Escape pods shouldn't exist

[Slignerd]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Have we gotten to the point where we want to deny people's greentext so much that we're going to change how the game handles greentexts?

[CPTANT]

Pods shouldn't go to a centcom ship or centcom.
They are
ESCAPE
POTS
For a reason. They are to get the fuck out of the station not complete your objective. If you want to complete your objective. A la get to centcom as thats been the final product of greentexting so far as the only way to greentexting is escaping. Which all the escape methods are going to centcom.
Require the shuttle to greentext.

The shuttle shouldn't go to a centcom ship or centcom.
It is an
ESCAPE
SHUTTLE
For a reason.

but seriously if you consider that the objective in question is called ESCAPE ALIVE your whole logic falls apart

Who cares about the wording anyway, its about the gameplay.

[Shaps-cloud]

To give people alternate choices for when the main shuttle is getting bombed/eaten by the engine/hijacked/a bloodbath/too noisy or otherwise undesirable. The shuttle is already one of the biggest bloodbaths because it's trivially easy to bomb/set on fire, not everyone wants every round to end like that

I mean obviously some people are going to avoid the shuttle if it's more dangerous, but isn't danger the whole point of the shuttle to begin with? Wouldn't it be smarter to force people to live dangerously since that's more fun for everyone involved? And if the shuttle's chaos isn't fun for people, then why is it like that?

because what used to be a game where 30 people was considered highpop now regularly hits 80 people, and forcing 80 people into a tight space where all it takes to kill everyone is one person with a flamethrower/bomb/chem grenade/pair of bags of holding/whatever every single round is the kind of "fun chaos" that's more like an unfun admin event.

[kevinz000]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

[CPTANT]

To give people alternate choices for when the main shuttle is getting bombed/eaten by the engine/hijacked/a bloodbath/too noisy or otherwise undesirable. The shuttle is already one of the biggest bloodbaths because it's trivially easy to bomb/set on fire, not everyone wants every round to end like that

I mean obviously some people are going to avoid the shuttle if it's more dangerous, but isn't danger the whole point of the shuttle to begin with? Wouldn't it be smarter to force people to live dangerously since that's more fun for everyone involved? And if the shuttle's chaos isn't fun for people, then why is it like that?

because what used to be a game where 30 people was considered highpop now regularly hits 80 people, and forcing 80 people into a tight space where all it takes to kill everyone is one person with a flamethrower/bomb/chem grenade/pair of bags of holding/whatever every single round is the kind of "fun chaos" that's more like an unfun admin event.

I don't really see how a couple of people surviving totally isolated from everything else for 2 more minutes makes such a scenario any more interesting.

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

There is literally nothing stopping them from doing so now either.

[XDTM]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

If there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to prevent a traitor from maxcapping a shuttle even with an alert sec department i think the problem may lie in toxins

[Shaps-cloud]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

If there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to prevent a traitor from maxcapping a shuttle even with an alert sec department i think the problem may lie in toxins

or chem grenades that can create maxcaps/hellfoam/hellsmoke
or a syndiebomb core with C4
or a flamethrower
or burning stacks of plasma that are very easy to snag from cargo/engineering
or bags of holding which make a singulo

killing lots of people who are all grouped up together is trivial in SS13

[cedarbridge]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

Remove syndibombs.
Remove high explosive chemistry.
Remove toxins/tank transfer valves/canister explosion.
Remove supermatter.

It exists, therefore it will be used.

Remove toolboxes

[CPTANT]

Or scale escape shuttle size with population size.

[MisterPerson]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

The round ends 2 minutes later, who gives a shit?

[Shaps-cloud]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

The round ends 2 minutes later, who gives a shit?

People who were invested in the round and want to see their characters make it out alive? Have you forgotten this is a roleplaying game almost completely based on trying to survive in adverse conditions?

[bandit]

unfortunately with the breeding of the play-to-win mindset and the proliferation of meme ghost roles to make death meaningless, that isn't a thing here

[DrPillzRedux]

>waaah pods are just antag tools let's get rid of them

Fuck off, I love using pods during code red and delta. Greentext means nothing and you're getting salty over it.

[PKPenguin321]

Struggling against strangers to get a seat on the pod with seconds to go on the clock is a rush and shouldn't be removed

[CPTANT]

Struggling against strangers to get a seat on the pod with seconds to go on the clock is a rush and shouldn't be removed

Except everyone just rests on the ground and everyone fits in anyway.

[CPTANT]

>waaah pods are just antag tools let's get rid of them

Fuck off, I love using pods during code red and delta. Greentext means nothing and you're getting salty over it.

Please stop pretending objectives aren't a part of the traitor gamemode.

[Screemonster]

>waaah pods are just antag tools let's get rid of them

Fuck off, I love using pods during code red and delta. Greentext means nothing and you're getting salty over it.

Please stop pretending objectives aren't a part of the traitor gamemode.

It's more that you shouldn't take it personally if the round-end text says that some dude managed to complete his objectives
Unless you have objectives, objectives mean nothing.

Feel free to be salty if in the process of getting dat greentext a traitor decided to murder you and hide you in a locker or whatever or something else that actually affects you (in as much as you can be affected by a sprite in a video game) but "that guy over there had some green words at the end of the round instead of red ones" should not make you mad. If you're a nonantag then your "objectives" are whatever you want them to be and could be anything from "survive the round" to "build an autism fort"
Unlike a directly competitive game, one player winning doesn't necessarily mean the other players inherently "lose"

[CPTANT]

>waaah pods are just antag tools let's get rid of them

Fuck off, I love using pods during code red and delta. Greentext means nothing and you're getting salty over it.

Please stop pretending objectives aren't a part of the traitor gamemode.

It's more that you shouldn't take it personally if the round-end text says that some dude managed to complete his objectives
Unless you have objectives, objectives mean nothing.

Feel free to be salty if in the process of getting dat greentext a traitor decided to murder you and hide you in a locker or whatever or something else that actually affects you (in as much as you can be affected by a sprite in a video game) but "that guy over there had some green words at the end of the round instead of red ones" should not make you mad. If you're a nonantag then your "objectives" are whatever you want them to be and could be anything from "survive the round" to "build an autism fort"
Unlike a directly competitive game, one player winning doesn't necessarily mean the other players inherently "lose"

But I dislike how easy it is to escape when I AM the traitor. Escape pod escapes just trivialize this aspect of your objectives.

[Shaps-cloud]

Then



Dont





Take

A







Pod?????

[CPTANT]

Then



Dont





Take

A







Pod?????

Balance based around artificially gimping yourself is shit.

[Shaps-cloud]

The entire game is not based around traitors who simultaneously want the "challenge" of having to ride the shuttle but don't have the will to just do it themselves, there are other legitimate uses for escape pods like when the shuttle is rendered unusable, and bizarre suggestions like "dynamically make the shuttle bigger based on pop size" don't get around that

[tacolizard]

why would they be salt that escape pods exist?

Because it's pretty obvious that they're upset that pods prevented them from denying some nerd a green text in a round.

no. That's not true.

[CPTANT]

The entire game is not based around traitors who simultaneously want the "challenge" of having to ride the shuttle but don't have the will to just do it themselves, there are other legitimate uses for escape pods like when the shuttle is rendered unusable, and bizarre suggestions like "dynamically make the shuttle bigger based on pop size" don't get around that

Yes and pods launching to lavaland on red/delta and end of round is just fine.

[BeeSting12]

Tacolizard: On the forums, I didn't really mean they SHOULD be removed, I was more just trying to start a conversation. Anyways, it's worth a testmerge

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/26759

[kevinz000]

Please do tell me how anyone is going to prevent antags from maxcapping every round for the memes.

The round ends 2 minutes later, who gives a shit?

1. What Shaps said. This is horseshit coming from me (For the new guys I'm regarded as a powergamer) but there's something about your IC character you know, probably caring about their life?
2. People do care on an OOC level too. It's not fun going to the escape shuttle just to get blown up later because it's the only way to escape and every traitor wants to ruin as many people's rounds as possible for their own enjoyment even if their objectives go against or don't require it. If people didn't care about "round ends 2 minutes later who cares about surviving the ride" why would they even bother boarding the shuttle to escape alive?
3. The antags who want greentext.

Also, when I say maxcap I meant every way there is of mass murdering a packed group of people. Competent security team XDTM? If you pack the most combat-robust and powergamey people into a security team there's still no way they're going to make sure the crew which is likely 6-10 times bigger is going to be completely searched. You know the player mindset, not alot of people will cooperate if security goes "HEY, CHECKPOINTS HERE, GET SEARCHED OR NO PASSAGE TO THE SHUTTLE!". It makes sense to do so if escape pods don't exist but no, security will never have the level of competence, cooperation, and manpower/sheer force to pull it off and you'll just have people breaking into the shuttle and doing it anyways.
Also, security team preventing this from happening? So what's to stop someone from buying a hardsuit, and a syndiebomb, and doing it from space? Or just throwing a grenade lance of 300/300 from science? Or any of the other ways of griefing the shuttle? They can just get their PDA out and spawn it in flight if they wanted and they're fast about wrenching it down.

tl;dr if you didn't read my rant without escape shuttles antags will just mass kill everyone on the shuttle for fun and there'll be no counter but voluntarily stranding yourself on the station which is not what people would like to do on an IC and OOC level because if no one wanted to escape why would we have a shuttle.

[kevinz000]

Or scale escape shuttle size with population size.

Maxcap is 5/10/20.
A shuttle big enough to prevent someone from destroying it for the maymays isn't going to fit.

[BeeSting12]

Or scale escape shuttle size with population size.

Maxcap is 5/10/20.
A shuttle big enough to prevent someone from destroying it for the maymays isn't going to fit.

how is a maxcap relevant to the shuttle size. salty over getting greentext denied by a maxcapping traitor?

[MisterPerson]

tl;dr if you didn't read my rant without escape shuttles antags will just mass kill everyone on the shuttle for fun and there'll be no counter but voluntarily stranding yourself on the station which is not what people would like to do on an IC and OOC level because if no one wanted to escape why would we have a shuttle.

Then the shuttle is the one that should be removed, or at least rethought.

[kevinz000]

tl;dr if you didn't read my rant without escape shuttles antags will just mass kill everyone on the shuttle for fun and there'll be no counter but voluntarily stranding yourself on the station which is not what people would like to do on an IC and OOC level because if no one wanted to escape why would we have a shuttle.

Then the shuttle is the one that should be removed, or at least rethought.

oh god why

[BeeSting12]

tl;dr if you didn't read my rant without escape shuttles antags will just mass kill everyone on the shuttle for fun and there'll be no counter but voluntarily stranding yourself on the station which is not what people would like to do on an IC and OOC level because if no one wanted to escape why would we have a shuttle.

Then the shuttle is the one that should be removed, or at least rethought.

whats to stop me from putting maxcaps on each pod in smugglers satchels. (I've done this before and did the shuttle, no survivors)

[CPTANT]

Like said before, pods in no way prevent a traitor from maxcapping the shuttle once it is in transit.

[XDTM]

Exactly, it's not like traitors that would maxcap/murderbone the shuttle stop doing it because there might be people in pods, it's irrelevant.

[MisterPerson]

Like said before, pods in no way prevent a traitor from maxcapping the shuttle once it is in transit.

What I mean is that if getting maxcapped on the shuttle isn't fun, then the pods don't really fix the problem.

[Shaps-cloud]

Like said before, pods in no way prevent a traitor from maxcapping the shuttle once it is in transit.

Exactly, it's not like traitors that would maxcap/murderbone the shuttle stop doing it because there might be people in pods, it's irrelevant.

Like said before, pods in no way prevent a traitor from maxcapping the shuttle once it is in transit.

What I mean is that if getting maxcapped on the shuttle isn't fun, then the pods don't really fix the problem.

the difference is not everyone is gonna get exploded because some of them took a risk to go on a pod

[XDTM]

Like said before, pods in no way prevent a traitor from maxcapping the shuttle once it is in transit.

Exactly, it's not like traitors that would maxcap/murderbone the shuttle stop doing it because there might be people in pods, it's irrelevant.

Like said before, pods in no way prevent a traitor from maxcapping the shuttle once it is in transit.

What I mean is that if getting maxcapped on the shuttle isn't fun, then the pods don't really fix the problem.

the difference is not everyone is gonna get exploded because some of them took a risk to go on a pod

Since the presence of pods doesn't really affect the chances of the shuttle getting bombed (the kind of traitor that takes a pod to ensure greentext is not going to blow it with a shuttlebomb), i still think it's irrelevant.

And few people surviving shuttlebombs doesn't make them less destructive, if they actually happened every round it would still be a problem, pods or not.

[Shaps-cloud]

I've lost track of what you're arguing

Escape pods offer a more secluded way of escaping where there's less people around (and thus less risk of getting maxcapped/destroyed by some other AOE threat) but mean there's less bystanders to intervene if an antag walks up and decides to double tap you.

I don't know why you people are turning this into an argument about whether the shuttle or toxins should be changed

[MisterPerson]

I've lost track of what you're arguing

Escape pods offer a more secluded way of escaping where there's less people around (and thus less risk of getting maxcapped/destroyed by some other AOE threat) but mean there's less bystanders to intervene if an antag walks up and decides to double tap you.

I don't know why you people are turning this into an argument about whether the shuttle or toxins should be changed

I don't consider these to be two equal options. The pods are significantly safer than the shuttle but also much less interesting as a result. If a gameplay feature can be described as "boring", it's probably flawed.

[captain sawrge]

I've lost track of what you're arguing

Escape pods offer a more secluded way of escaping where there's less people around (and thus less risk of getting maxcapped/destroyed by some other AOE threat) but mean there's less bystanders to intervene if an antag walks up and decides to double tap you.

I don't know why you people are turning this into an argument about whether the shuttle or toxins should be changed

I don't consider these to be two equal options. The pods are significantly safer than the shuttle but also much less interesting as a result. If a gameplay feature can be described as "boring", it's probably flawed.

Wrong!

[bman]

I've lost track of what you're arguing

Escape pods offer a more secluded way of escaping where there's less people around (and thus less risk of getting maxcapped/destroyed by some other AOE threat) but mean there's less bystanders to intervene if an antag walks up and decides to double tap you.

I don't know why you people are turning this into an argument about whether the shuttle or toxins should be changed

I don't consider these to be two equal options. The pods are significantly safer than the shuttle but also much less interesting as a result. If a gameplay feature can be described as "boring", it's probably flawed.

Wrong!

>tells him he's wrong

>doesn't give any evidence or even explain their reasoning as to why he's wrong

[Armhulen]

I've lost track of what you're arguing

Escape pods offer a more secluded way of escaping where there's less people around (and thus less risk of getting maxcapped/destroyed by some other AOE threat) but mean there's less bystanders to intervene if an antag walks up and decides to double tap you.

I don't know why you people are turning this into an argument about whether the shuttle or toxins should be changed

I don't consider these to be two equal options. The pods are significantly safer than the shuttle but also much less interesting as a result. If a gameplay feature can be described as "boring", it's probably flawed.

Wrong!

>tells him he's wrong

>doesn't give any evidence or even explain their reasoning as to why he's wrong

Wrong!

[tacolizard]

>waaah pods are just antag tools let's get rid of them

Fuck off, I love using pods during code red and delta. Greentext means nothing and you're getting salty over it.

Please stop pretending objectives aren't a part of the traitor gamemode.

It's more that you shouldn't take it personally if the round-end text says that some dude managed to complete his objectives
Unless you have objectives, objectives mean nothing.

Feel free to be salty if in the process of getting dat greentext a traitor decided to murder you and hide you in a locker or whatever or something else that actually affects you (in as much as you can be affected by a sprite in a video game) but "that guy over there had some green words at the end of the round instead of red ones" should not make you mad. If you're a nonantag then your "objectives" are whatever you want them to be and could be anything from "survive the round" to "build an autism fort"
Unlike a directly competitive game, one player winning doesn't necessarily mean the other players inherently "lose"

But I dislike how easy it is to escape when I AM the traitor. Escape pod escapes just trivialize this aspect of your objectives.

This is what this post is about. It has nothing to do with 'im salty cause antag got his greentext'. It's because escape pods are fun for nobody, neither the traitor or the crew.

[bandit]

A large part of this, honestly, is admins not banning anymore for shuttle griff

[Slignerd]

> banning antags for shuttle griff

why would admins do that?

[Armhulen]

> banning antags for antagonizing

why would admins do that?

[Cobby]

did admins for realsies do this