nuke op saw lmg is massively op

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Deitus
 
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nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:23 am #403269

ided pls nerf lele xd haha shitpost

now that we have that out of the way, why does a burst-fire weapon with a massive magazine do 60 damage per hit? who thought this was a good idea?
>its expensive
18 tc is not expensive for something as damaging as a science railgun. even half the current damage is bad honestly but 60 damage per hit is absolutely ridiculous.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:44 am #403271

All the nuke op guns pretty much instakill you, you're supposed to dodge not tank smart guy.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby subject217 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:59 am #403287

it does 45 damage per hit. HP ammo is 60 damage per hit but pretty garbage versus armor. AP is 40 damage per hit with great armor pen. also it's 18 tc for the gun and 6 tc per spare magazine. you're usually spending about 30 tc total on a SAW. furthermore, people using the SAW can't use anything in their side hands, which means they lose to a single taser, or disabler spam. the weapon is also too big to be held anywhere besides your hands, so you can't swap between it and something else. this post screams i ded and it seems very apparent that you aren't actually familiar with using a SAW.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:15 am #403308

oh boy here we go again

ShadowDimentio wrote:All the nuke op guns pretty much instakill you, you're supposed to dodge not tank smart guy.

again im not sure if you're just shitposting or not (leaning towards yes) but ill humor this anyway: when you're running down long halls against a quick burst-fire gun that is very likely to put you in orange with the first shot and slow you to a snail's crawl, dodging will only get you so far in the best-case scenario. if it were a single shot then maybe this would be a valid argument but its very easy to cover a hallway with this kind of gun.

subject217 wrote:it does 45 damage per hit. HP ammo is 60 damage per hit but pretty garbage versus armor. AP is 40 damage per hit with great armor pen. also it's 18 tc for the gun and 6 tc per spare magazine. you're usually spending about 30 tc total on a SAW. furthermore, people using the SAW can't use anything in their side hands, which means they lose to a single taser, or disabler spam. the weapon is also too big to be held anywhere besides your hands, so you can't swap between it and something else. this post screams i ded and it seems very apparent that you aren't actually familiar with using a SAW.


its cute how you make all these assumptions about me but again, lets try to break this down.
-45 per hit is still a fuckton, and as stated before is likely to put you low enough to slow you and make you a far easier target.

-most crew dont wear armor, and even sec doesnt have the time to suit up in full bulletproofs before the ops already blitzkrieg'd from most op rounds i see. and even then there's 40 at best IS STILL A HUGE AMOUNT.

-the "just tase them bro" argument is about as good as the "just throw floortiles bro" argument; its a best-case scenario argument that barely squeaks by the theory level and completely falls flat in practice. even assuming the ops dont have countermeasures against tasers (adrenals, shielded hardsuits, etc) the tasers have five shots total with finite range while the saw has a massive range that is easily effective to be spray and pray even at a distance. disablers are even worse as they take multiple shots to even slow the op.

-ive actually seen the saw in action mutliple times from both using, receiving, and observing perspective, with the catalyst for this post being from the lattermost where i was observing a round where the captain was downed in 2 shots before having his body dragged off into space, in which both the captain and other victims in deadchat were saying how BS the gun was. on the using level, i've found rushing with the saw to be extremely effective for a quick win as its basically a long-range ambush shotgun and can take down and/or immobilize a hallway full of crew in quick order.

despite everything i say though this seems to have all the hallmarks of just becoming another "LOL DEITUS" thread while other actual "ided" threads get circlejerked hard enough that coders eventually buckle, so unless someone actually has any good input i guess ill just leave the rest of the thread open to the usual "deitus fwoosh alt lamo" / "YOU HAVE [x] NOTES BRUH" / "ided thread" / generalized not reading of posts before posting arguments that have already been touched on that most of the threads i make get.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby SaveVatznick » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:27 am #403310

Yes yes my minions, keep whining about the machine gun. Meanwhile, the sleeper OP grenade belt meta incubates, waiting for a SAW nerf.

Also Deitus, just make explosive lance.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:41 am #403311

SaveVatznick wrote:Also Deitus, just make explosive lance.


this is actual good advice but again hinges on whether ops can blitz fast enough / most people dont know how to make these
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby kevinz000 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:41 am #403316

tfw the balance of tg became "the answer to something being op is use something more op" lmao

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:41 am #403317

The whole point of the saw is that it's high commitment. You can't really do anything except use it while it's in your hands and it costs a fat chunk of TCs. If multiple people get the jump on you at once, you'll die and lose it. If multiple people are down the hall and you get the jump on them, they'll all likely die. That's kind of the whole idea. Next time run away and try to get the jump on him with a friend instead of running at him solo when he clearly has the range advantage.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:45 am #403319

PKPenguin321 wrote:Next time run away and try to get the jump on him with a friend instead of running at him solo when he clearly has the range advantage.


Tfw op is too much of a brainlet to try running.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:46 am #403320

kevinz000 wrote:tfw the balance of tg became "the answer to something being op is use something more op" lmao


Teamwork is the most OP thing in the game
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"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
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"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
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">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Bluespace » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:49 am #403321

>throw dead body at op
>it knocks the lmg out of his hand
>he brought no other weapons so now he’s useless
>laughingassistant.gif
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:38 am #403338

remember when the saw was noob bait?
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby CPTANT » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:50 am #403349

SAW is fine. uses both hands, can't be put in your backpack, expensive and eats through ammo which is also expensive.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby oranges » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:59 am #403353

it's a crowd control weapon, you are not supposed to run into it

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Arianya » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:03 am #403355

It's me, I'm the op with the SAW who ends up accidentally killing their own team because of help intent swapping space just after I click to shoot at some sec brainlet.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Dr_bee » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:07 pm #403492

Man who runs into heavy machine gun fire dies: More news at 11!

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:37 pm #403515

lmg =! hmg ffs
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Aloraydrel » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:14 pm #403531

*runs into highly geared military man with SAW*

Why I die?

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby somerandomguy » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:33 pm #403574

Aloraydrel wrote:*runs into highly geared military man with SAW*

Why I die?

*solocharges deathsquad*

Pulse rifle op plz nerf

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby iksyp » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:05 pm #403639

ops who don't use surplus rifles exclusively don't deserve greentext anyways
also, it's not hard to dodge, bullets are slow as fuck anyways
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:27 pm #403652

iksyp wrote:ops who don't use surplus rifles exclusively don't deserve greentext anyways
also, it's not hard to dodge, bullets are slow as fuck anyways

red army ops would be nice, though
nothing but moist nuggets, nagant revolvers and frag grenades
no armour, only ushankas
no borgs, only bears

maybe this could even work if you gave them greater numbers
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:54 pm #403663

Another quality Deitus thread

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:09 am.
Reason: and now we're going to delete all criticism

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby John_Oxford » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:43 pm #403697

its been that way for years

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:20 pm #403717

Just throw floor tiles at him lmao

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:57 pm #403750

Deitus wrote:...generalized not reading of posts before posting arguments that have already been touched on that most of the threads i make get.


so i can officially predict the future now

damn im good.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:10 pm #403758

Deitus wrote:
Deitus wrote:...generalized not reading of posts before posting arguments that have already been touched on that most of the threads i make get.


so i can officially predict the future now

damn im good.

...he said, failing to read my post
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:25 pm #403766

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Deitus wrote:
Deitus wrote:...generalized not reading of posts before posting arguments that have already been touched on that most of the threads i make get.


so i can officially predict the future now

damn im good.

...he said, failing to read my post


PKPenguin321 wrote:Next time run away and try to get the jump on him with a friend instead of running at him solo when he clearly has the range advantage.


Deitus wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:All the nuke op guns pretty much instakill you, you're supposed to dodge not tank smart guy.

again im not sure if you're just shitposting or not (leaning towards yes) but ill humor this anyway: when you're running down long halls against a quick burst-fire gun that is very likely to put you in orange with the first shot and slow you to a snail's crawl, dodging will only get you so far in the best-case scenario. if it were a single shot then maybe this would be a valid argument but its very easy to cover a hallway with this kind of gun.


gee wilikers batman!

>thread gets made abloobloo ided to lings
>gets changed
>thread gets made abloobloo ided to clock cult
>gets removed
>i make thread pointing out a heavily powerful weapon with few tradeoffs from multiple standpoints
>LOL DEITUS

so this...is the power...of shitposting...
maybe armhulenn is right, i should try learning coding so i can just pull a kevinz and nerf anything i die to myself.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:46 pm #403800

In my opinion, you lost the respect people would give you in this thread when you wrote "oh boy here we go again"

Yet again I'm not you so maybe it was necessary, I guess.

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:57 pm #403810

Deitus, I'm not saying you need to just dodge, I'm just saying to run the fuck away. No shit if you try to pull up on him while dodging his shots you'll lose.

The weapon is not over powered. It has drawbacks. It's fine and not in need of change.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby SaveVatznick » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:14 am #403821

Meme lance them. Problem Solved.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:32 am #403829

Ayy Lemoh wrote:In my opinion, you lost the respect people would give you in this thread when you wrote "oh boy here we go again"

Yet again I'm not you so maybe it was necessary, I guess.


its frustratingly yet exceedingly common for people to not read what i post in favor of rehashing arguments that ive addressed multiple times before or outright shitposting, so you can imagine why i would say that.

at any rate it seems im outvoted here so unless the other people who agreed with me in chat the other day wanna post too ill just leave it open for more shitposts
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby SpaceManiac » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:04 am #403865

ShadowDimentio wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:tfw the balance of tg became "the answer to something being op is use something more op" lmao


Teamwork is the most OP thing in the game

this but unironically

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:46 am #403877

Deitus wrote: common for people to not read what i post in favor of rehashing arguments that ive addressed multiple times before


Have you considered that they read your post and simply find the way you "addressed" their arguments unconvincing.'

Preemptively arguing something doesn't automatically win the argument.

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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:01 am #403888

when they dont acknowledge that an argument was even made in the first place and instead just say the same thing with no other context its a safe bet that they didnt read it.
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby oranges » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:11 am #403941

every single argument you made was predicated on the basis that it should actually be possible to run at someone wielding the nukeops most effective anti crowd weapon, helping to balance the 50vs5 situation they're in.

That is wrong, when there is a guy wielding a SAW you retreat and sucker them into a trap or a nice corner filled space that renders them ineffective

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Arianya
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Arianya » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:41 am #403946

Deitus wrote:ided pls nerf lele xd haha shitpost

its cute how you make all these assumptions about me

despite everything i say though this seems to have all the hallmarks of just becoming another "LOL DEITUS"[...]

oh boy here we go again

so this...is the power...of shitposting...


OP I'm no expert but maybe if you shitpost and otherwise seem to not be serious you shouldn't be shocked if people put less effort into your threads. Just my 2 cents!
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Deitus
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:55 pm #404106

oranges wrote:every single argument you made was predicated on the basis that it should actually be possible to run at someone wielding the nukeops most effective anti crowd weapon, helping to balance the 50vs5 situation they're in.

That is wrong, when there is a guy wielding a SAW you retreat and sucker them into a trap or a nice corner filled space that renders them ineffective


the argument ive been trying to make this whole time is in the case where you are running FROM the ops, not towards them; everyone knows that its all but a suicidal move to rush the ops even without the saw in the equation. what im trying to say is that the ops will be running at you continually if you carry the disk since they have the pinpointer, and eventually you're going to be in a situation where you're in long area of some sort where the ops can burst fire down it to cover the entire area, making dodging extremely difficult. im trying to think of a way to convey my thoughts but this is the best i can think of right now, ill try and think of a way to clarify it later

Arianya wrote:
Deitus wrote:ided pls nerf lele xd haha shitpost

an attempt to defuse the ided posters before they start since its a staple in any thread discussing nerfs. it didnt work.
its cute how you make all these assumptions about me

they made assumptions about the reason i made the thread so i called them out on it since it happens often.
despite everything i say though this seems to have all the hallmarks of just becoming another "LOL DEITUS"[...]

it did have them and it has become one
oh boy here we go again

see previous posts
so this...is the power...of shitposting...

yes, shitposting and people not reading posts before replying did a good job of at the very least partially derailing the thread.

OP I'm no expert but maybe if you shitpost and otherwise seem to not be serious you shouldn't be shocked if people put less effort into your threads. Just my 2 cents!

i put effort into my threads and arguments, people choose not to read them and instead rehash arguments that have already been talked about.
kind of like yours.
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Anonmare
 
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Anonmare » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:57 pm #404108

Can we revert the chest rig and re-add the military belt

Military belt had gorgeous aesthetics with the tactical turtleneck tbh
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Davidchan
 
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:48 pm
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Davidchan » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:25 pm #404125

Military belt had gorgeous aesthetics with the tactical turtleneck tbh[/quote]
The chest rig has an interesting aesthetic with the hardsuit even if it obscures the hardsuit's aesthetic. No-one wore the turtleneck with the belt without the hardsuit to cover it up. But if there was a role without a hardsuit, I'd be all for bringing back the lipstick red belt.[/quote]

Clearly we need cutter pods, 2-3 man boarding vessels that smash into escape pods or outhull of the station and allow the nukes to board without hardsuits. Needs an agent ID to launch.
Law 0: Secborg din do nuffin.

Xeroxemnas
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Xeroxemnas » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:28 pm #404127

Honestly though something is wrong when buying an LMG with armor piercing ammo is far more effective than getting a marauder despite the huge TC investment for the mech.

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Anuv
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Anuv » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:20 pm #404199

Why are explosive lances a thing? They're even more OP than the LMG.
"You mess with the best you die like the rest" - Janice "Foxy" Lean
Citadel Station Employee of the Year - Anuv Haifisch, Vulpakin Engineer

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Deitus
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Deitus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:54 pm #404213

they're op, yes, but 1) most people dont know how to craft them and 2) they require time to make (unless you're carrying one around for whatever reason) which can conflict with the speed that op engagements tend to start and end.

or you could pull an asher clarke and kill 3 ops with one grenade launcher you got from space ruins :honk:
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Anuv
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Anuv » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:20 pm #404238

They're explicitly in the weapon craft menu, and anyone can make them from tool storage in 30 seconds. The fact that they can take down a shielded suit is dumb.
"You mess with the best you die like the rest" - Janice "Foxy" Lean
Citadel Station Employee of the Year - Anuv Haifisch, Vulpakin Engineer

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Davidchan
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Davidchan » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:54 pm #404424

I got to watch a lance kill a slaughter demon in 1 hit so yeah they need some looking at. The LMG could maybe use a speed debuff while carried but damage wise it's in a good spot for what its meant to do: Kill idiots standing in the open.
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Dr_bee
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Dr_bee » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:30 am #404769

Davidchan wrote:I got to watch a lance kill a slaughter demon in 1 hit so yeah they need some looking at. The LMG could maybe use a speed debuff while carried but damage wise it's in a good spot for what its meant to do: Kill idiots standing in the open.


They are bulky, have an obvious sprite, and require access to chemistry or a metric fuckton of bananas to make. They are strong but thats because they require prep-time. They are balanced, if you dont like dying to them, dont hang around people with the obvious fucking lance sprite in their hand or on their back.

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Anuv
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Anuv » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:17 pm #404816

You can make them from materials in tool storage and a soda machine in 30 seconds. You don't need chem or bananas.
"You mess with the best you die like the rest" - Janice "Foxy" Lean
Citadel Station Employee of the Year - Anuv Haifisch, Vulpakin Engineer

Dr_bee
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Dr_bee » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:28 pm #404830

Anuv wrote:You can make them from materials in tool storage and a soda machine in 30 seconds. You don't need chem or bananas.


improvised explosive lances are shit compared to the godlike potassium/water instakill sticks.

The explosion stun should probably be removed from improvised explosives anyway, or at least from explosions under a certain threshold. Right now RNG can fuck you over from a teeny tiny explosion even if you are a nuke op in a hardsuit.

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Anuv
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Anuv » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:29 pm #404831

I just ended a >10 minute wizard round with a single IED lance I made in 45 seconds. So yes, severely remove their damage and any stun
"You mess with the best you die like the rest" - Janice "Foxy" Lean
Citadel Station Employee of the Year - Anuv Haifisch, Vulpakin Engineer

Xeroxemnas
 
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Re: nuke op saw lmg is massively op

Postby Xeroxemnas » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:45 pm #404936

Stimpacks are probably even worse.

At least for ops they shouldnt be available

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