Saltball's Grab Nerf

[MisterPerson]

Bottom post of the previous page:

There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

[PKPenguin321]

There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

>give a list of reasons
>"There's literally no reason"
thanks MisterReadingcomprehension

[Luke Cox]

There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

Comparing grab to pull is a total false equivalency and you know it. Pulling is for moving shit, grab is for combat.

[Malkevin]

Speaking of shitty prs, the Neurotoxin nerf disguised as a tweak https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16404. Literally why.

Glad that didn't get merged, it would've made the first six units of either chemical useless and would've taken about 30 seconds for them to actually do anything useful.

[Super Aggro Crag]

people like pull because it lets you move people faster. Pull doesn't let you choke or table people, and tabling people is 90 percent of byond unarmed combat

[confused rock]

>golem tasked to kick zoey out
>zoey is literally just running into a wall, not dodging or pushing me away
>cannot get a chokehold because they resist out of an aggressive grab instantly, its a chore to even table them
good job

[Cheimon]

Grabbing provides a much more clear interface for what's going on. It shows that you connected, it tells you who you connected to, and it makes it really easy to upgrade it (just press a button).

Pulling is much less clear: either my ctrl key doesn't always work (unlikely) or byond doesn't always register it, because I know I've had situations where I've clicked to pull something, walked away, and then realised it wasn't properly triggered. It's not as obviously easy to upgrade (no pressing z, I probably need to pull their sprite to mine if grab is fully replaced with the system, which would take twice as long). Grab is also unambiguous, you can only grab people. I can pull anything, and often if there's an invisible overlay then it's quite easy to pull the wrong thing and have to move to spot it (whereas in grabs, that item's easy to drop immediately).

These are all very small differences, but in the context of combat, they mean a lot. Pulling provides much worse feedback and is ever so slightly more fiddly.

And why the hell did grabbing need to be possible to resist out of, anyway? Moving to get out was the whole point. If you couldn't move, you were in a confined space, and having grabs being better in confined areas was the point of not having a resist option.

[Luke Cox]

I mean, what's the issue with grab as it exists? It's only really used for humanoid to humanoid combat anyways, and it functions as intended. If it's such a pain in the ass, just don't use it for anything new.

[Lumbermancer]

So no one honestly thinks it was too easy to table people before?

[Super Aggro Crag]

if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

[Malkevin]

if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

And you could run around with table parts and slap them down instantly.

[Lumbermancer]

if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

I said too easy, not easy. Personally I could hardly pull it off because of ping pong, but avoiding it was possible only with resist spam.

[PKPenguin321]

if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

I said too easy, not easy. Personally I could hardly pull it off because of ping pong, but avoiding it was possible only with resist spam.

>not installing a turbo script to turn the resist hotkey into a toggle that spams while active
have you tried getting good?

[Lumbermancer]

Reported for cheating.

[lumipharon]

There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

There is literally no reason to have both. food is generally more well liked than electricity.

There is no comparison. Grab does shit that pull does not. The ONLY thing where pull does something that grab also does (and does it better) is.... pulling people. WEW LAD.

[Luke Cox]

Can anybody refute the following: Grab is intended for combat, pull is intended for moving stuff

[TechnoAlchemist]

Pull has its place in combat, for moving shit, and grab has its place in combat for grappling with people.

[lumipharon]

Wew, it's almost as if pull is good for pulling, and grab is good for grabbing!

I mean, hell, I can appreciate that grab code is shit or whatever, but we had/had loads of shitcode in the game, why are people trying to utterly remove it when pull simply is not an adequate substitute for very significant situations?
Replacing grab for shit like putting someone in a disposal chute or whatever is fine, but for combat uses, no one has proposed how it would be adequately replaced.

[iamgoofball]

You do realize that by "remove grab" we mean "make pull do everything grab does and potentially just make the grab intent do pull shit" right

[Zilenan91]

But how would you do that intuitively, pulling is really fucking hard if not impossible to do in the middle of combat because it doesn't slow the other guy down and requires ctrl and click rather than just clicking

[iamgoofball]

Please re-read my post

[Zilenan91]

Yeah, and pull is just not intuitive for anything but pulling people. It is absolutely not something you can do in combat.

[iamgoofball]

You do realize that by "remove grab" we mean "make pull do everything grab does and potentially just make the grab intent do pull shit" right

[DemonFiren]

Which means, for all intents and purposes, that the two are switched (making grab useless for combat because it only pulls you and pulls are easy to escape from, and making pull useless for combat because ctrl-click memes), or that you're very bad at wording sentences.

[Bluespace]

there was no reason to nerf grab.
the table stun isn't even enough time to cuff someone.
and if you're worried about being tabled, don't stand by tables.

[Malkevin]

People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.

I hope your all get failure marks from school.

[iamgoofball]

People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.

I hope your all get failure marks from school.

[callanrockslol]

if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

And you could run around with table parts and slap them down instantly.

Running through maint yakkity saxing around BAM toss a table and the guy can't chase you anymore, then charge him later when he isn't expecting it, stunglove him, tabled for life and steal all his shit before dumping him in maint.

Someone should run a server on the old code that stuff was great.

[lumipharon]

People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.

I hope your all get failure marks from school.

That's called 'rewriting grab', not removing it.

[oranges]

goof's lying

it's going away

[callanrockslol]

Roll all of pulls functionality into passive grab yes/yes?

[lzimann]

This change is still shit(even after the last PR buffing a bit)

[PKPenguin321]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16673

[Yakumo_Chen]

Grab text is small again and it's hard to tell when you're grabbed again until its too late because the small red text blends in with everything else.

[PKPenguin321]

Grab text is small again and it's hard to tell when you're grabbed again until its too late because the small red text blends in with everything else.

grab text was never big at all, goof just made it bold instead of italic (and i never touched the grab text, only the values for breaking out, upgrading grabs, etc)