Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it gets in

[ma44]

original pr here
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/27099

As of right now, exporting 100 sheets of any mineral (as it uses amount) will instantly make it valued at 1 point and will take about 33.3(!) minutes to actually get back up to 100%, which is a bit stupid considering thats like 1/4 - 1/2 the round

[Armhulen]

How will Harry Robinson ever recover?

[iamgoofball]

it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something

[Cobby]

Have you considered selling something else?

[or stocks]

[ohnopigeons]

it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something

>100 sheets will saturate the market

What kind of fucking market is this?

[Grazyn]

Not really the market but the demand of Centcom. "Alright you sent 100 plasma, that's enough for now, send something else"
Reminder that SS13 isn't a mining station, it's a research station. You're not sending minerals in bulk, you're sending samples of the ores found on Lavaland, and prototypes of the new stuff you're researching. Miners should be more accurately called "prospectors", they're prospecting the planet below for further exploitation by NT: if the minerals are deemed viable, NT is probably just going to drop a massive mining network and strip mine the whole planet.

[ohnopigeons]

The main export IS plasma. The research station simply doubles as a hub for mining activities. The mining base and the miners are part of the mining network and strip mining, they simply can't increase in scale because Lavaland is too hazardous.

[Grazyn]

NT has access to military-grade equipment and weaponry that far surpass those available on SS13, I doubt they would consider lavaland monsters and even megafauna "hazardous" given that a basic trained civilian miner can easily deal with them. The crew is there to find out if it's actually worth it.

Plasma has always been available in large quantities on the station, either in gas, liquid or solid form, the main purpose isn't to export it but to research on it.

[ohnopigeons]

That's not what both lore and the code say.

Anyways I've checked Goof's math and exporting 10, not 100, of any item will drop an item's price to 1.

[D&B]

NT has access to military-grade equipment and weaponry that far surpass those available on SS13, I doubt they would consider lavaland monsters and even megafauna "hazardous" given that a basic trained civilian miner can easily deal with them. The crew is there to find out if it's actually worth it.

Plasma has always been available in large quantities on the station, either in gas, liquid or solid form, the main purpose isn't to export it but to research on it.

Excuse me but I'll have you read my 22 pages of backstory before you call my characters basic trained civilian miners.

[iamgoofball]

I'll fix the math.
lore is no excuse for bad gameplay

[Grazyn]

That's not what both lore and the code say.

It's real in my mind

Seriously though, that's what the wiki says

Welcome! Space Station 13 is a top bottom of the line plasma research facility located somewhere in deep space.

Reasons for Existence[edit]
Plasma research, especially exothermic potential: dedicated science teams on hand for this purpose at all times. It is implied that Space Station 12 had even more. Since Space Station 13's construction, tighter regulations on research limits have been drafted in this field, bringing up a lot of questions from high-ranked employees.

Secondary directives: while a particular use has yet to be determined for the new station at this time, you can expect to see the station become used as a mining outpost, refueling station, supply depot, prison work release program, or some other application before activation is complete.

Mining comes last, under secondary directives, and it's an outpost, not even a proper mining network. Cargo credits are a sort of incentive used by NT to reward for good work, which should be research, not mining 200 units of plasma and be set for the rest of your life.

And lastly, IIRC explorer suits were called prospector suits at some point, so even the code is on my side.

[ohnopigeons]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M-JPH5SOmI&t=43s

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... als.dm#L47

[Grazyn]

Mining asteroid was added long after 2010. This alone should show you that exporting plasma isn't the reason why you're here. It's plasma research

[ohnopigeons]

Mining asteroid was added long after 2010. This alone should show you that exporting plasma isn't the reason why you're here. It's plasma research

It's both. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Grazyn]

If it's both you should get equal rewards from both and not infinite, easy credits from plasma sheets and scraps from everything else

[ShadowDimentio]

it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something

>100 sheets will saturate the market

What kind of fucking market is this?

I'd fail you if I was your macroeconomics professor, Goof. If I open a lemonade stand and sell lemonade for a quarter the lemonade market isn't going to implode due to me underselling.

The amount you'd have to export in order to see even a small drop in prices would be hundreds of thousands of sheets of metal.

[ohnopigeons]

I'd fail you if I was your macroeconomics professor, Goof.

I'd fail you too since this is clearly a microeconomics problem, not a macroeconomics one.

[Grazyn]

I think a lot of confusion derives from cargo credits being the same as space credits, aka money. It doesn't make sense for NT to buy our resources with actual money, SS13 isn't a subsidiary of NT, it's a station owned by NT. One could say that NT is selling the plasma and they send part of the profit back to the station, but this also is in conflict with the lore: who are they selling it to? It's stated in the lore that most of the galaxy hates NT. And why are they selling it? Plasma is a rare strategic resource, it's used for energy production, weapons manufactory and all sort of powercreep stuff, NT isn't going to give it away no matter the price.

Is it really money what we're getting from Centcom? It's used to "buy" supplies and recreation equipment, but it's useless outside of that. Yesterday I tried to buy a pair of yellow gloves from an engineer with a wad of 500 credits in cash, and they refused saying "That's not real money, its' worthless". I literally threw it at them, and you know what they did? They threw it in the trash. That's right, 500 credits right in the trash, that's how much the crew values money.

[D&B]

Like anarcho capitalism but valids instead of money.

[ohnopigeons]

snip

There's no such thing as real money. Currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services. Cargo points function in this regard. Space cash could technically function this way but they don't because they're too much of a hassle and there exists a complete lack of circulation/adoption.

[bandit]

Is it really money what we're getting from Centcom? It's used to "buy" supplies and recreation equipment, but it's useless outside of that. Yesterday I tried to buy a pair of yellow gloves from an engineer with a wad of 500 credits in cash, and they refused saying "That's not real money, its' worthless". I literally threw it at them, and you know what they did? They threw it in the trash. That's right, 500 credits right in the trash, that's how much the crew values money.

to be fair it actually was worthless until exports were added

[cedarbridge]

E C O N O M Y S Y S T E M

[Yakumo_Chen]

Aren't cargo points just corporate scrip? They aren't worth anything outside of Nanotrasen, you can only use them to import cargo. Sending Nanotrasen materials wouldn't have any impact on a scrip economy, and most things sent there aren't even sold, they're just used.

Plus, Nanotrasen ALWAYS needs plasma, they would have no reason to (even artificially) lower its value.

Doubly so if you've emagged it and are sending it to the syndicate instead. They want that plasma more then anything.

[kevinz000]

>goofball using the wrong fixes for the problem
lol
what else is new

[ohnopigeons]

What are the right fixes then?

[iamgoofball]

itt: lorefags and R&D shills bitch about me nerfing OP shit

[iamgoofball]

>cargo making infinite points
>Nerf infinite point generation
>"WOOOOW WTF"

[ShadowDimentio]

Your nerf makes no sense though and doesn't address the problem. Congratulations you've made it marginally more annoying to trickle-sell materials, now they'll just sell in bulk instead.

[Armhulen]

>tries to fix infinite points

>people can just add coins to the vault with the material instead

>fixed nothing

[iamgoofball]

Your nerf makes no sense though and doesn't address the problem. Congratulations you've made it marginally more annoying to trickle-sell materials, now they'll just sell in bulk instead.

>selling in bulk applies the same effects

[iamgoofball]

>tries to fix infinite points

>people can just add coins to the vault with the material instead

>fixed nothing

thanks for pointing out an exploit, will fix

[Armhulen]

>tries to fix infinite points

>people can just add coins to the vault with the material instead

>fixed nothing

thanks for pointing out an exploit, will fix

probably for the best

[ohnopigeons]

ITT no one reads the code and just argue over what they think the PR changed and not what it actually changes

[calzilla1]

This pr is fucking retarded. Also, who thinks cargo is OP, sans emag buying

[tacolizard]

it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something

It's almost like NT is a private company not a market and they order these minerals specifically for research purposes.

[ohnopigeons]

BIG LIST OF THINGS THAT DON'T GET SATURATED

• Plasma
• Crates
• Paperwork
• Syndicate Documents

THINGS THAT GET SATURATED FASTER THAN NORMAL

• Seeds

[iamgoofball]

>Plasma


This needs to be saturated too. Stop letting lore get in the way of balance.

[ohnopigeons]

I'd rather the cost of plasma be reduced than let it saturate.
Also

Code: Select all

// Materials. Nothing but plasma is really worth selling. Better leave it all to RnD and sell some plasma instead.

// Bananium. Exporting it makes the clown cry. Priceless.
/datum/export/material/bananium
	cost = 5000
	material_id = MAT_BANANIUM
	message = "cm3 of bananium"

// Diamonds. Rare and expensive.
/datum/export/material/diamond
	cost = 2500
	material_id = MAT_DIAMOND
	message = "cm3 of diamonds"

// Plasma. The oil of 26 century. The reason why you are here.
/datum/export/material/plasma
	cost = 500
	k_elasticity = 0
	material_id = MAT_PLASMA
	message = "cm3 of plasma"

// Uranium. Still useful for both power generation and nuclear annihilation.
/datum/export/material/uranium
	cost = 400
	material_id = MAT_URANIUM
	message = "cm3 of uranium"

Diamond is 5x better than plasma and uranium is comparable to plasma. For the first 50 sheets or so saturation is negligible (25% cost reduction vs before PR).

But I'll guess I'll make a PR to reduce plasma cost.

[Steelpoint]

Plasma should be a consistent item you can export and get money from, but I do agree it should be nerfed somewhat in how much money a 50 stack can give.

Though to be fair I did use plasma as my funding to buy the Raven Escape Ship.

[ohnopigeons]

I nerfed it.

[iamgoofball]

Stop letting lore get in the way of balance.

[ohnopigeons]

Lowered cost is more balanced than enabling saturation.

Plasma should be a consistent item you can export and get money from, but I do agree it should be nerfed somewhat in how much money a 50 stack can give.

My PR gives less points (than yours) for stealing Engineering's plasma stack and calling it a day while still keeping cargo's focus around plasma. Your PR does not.

[Qbopper]

Stop letting lore get in the way of balance.

stop posting this again and again and try to compromise with people about it

there are different ways to do things than the one you (or someone else) has in mind and spouting the same thing over and over will get you nowhere fast

[iamgoofball]

Lore literally has no place in game balance. Just because my OC is a super sayian doesn't mean I give him the power to explode the station with a verb.

I refuse to compromise for people who refuse to look at this as a video game, because it is a video game.

[DemonFiren]

>character design = lore
look at this retard

[iamgoofball]

>character design = lore
look at this retard

>make point that just because lore says im a super sayian doesnt mean i should get a verb to destroy the station to reflect the point of "just because lore says it doesnt mean it should be"
>*pushes up glasses, snorting* "AHEM, CHARACTER DESIGN" *pauses to use asthma inhaler* "ISN'T EQUAL TO LORE, THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!!!"

[DemonFiren]

>it's a goof tries to start shit because people won't agree with his objectively wrong views episode

[Qbopper]

I refuse to compromise (with people who have a view I disagree with)

this is the entire point of a compromise

if you don't at least make a token attempt to compromise then you really should just be ignored, because screeching about how everyone else is wrong until you get exactly what you want results in everyone dismissing you as a retard, and you can never recover from that

people who refuse to look at this as a video game, because it is a video game.

dnd is just a tabletop game, why the fuck are you worrying about world building, killing shit and getting loot is the whole point

just because you may not appreciate the elements of the game that aren't directly related to gameplay doesn't mean no one else does or that those people are wrong, and if you actually think you can just ignore the people who do care about that sort of thing, you're a damn fool

>it's a goof tries to start shit because people won't agree with his objectively wrong views episode

you're being just as bad as goof

[calzilla1]

Can someone please just port goon cargo. It's more interactive, fun, and less "push crates git munz to buy stupid shit because no one ever asks cargo to do anything"