BLOODLOSS FUCKING SUCKS ASS

[tacolizard]

I hate bloodloss with a burning passion.

1. You get it at literally the worst times, usually when you are stuggling to survive and are heading to medbay
2. a shitton of incompetent doctors have no clue how to treat bloodloss
3. blood and iv drips are locked behind like 4 doors
4. if you break in because doctors are incompetent, you get arrested
5. there's literally no way to heal it other than IVs
6. No matter how much blood you lose, as soon as you go over some arbitrary bloodloss threshold, you get the full effects
7. you shouldnt infinitely take damage while you are low on blood, it makes no sense.
8. you should take damage related to the amount of blood you lost, it shouldn't stack until you die

9. YOU BETTER CROSS YO FUCKING FINGERS THEY GOT BLOOD BAGS LEFT, OR ELSE YOU'RE DEAD



this was kind of a shitpost, here are my more sensible complaints:
1. A bit more warning before you take absurd damage would be nice.
2. I still believe that at a certain point you should stop taking bloodloss damage. sure it might not be realistic, but you shouldn't die if you've only lost a bit of blood over the 'death-threshold'. If you haven't lost almost all your blood, you should only be severly damaged, not killed.

[iamgoofball]

[cedarbridge]

I hate bloodloss with a burning passion.

1. You get it at literally the worst times, usually when you are stuggling to survive and are heading to medbay
2. a shitton of incompetent doctors have no clue how to treat bloodloss
3. blood and iv drips are locked behind like 4 doors
4. if you break in because doctors are incompetent, you get arrested
5. there's literally no way to heal it other than IVs
6. No matter how much blood you lose, as soon as you go over some arbitrary bloodloss threshold, you get the full effects
7. you shouldnt infinitely take damage while you are low on blood, it makes no sense.
8. you should take damage related to the amount of blood you lost, it shouldn't stack until you die

9. YOU BETTER CROSS YO FUCKING FINGERS THEY GOT BLOOD BAGS LEFT, OR ELSE YOU'RE DEAD

1) thepoint.jpg
2) Not an argument. Medical treatment should be a skill like anything else. Our medbay in its current form is almost infantile in its effort-to-heal status so complaining that you died to some thing that requires even basic knowledge to heal is pretty wew my dude.
3) Box requires one door with medbay access, two assuming you couldn't get yourself into medbay in the first place. The drips are behind one door without special medbay access. So you're really just talking out your ass on this one.
4) Good. Moonlighting not allowed.
5) What is Iron? What is Saline? What is passive regeneration? The last is much slower and the other two are either regen enhancers or bandaids respectively. thepoint.jpg
6) Not true. After a certain level you "turn pale" indicating to anyone who examines you that you're suffering bloodloss that requires treatment. Generally this means you get bandaged or you get treatment to raise your health above 30, which also stops bleeding.
7) You shouldn't infinitely take damage while you're low on oxygen, it makes no sense. In other news, education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypovolemia
8) All this would do is add stages leading up to the current benchmark. We already have minor effects for lesser bloodloss. They're just not severe enough that most people notice them apart from "oh, I'm bleeding on things" until you hit the severe benchmark.
9) Almost never an issue. Saline and Iron are already the go-to treatment when there's a real blood shortage. There was also a proposed change to blood regen that would make blood drives more practical since you currently have to take enough blood from a donor to almost put them into hypovolemic shock just to fill a bag for later use and the donor spends a ton of the remaining round regenerating from the donation. A slight buff to blood regeneration would probably be ok, or at least a slight buff to iron's blood regen enhancement.

Apart from that, get good. Bloodloss was meant to be a bad thing.

[CPTANT]

Salt besides, I do think blood should regenerate faster on its own than it does now.

And drips should probably work faster too.

AND WHY THE F DO I GET POISON DAMAGE FROM INJECTING O+ BLOOD.

At least iirc infusing blood types that are not the same but SHOULD be compatible with the recipient still give you toxic damage.

[Atlanta-Ned]

[DemonFiren]

AND WHY THE F DO I GET POISON DAMAGE FROM INJECTING O+ BLOOD.

because you are rhesus factor negative

[Swindly]

Food restores blood faster than iron does.

AND WHY THE F DO I GET POISON DAMAGE FROM INJECTING O+ BLOOD.

Negative recipients get toxin from positive donors.

[Cobby]

suicides are a great tool to extract blood from. That and monkey cubes.

[D&B]

Isn't O- the universal donor?

Not sure if O+ shares

[DemonFiren]

Isn't O- the universal donor?

Not sure if O+ shares

- works if you're +
+ doesn't work if you're -

[CPTANT]

Ohw yeah I meant O-, but I am pretty sure I got toxic damage while having A+ as blood and injecting O+

[Shaps-cloud]

You can also use an epi pen to cap out oxyloss and prevent suffocation, in addition to regenerating blood faster by nutrient and iron

Issue just seems to be that you're dumb

I think there may be some weird cases where blood was doing damage in the wrong cases though

[Lazengann]

I actually really like blood loss, it makes treating people a little more fun. It's easy to feel useless as a doctor when whoever brings in an injured guy pops him in the sleeper or cryo, so blood loss is nice.

[Qbopper]

>the feature designed to be an important threat and a shitty situation for the victim is doing its job

I don't see the problem

[Super Aggro Crag]

I wanna inject a person with extra blood so they bloodpuke and blood comes out their eyes and if you shoot him he explodes into a bloodsplosion

[InsaneHyena]

AND WHY THE F DO I GET POISON DAMAGE FROM INJECTING O+ BLOOD.

What did he mean by this?

[FantasticFwoosh]

Because lizards are non-compatible with O+ bloodtypes for a extra level of racial difference, they have L+ blood. Just harvest lizard suicides or take ashwalker blood whatever.

[confused rock]

the only way we gonna fuckin cure everyone in medbay being dumber than the average assistant is making incompetence punishable

[Lumbermancer]

5) What is Iron? What is Saline? What is passive regeneration? The last is much slower and the other two are either regen enhancers or bandaids respectively. thepoint.jpg

Don't nutrients increase blood recovery as well?

[cedarbridge]

5) What is Iron? What is Saline? What is passive regeneration? The last is much slower and the other two are either regen enhancers or bandaids respectively. thepoint.jpg

Don't nutrients increase blood recovery as well?

Yep, I always recruit the cook to help out with blood drives.

[confused rock]

that reminds me, iron requires a competent chemist to get enough of for it to work, and saline is fucking harder to get than a blood bag with drip

[FantasticFwoosh]

that reminds me, iron requires a competent chemist to get enough of for it to work, and saline is fucking harder to get than a blood bag with drip

You can literally dispense ground up iron from chemistry as one of the options in the chem dispenser. Literally what.

[Alipheese]

Eat food you fucking shithead.

[cedarbridge]

that reminds me, iron requires a competent chemist to get enough of for it to work, and saline is fucking harder to get than a blood bag with drip

Its literally a single button.

Saline requires 4 buttons.

[oranges]

that reminds me, iron requires a competent chemist to get enough of for it to work, and saline is fucking harder to get than a blood bag with drip

Its literally a single button.

he really is confused

[confused rock]

its literally a single button that NO CHEMISTS PRESS

[Iatots]

Someone should probably add like 1-2u iron to steaks and such.

[bandit]

saline isn't hard to get, there's a bunch of it in this thread

[Dr_bee]

Using saline to replace blood needs a buff. At the moment it is barely worth using as it only replaces blood at a 1:1 ratio. Saline should have you keep the oxyloss and slowdown but prevent you from passing out completely to simulate the patient not having insanely low blood pressure.

At the moment, even with critical cases it is better to shove 50 units of iron into them and load em up on salbutamol than it is to use a saline drip.

[Swindly]

it only replaces blood at a 1:1 ratio.

1 unit of saline-glucose solution has an expected blood restoration amount of 0.33 units of blood plus up to 0.75 units if it was injected.
1 unit of iron restores 1.25 units of blood.

[Super Aggro Crag]

saline isn't hard to get, there's a bunch of it in this thread

High quality service

[Dr_bee]

it only replaces blood at a 1:1 ratio.

1 unit of saline-glucose solution has an expected blood restoration amount of 0.33 units of blood plus up to 0.75 units if it was injected.
1 unit of iron restores 1.25 units of blood.

so it is even worse than I thought.

ugh, why is the one click chem more powerful than the actual drug used to treat blood loss.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Probably the coder forgot you could get it from a chem machine, and so thought that since metal is a pain in the ass to harvest & grind down they could get away with bumping it up.

[Swindly]

ugh, why is the one click chem more powerful than the actual drug used to treat blood loss.

Because saline-glucose solution also heals brute and burn damage.

[Iatots]

Also salty/sugary water isn't the best at carrying oxygen,you need to make more red cells and that's where the iron come in.
Blood doping traitor kits when?

[Shaps-cloud]

alternatively... you could just inject them with blood

[FantasticFwoosh]

alternatively... you could just inject them with blood

As this thread shows, the gross incompetency of most players to neither do simple routine checks, know your blood groups and actually read what blood group people are before pumping yourself up with the dummyproof O+ then crying it's poisoning you because you're a lizard or O-/other then pretty much ragequit on the blood system altogether and make this thread.

Its the same reason the stethoscope & the mass spectrometer does work, but is never ever used , since i can't remember if there's even a explicit purpose for the mass spectrometer since the health scanner can scan reagents, unless its for identifying blood bourne invisible diseases. That and the stethoscope is a arpee & low tech oxygen loss detector. The health analyser makes those pretty much redundant because its a really good tool you have to point out to players to use.

- Oh yeah now i remember, the spectrometer allows you to analyse blood like a health scanner without actually being in the body, eehhhh if that makes sense (aka i forgot to label this virus, im locked outside virology, let me check this isn't a dangerous sample)

IV drip with iron, would it literally just work better for universal blood regeneration if people are non critical but feeling a little bit pale.

[Xhagi]

>playing sec medic
>healing sec, but also heal prisoners from their daily baton beatings
>have to hold one assistant in the medical brig area to keep sec off him
>oh he lost a lot of blood
>oh I'm the same blood type
>set up an empty bag, donate some of my blood to it, enough that it won't really hurt me, transfuse to him
>mutual respect established
>send the assistant on his way (between all the beatings and time spent healing he served his time anyway)

Blood loss is a fun mechanic to an already light medical system. It atleast makes the depth of the system a bit more than a brute patch puddle.

[confused rock]

Naaah, its annoying for a light system and uninteresting and only sort of works with a heavy one(but even then it is too annoying to heal naturally)
Dismemberment in a light system? Great, it cripples you, but it doesnt take much to SURVIVE it, and you might get a robo limb or steal an arm from a perma prisoner or something, requiring mds to be competent and do surgery.
This kind of bleending? Shit, it doesnt cripple you, but it slowly kills you which you counter by stealing all the salbutamol from oxygen kits. You NEED a doctor to survive it, and if the surgery fridge was all access you wouldnt need them-the doctor is actually just a walking id.

[Qbopper]

You NEED a doctor to survive it, and if the surgery fridge was all access you wouldnt need them-the doctor is actually just a walking id.

first part I see no problem with, doctors are already a meme and having something that makes you interact with them is good

second part, yeah, but if we made it so you needed help to hook up an IV people would probably be pissy about it

[cedarbridge]

You NEED a doctor to survive it

Good, fuck self-healing.

[Shaps-cloud]

Naaah, its annoying for a light system and uninteresting and only sort of works with a heavy one(but even then it is too annoying to heal naturally)
Dismemberment in a light system? Great, it cripples you, but it doesnt take much to SURVIVE it, and you might get a robo limb or steal an arm from a perma prisoner or something, requiring mds to be competent and do surgery.
This kind of bleending? Shit, it doesnt cripple you, but it slowly kills you which you counter by stealing all the salbutamol from oxygen kits. You NEED a doctor to survive it, and if the surgery fridge was all access you wouldnt need them-the doctor is actually just a walking id.

Again, you straight up don't understand the mechanic you're whining about. Like I said before, you can just use the epipens that everyone get and are stashed all around the station's emergency lockers to stabilize yourself until you can get it treated either by blood infusion (not even necessarily from medbay, anyone with a syringe and a buddy can do it) or by just eating food

[FantasticFwoosh]

Not convenient & is a different type of oxygen loss damage that actually makes epi-pens interesting to use other than (im dying, lets just pop my revival pen) = Cries.

The sources to replenishing blood are usually all around you if you care to look, but i sympathise that it's a panicky situation and makes it slower to re-engage in a crisis if you're in downtime getting a blood transfusion so you can return to normal in medbay.

[confused rock]

You NEED a doctor to survive it

Good, fuck self-healing.

>Complain about nobody being able to stop murderboners on lowpop
>don't want people to be able to recover from murderboners causing blood loss on lowpop
>want the victims to suffer the consequences no matter what if doctors are incompetent while the md gets off scot free

[Qbopper]

You NEED a doctor to survive it

Good, fuck self-healing.

>Complain about nobody being able to stop murderboners on lowpop
>don't want people to be able to recover from murderboners causing blood loss on lowpop
>want the victims to suffer the consequences no matter what if doctors are incompetent while the md gets off scot free

>implying lowpop murderboners leave people wounded

this is a complete strawman argument, dude

[Oldman Robustin]

I opened a PR to refactor blood yesterday but it got meme'd by the "BALANCE" police until freeze is over.

TL;DR: Bleeding is incredibly arbitrary and you can bleed out in 30 seconds or 10 minutes depending on how your damage is distributed. Brute damage to a single body part exponentially increases blood loss and I will be fixing it immediately after the freeze so you aren't dying of incredibly rapid blood loss.

I might also make blood loss a little more forgiving. Taking oxyloss damage at 10% blood loss is a bit silly.

[cedarbridge]

You NEED a doctor to survive it

Good, fuck self-healing.

>Complain about nobody being able to stop murderboners on lowpop
>don't want people to be able to recover from murderboners causing blood loss on lowpop
>want the victims to suffer the consequences no matter what if doctors are incompetent while the md gets off scot free

Are you regularly assaulted by vampires on lowpop? Again, fuck self-healing.

[Cobby]

This is not early 2000 we are no longer coding the game with the intention that the features work great with 5-10 people playing it. Lowpop understands this, hence why they ask for more administration-based support on lowpop rather than coding solutions to fix murderbones.

With that said, bloodloss should be actually LowPop friendly as you can simply wound the baddie enough for them to bleed until they reach the "I am fugged" stage and secure medbay, winning a war of attrition.

[confused rock]

again, doctors are incredibly shitty and I haven't had a positive experience with them in ages (I have with assistant surgeons though and rarely robomen)

[BeeSting12]

I would support Robustin's PR to fix this. It's pretty dumb that a revolver shot to the chest bleeds you out superfast and getting sliced up everywhere doesn't take as long