A couple things that happened in my last round.

[Zsword]

1: I was someone elses double agent target without being an antag, I showed up in the post game round as it, but my notes where empty and there was no pop up at the round start.
2: Chokeholds should not work on SOmeone in a Fully Upgraded Mining Rig with internals on.
3: IF I'M MASHING RESIST I SHOULD BE ABLE TO BREAK A CHOKE HOLD, good god, a chokehold should not be an end all be all death sentence, it's lame and bullshit and an extremely cheap way to kill someone, 'welps you lose' situations are not fun for either party.

Those three things need fixing, stat.

[paprika]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues

also choking takes 300000 minutes to do and you are still able to yell over the radio or disarm spam or resist while you're being choked, if you're stunned you're dead anyway

[Zsword]

Resist was doing literally nothing, and how can you 'disarm' when you've been forced to lay on the ground by the act of choking?

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Um, move away? Grab is a worthless intent that is only used for stuffing things into certain pieces of machinery. Now we moved away even from that, dragging is used instead. Still good for tabling people though.

And we now even have an in-game button for issues.

[Cipher3]

The point is, you should escape the hold before it gets to/past aggressive.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

I thought you could pretty much run away from every stage of grab unless you are stunned or something?

[Zsword]

I'm also gonna remind everyone about the fully upgraded rig suit you can apperantly 'choke' through?

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Well... Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Internals have nothing to do with it, your neck is just being squeezed so much you cannot breathe.

[Zsword]

If a facehugger doesn't have the power to rip through and face raep me, I don't see how feeble human hands have the strength to crush my neck through a HARD suit.

[Konork]

If a facehugger doesn't have the power to rip through and face raep me, I don't see how feeble human hands have the strength to crush my neck through a HARD suit.

The helmet has solid plates, the neck probably doesn't because you would need it to move your head around. At best, it would be segmented plates on the neck, which would make strangling more effective if anything because you now have multiple pieces of metal pressing into your throat instead of just a guys hand

[Lo6a4evskiy]

I don't see how feeble human hands have the strength to crush my neck through a HARD suit.

How does your feeble human neck has the strength to turn your head in a HARD suit?

Besides, hardsuits already protect from fucking everything, they don't have to be any more OP.

[Steelpoint]

The only suit I would support being able to withstand everything is the Death Squad's Armour, because that's meant to be overpowered. Should also not be able to be stripped.

Anyway, as pointed out we really don't need to buff Hardsuits, if anything they still need to lose the flash protection.

[Scott]

That's ridiculous, Steelpoint.

[Kelenius]

But he's right, you know.

Besides, chocking someone without a hardsuit with one hand is not exactly an easy job, either, yet all spessmen are capable of doing it.

[RG4]

I haven't seen anyone get choked to death in such a long while. Like that's literally one the most robust ways to can kill someone because it requires you to stun,cuff,strip and hide. On severs when old ling I used to do this constantly, parasting, strip their radio and choke them out. Instant win.

[Scott]

But he's right, you know.

Besides, chocking someone without a hardsuit with one hand is not exactly an easy job, either, yet all spessmen are capable of doing it.

They're supposed to block out the sun and be protective against welding. If sunglasses can block a flash, so should a space ready helmet.

[MisterPerson]

For the record this is exactly the kind of thread I wish more people would post on feedback. "Hey some shit happened and here's what I thought of it". Want to vent about shit? Go ahead, this is a great place for that.

Choking is really bad right now for both the choker and chokee. The choker doesn't like it because it's a slow method of execution with strictly superior alternatives and the chokee doesn't like it because escaping is really, really awkward and eventually impossible.

[MedicInDisquise]

Choking is also awkward to even do in the first place. Literally the first time I choked somebody was when I got surprise ling over at Goon, and that's only because you have to choke to absorb.

For stunning, Flash, E-Guns, and Stunprods are so much more usefull. For killing them, an esword, toolbox, or the butt of your energy gun is so much more useful. Why choke unless you're a ling?

[Lo6a4evskiy]

It makes sense since it's something everyone can do. Like punching. Why punch if you have a better weapon? Well there's KO chance, but otherwise.

[Cipher3]

It makes sense since it's something everyone can do. Like punching. Why punch if you have a better weapon? Well there's KO chance, but otherwise.

Because real men use fisticuffs.

[cedarbridge]

It makes sense since it's something everyone can do. Like punching. Why punch if you have a better weapon? Well there's KO chance, but otherwise.

Because real men use fisticuffs.

There's no more robust feeling than taking out a nuke op by punching them in the face.

[Zsword]

I'd also add this to 'a list of reasons no one plays mining' Because it's pretty much a death sentence, I master figuring out how to robust goliaths with my pewpew bot and my pickaxe, turn in a small stash to RnD, get a diamond drill, head back out to flood Robotics with Durand materials, die on the shuttle. Or Robotics is blown up, or we've evacuated 15 minutes ago. Mining has the POTENTIAL to be REDICULOUSLY fun, but it takes so long to get there no one bothers trying. (I know we have a topic on feedback for mining, but still relevant to the discussion at hand.)

This then leads to an domino affect with RnD and Robotics, because no one plays Mining(or is almost to garunteed getting dead before they can deliver to RnD and Robotics, meaning RnD and robotics can't make any of their fun stuff, like Durands, or Hyper Capacitor Pico Manipilator Cyborg Rechargers to recharge cynorgs SUPER fast and repair them while they do it, no Vtecs for the cyborgs, can't get energy cannons out to the crew to fight the blobs... it's just all around bad times for that section of the station.

[Raven776]

I'd also add this to 'a list of reasons no one plays mining' Because it's pretty much a death sentence, I master figuring out how to robust goliaths with my pewpew bot and my pickaxe, turn in a small stash to RnD, get a diamond drill, head back out to flood Robotics with Durand materials, die on the shuttle. Or Robotics is blown up, or we've evacuated 15 minutes ago. Mining has the POTENTIAL to be REDICULOUSLY fun, but it takes so long to get there no one bothers trying. (I know we have a topic on feedback for mining, but still relevant to the discussion at hand.)

This then leads to an domino affect with RnD and Robotics, because no one plays Mining(or is almost to garunteed getting dead before they can deliver to RnD and Robotics, meaning RnD and robotics can't make any of their fun stuff, like Durands, or Hyper Capacitor Pico Manipilator Cyborg Rechargers to recharge cynorgs SUPER fast and repair them while they do it, no Vtecs for the cyborgs, can't get energy cannons out to the crew to fight the blobs... it's just all around bad times for that section of the station.

What does this have to do with choking?

[Rose-chan]

I'd also add this to 'a list of reasons no one plays mining' Because it's pretty much a death sentence, I master figuring out how to robust goliaths with my pewpew bot and my pickaxe, turn in a small stash to RnD, get a diamond drill, head back out to flood Robotics with Durand materials, die on the shuttle.

The miner's shuttle is a deathtrap. Smash out the window before you return to the station or take a bunch of stimulants before delivering your ore. The most dangerous time for a miner is usually when they are smelting their first batch of ore.

[Raven776]

Holy shit, isn't smashing out windows a bit extreme? I mean, this is unless you heard screams over the radios, but if it's evidently a peaceful chatter, are you still smashing out windows?

[Rose-chan]

The mining dock is a literal death trap for miners, especially before they've dropped of their first batch of ores. What department other than virology is so easy for a single traitor to trap someone in with no hope of escape? Depending on who used the mining shuttle last, anyone who happens to be in the cargo bay or the mining dock even gets an advanced warning you're coming. You'll be moving slowly in that hardsuit, and your only escape route is quickly and easily blocked. I've had my shit fucked because there was no way out and the mining shuttle doesn't take off fast enough; and I've had my ass saved by taking the precaution ahead of time to bust that window on the mining shuttle. However, busting that shuttle window does kinda of fuck over any late arrival miners just a little bit; so it's not something I'll do every shift. However, if I'm not liking what I'm hearing over the radio, or have a distrust of the cargo staff, or hear anything about there being revs, you better believe I'm smashing that window before returning station side. It's something I recommend other miners to do, especially newcomers, because if you return and find antags waiting for you before you've bought your first batch of stimulants, you are so fucking screwed. If I had to make any major recommendation for mining, it would be to add a side door into space on the other side of the mining shuttle, just to give miners an escape route.

tl;dr: I don't do it every round, but the mining dock is a death trap for miners.

[peoplearestrange]

Maybe we can stick another airlock on the other side of the shuttle? One that only leads to space, similar to the extra ones on the escape shuttle.

[cedarbridge]

Maybe we can stick another airlock on the other side of the shuttle? One that only leads to space, similar to the extra ones on the escape shuttle.

A smart miner that finds antags waiting for them already can pickaxe the window out and jump. I've done it at least twice now.

[Rose-chan]

A smart miner that finds antags waiting for them already can pickaxe the window out and jump. I've done it at least twice now.

Good luck breaking that window down before two antags with all access opens the doors and murder with their double beam swords; or an overzealous security officer with access during a rev round zaps you and decides to brig you and then leave you for whenever it is they get around to ordering those loyalty implants. No thanks, I'll break the window down as an escape route in the event I need one, thank you very much.

[paprika]

Yeah the mining shuttle needs an exit to space.

[Steelpoint]

Easily done, the exit would be Miner access only for obvious reasons.

[cedarbridge]

A smart miner that finds antags waiting for them already can pickaxe the window out and jump. I've done it at least twice now.

Good luck breaking that window down before two antags with all access opens the doors and murder with their double beam swords; or an overzealous security officer with access during a rev round zaps you and decides to brig you and then leave you for whenever it is they get around to ordering those loyalty implants. No thanks, I'll break the window down as an escape route in the event I need one, thank you very much.

Lets discuss apples to apples here. Considering your "the tators have every tool they need to literally crawl up your ass" scenario, the window ceases to even matter. At that point you shouldn't be thinking, "whoops, I need to go out the window" You should be thinking, "Do I try my luck spamming disarm or will the shuttle down them for me in time?"

[Rose-chan]

Lets discuss apples to apples here. Considering your "the tators have every tool they need to literally crawl up your ass" scenario, the window ceases to even matter. At that point you shouldn't be thinking, "whoops, I need to go out the window" You should be thinking, "Do I try my luck spamming disarm or will the shuttle down them for me in time?"

Unless you have already broken the window ahead of time, in which case you can simply jump out into space, leaving the two murderboning traitors behind in their darkened space station with no way to chase after you that isn't suicide.

Edit: Deleted the unnecessary bits.

[callanrockslol]

I'm going to say that choking was better when it wasn't a guaranteed kill once they got you on the ground and no-one else was around.

Funnily enough you can choke one guy and beat another to death at the same time now.