removal of the ai

[Miauw]

Bottom post of the previous page:

remove ntsl then

[TheWiznard]

Meaning you have to use scripts for departmental comms is just a knowledge gate: anyone who uses MAGNI (or similar) can function just as effectively, and anyone who doesn't, can't. The "jump to X person" is one of the AI's most used tools, as well - not only for finding shifty Unknowns, but for "AI DOOR". Forcing camera light on as well as animation seems a little redundant - how about just the camera lights? That way if you're feeling paranoid, you can switch off the lights, and if the camera lights up, you know you're being watched.

Remember that the AI can be used by traitors as well as against them - subversion, for example.

The "jump to x person" is one of the AI's most used functions, I'm just saying maybe changing how it works would be more helpful than everyone on the removal train. If one of the "problems" people have with the AI is being able to jump to everyone at any time I don't see why it shouldn't be looked at just like every other thing. The AI can still "AI DOOR" just fine without being able to click on a little link in chat and zoom over to the person. It wasn't like this a year or two ago and I didn't have a problem opening doors for people then either. If you want the AI to open the door you better be prepared to say where you are and if you want to be sneaky beaky there are PDA's for a reason. I disagree with only having the lights on. I would lean more into the point of only have the camera animated when someone is looking through it. I think making cameras function off of either an APC's Equipment or Environment power would be a good addition too. Maybe make it so using the Overload lights button on APC's simultaneously breaks all cameras in a room. "b-but wiznard that seems awfully e-extreme!!" who cares you already have to be near the APC to do it and it's another easy way to stuff some "options" into people's throats who complain there isn't a way around it without investing telecrystals or whatever.

remove ntsl then

I'm pretty sure you should just remove it all together then, I almost never see anyone other than the AI/borg using tcomms, probably because 99% of ai's bolt the sat, but who needs it anyway? I'd be fine losing ntsl.

[Anonmare]

>Overloading lights breaks cameras
Absolutely not, the AI is one of the players who uses it the most and it doesn't make any sense, why would overloading the light network break the camera one when it's explicitly on a separate network? And breaking an entire area's cameras should not be THAT easy.
And removing NTSL limits the creativity a subverted/Rogue AI can have when it decides to make a move on it's objectives (For example, impersonating a person you've just killed over comms to take heat off of you. Plus you can be asked by an antag to mute someone which means that they may not even need to get mute sting/parapen), the only way I could be okay with that is if MAGNI was installed by default since it's just straight up too useful not to use.

But then again, with most of these nerfs it'd make playing AI a complete unfun chore and going back to making the interface clunkier is not going to stop Traitors from being caught. Being able to jump to anyone on comms is not instant anymore so I don't really see why it needs removing and if you break LoS with the AI's cameras then it can't see/know where you are and you really shouldn't be talking while you're dragging a body around unless you're somewhere private.

The AI's still a player at the end of the day and turning it into an unfun mess is going to drive away the good players who don't care if you're running around in a syndie spacesuit or not, and straight up removing roundstart AI is going to make Silicon/Sec relationships stronger since it's impossible for any AI made during the round to be malf or rogue conventionally and gives little reason for sec to distrust it. Especially if they decide to robocop it during the construction.

[Miauw]

ntsl is only ever used as a free powergame pack by AIs, takes literally no effort at all, just copypaste and youre done.

[Deitus]

It's called the initial butt hurt effect, any large change will suffer it.
Remember the UI change!

i think there's a biiiiiiit of a difference between a ui change and removal of one of ss13's most iconic and important roles. if you guys really want the ai gone that bad, didnt scones or someone suggest we make a "bridge crew" job class that monitors shit and does ai stuff? you guys aren't even offering alternatives for the ai, its just "remove it nao"

[Anonmare]

ntsl is only ever used as a free powergame pack by AIs, takes literally no effort at all, just copypaste and youre done.

Convenience is powergaming now? It's most useful function in my opinion is improving the AI's verbosity so you can get out a lot of information as quickly as possible. Saves either taking too long typing that the danger's gone or playing 20 questions with the crew for every alert.

[PKPenguin321]

i think you're taking this a little bit personally, incomptinence
have you tried taking deep breaths

well its kind of frustrating when your only reply is "b-but the ai shits on every roundtype...!" without any other reasoning, and now you're pulling the "lol calm down dude" thing?

i kinda stopped reading here
we're long since past the part where we say why we need to remove the AI (trial removing it, even). we've proven our point several times already and restating it to people like you who won't listen won't do anything. in a nutshell, though, AI does really make a lot of rounds unfun by outing antags really early on/other bullshit, and sitting around in science with fourty durands and your finger in your ass because the round has no antags is really boring.

you're either stupider than i thought you were or just a really bad troll. or both.

deep breaths

[Deitus]

i think you're taking this a little bit personally, incomptinence
have you tried taking deep breaths

well its kind of frustrating when your only reply is "b-but the ai shits on every roundtype...!" without any other reasoning, and now you're pulling the "lol calm down dude" thing?

i kinda stopped reading here
we're long since past the part where we say why we need to remove the AI (trial removing it, even). we've proven our point several times already and restating it to people like you who won't listen won't do anything. in a nutshell, though, AI does really make a lot of rounds unfun by outing antags really early on/other bullshit, and sitting around in science with fourty durands and your finger in your ass because the round has no antags is really boring.

you're either stupider than i thought you were or just a really bad troll. or both.

deep breaths

how do you "prove" the ai needs to be removed? that is literally a subjective argument. there is no "proving" it.

basically you're deciding to not so much as skim over a potential arguments addressing the points you've made and refusing to engage in any actual meaningful dialogue, instead falling back on the "y-you're just mad, bro...!" routine.

can't say i expected anything else.

[Actionb]

Pretty much this:

Let them go ahead and take the AI out for a bit. They'll realize how fucking dumb it is and revert back to the standard in no time. It'll be like when they made silicons mute for awhile, or that time when some people wanted metastation to replace Box. What a riot!

I really have no idea where you guys get the impression that the AI skullfucks antags in every round.
I still see murderboning traitors, dominating ling teams, gangs turning the station into the wild west... be it during high pop or low pop.
I also see lots of traitors just doing jack shit and ending the round with 0 tc spent - or cultists/gang heads being dumb fucks and outing themselves somehow in plain sight 5 minutes in. The AI is not always the cause for a boring round.
It's all too dependant on the players behind the AI/antags.

And for those that want to remove roundstart AI forever:
This may have the same effect as no-antag sec. AI cannot be a traitor - you can trust the AI. Whenever the AI is a traitor there is always the uncertainty whether or not a simple purge+lawboard is sufficient to unfuck the AI. Without traitor AIs this will work 100% of the time since the only unremovable law is the 0. Achieve your objectives at all costs. Very boring.