[POLL]Should the gulag have a mining scanner?

[leibniz]

Right now there is no mining scanner on the gulag.
I think this way the gulag isn't really useful, apart from being the place that you use to make prisoners disappear.

The recommended brig time/gulag conversion rate is 100 points / minute, which seems horribly inaccurate, especially without a scanner.

So I thought that this is an obvious oversight, but apparently it is not.

Please share your thoughts regarding this.

[MMMiracles]

I always saw gulag as a place to put unruly people as more of a timeout when their sentence isn't really enough for perma, with the side effect of getting some extra ore on the side. Seems kinda dumb that they don't get a scanner, considering it means the difference between 500 points worth of valuable ore or 500 points worth of metal.

[Malkevin]

No, and the gulag should be made to replace perma, not used for time sentences

[leibniz]

No, and the gulag should be made to replace perma, not used for time sentences

Maybe, but right now it can be used for timed sentences. And you can just not give them IDs. I dont know why scanners would hurt.

[Incomptinence]

Yes there should be a scanner or no scanner should be required. It is primarily a WORK CAMP if you want to permadump people there just don't give them prisioner IDs to put points on.

[RG4]

No, and the gulag should be made to replace perma, not used for time sentences

The ironic thing really since the space update it actually makes the gulag an option.

[Saegrimr]

I dont understand why its so rarely used...

Its basically perma, trying to use it in place of a 5 minute sentence becomes at 5 minute ordeal just to get them there in the first place, and 15+ assuming they already know how to work the machines there and their point value.

Its not intuitive at all. Anytime anybody gets gulagged, if they don't just straight up ghost or suicide they ahelp because they have no clue what to even do.

This is NOT a good replacement for normal brig timers.

[Malkevin]

Yes there should be a scanner or no scanner should be required. It is primarily a WORK CAMP if you want to permadump people there just don't give them prisioner IDs to put points on.

See, thats the thing I hate.
I got Prisoner ID cards added because it was annoying having 'Unknown - Prison Wing' on Crew Monitoring consoles and chemical implants on the Prisoner Management puter.

So not only are you suggesting not using a thing that was added for PERMA prisoners, the box of prisoner cards has been moved to the gulag shuttle dock for some reason...

[Intigracy]

     .

[leibniz]

Yes there should be a scanner or no scanner should be required. It is primarily a WORK CAMP if you want to permadump people there just don't give them prisioner IDs to put points on.

See, thats the thing I hate.
I got Prisoner ID cards added because it was annoying having 'Unknown - Prison Wing' on Crew Monitoring consoles and chemical implants on the Prisoner Management puter.

So not only are you suggesting not using a thing that was added for PERMA prisoners, the box of prisoner cards has been moved to the gulag shuttle dock for some reason...

Then give them an ID and set their quota to 999999 points.

[Intigracy]

     .

[whodaloo]

Yes there should be a scanner or no scanner should be required. It is primarily a WORK CAMP if you want to permadump people there just don't give them prisioner IDs to put points on.

See, thats the thing I hate.
I got Prisoner ID cards added because it was annoying having 'Unknown - Prison Wing' on Crew Monitoring consoles and chemical implants on the Prisoner Management puter.

So not only are you suggesting not using a thing that was added for PERMA prisoners, the box of prisoner cards has been moved to the gulag shuttle dock for some reason...

Then give them an ID and set their quota to 999999 points.

I believe that Prisoner IDs are capped at 1000 points, to match with 10 minutes as a cap for brig timers.

[leibniz]

Right, we could discuss the mining scanners though.

[TheWiznard]

as someone who only plays 80% miner 20% ai, getting 500-1000 points is so fucking easy there is no way in hell you need a scanner for jack shit. While the gulag part of the asteroid comes with reduced ore gen it is still incredibly easy to get points. everyone I see sent to the gulag either digs in a 1x1 tunnel or suicides/ghosts whatever. If you just dig


like this instead of 1x1 tunnels everywhere you double the amount of shit you get easily and you're out of the gulag lightning fast and I don't see how you could possibly need a mining scanner for the gulag.

[Incomptinence]

That still does not say why they shouldn't have it. You could have prisoners bringing in iron glass melange every time or you could get the rares sent first which would be preferable?

[TheWiznard]

That still does not say why they shouldn't have it. You could have prisoners bringing in iron glass melange every time or you could get the rares sent first which would be preferable?

because it would be too easy to just hand prisoners a scanner so they can mine in 1x1 tunnels straight to all the high value ore. It should be a grueling pain in the ass to accumulate points like it is now, if you dig in a three wide tunnel or actually mine out a huge chunk of the asteroid you're going to find minerals regardless.

[Malkevin]

Which bit of "prisoner id cards should be for perma sentences only, and gulag should only be for perma prisoners only" did you two not understand?
The prisoner ID card is to:
-Give a little dehumanisation to perma prisoners by only referring to them as a number (its completely not a reference to The Prisoner, no Paprika no, stay away...)
-Be able to differentiate them on suit sensors.

Its not meant to be a fucking souvenir from spess camp, or worse they leave a completed card in the bloody redemption console then all the next guy needs to do is just walk up to it and press 'open door'.

Not giving them a card defeats the main fucking intent behind why I added them in the first place, so that they would show up on suit sensors with an ID instead of being Unknown.


Gulag is really dumb as an alternative to timed sentences
-For a start, its a fucking gulag - gulags were places the soviets threw POWs and political prisoners, and others they didnt like, and worked them TO DEATH.
-Secondly, any timed sentence is going to have an extra 5 minutes tacked onto it because Office Fumbles takes a frikken age to strip you of all your gear and dress you in orange. I had to write an SOP into Space Law to stop officers fully stripping prisoners.
-Thirdly, its incredibly flawed. Prisoners can keep their card, or leave it in the machine (most will do this out of lazy ness), or pool all their points onto one card and escape together.
-Fourthly, it can not be used as mixed perma/timed because you know that murderer you shoved in without a card? Yeah, he just killed the fresh fish and looted their ID card - now they're back on station to kill more people. Good fucking going.
Fifthly, you know all your gear the officer stripped off you and shoved in a locker whilst he dressed you like a carrot? Yeah, thats gone now, you aren't getting that back.


I mean really, which wise guy thought that hard labour was an acceptable alternative to something that equates to being shoved in the drunk tank?

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To answer the original question, no they shouldn't get scanners because a gulag sentence is hard labour, its meant to be hard.

[paprika]

Yeah honestly malk makes a point, we've trial runned the gulag and it's not worth the effort dressing a prisoner up when you can just throw them in a cell unless you really want to piss someone off. The real use of the gulag would be replacing perma.

[Intigracy]

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[paprika]

>what would motivate prisoners to work

The same thing that motivates people to not ghost when they're put in perma. Shitters will be shitters, but roleplayers will have something to do other than botany, which is mine and hopefully earn a ticket out of permabrig with a tracking implant eventually if security is nice. Permabrig never allows people to work for the opportunity to be released from perma, and even though the chances are slim, some chance is better than no chance. I would release permabrigged traitors if they mine a lot, but that's just me. Currently with the awful point max on the gulag I can't put permabrig prisoners in the gulag because they'll be out in 10 minutes whether i want them to be or not.

[Malkevin]

Then what would motivate prisoners to work?

Officers with whips?

While 99% of players don't even roleplay pain and fear?

Why do people mine in general?

It gives perma prisoners something to do but fuck all, do they need to dig?
No, same as current perma prisoners don't have any incentive to grow plants

[Malkevin]

Sure I can, how often do you see people actually bother retrieving materials from the gulag shuttle?
Most people probably even forgot it exists.

[paprika]

So it's not replacing perma.

Yes, it is replacing perma, with the gulag. The gulag isn't permanent. There will be no perma anymore. You could get stuck on the gulag permanently if you're a shitter, but you could also mine for points to be a good boy and earn back some trust to stay in the round if sec is feeling generous.

[Redblaze3000]

So it's not replacing perma.

Yes, it is replacing perma, with the gulag. The gulag isn't permanent. There will be no perma anymore. You could get stuck on the gulag permanently if you're a shitter, but you could also mine for points to be a good boy and earn back some trust to stay in the round if sec is feeling generous.

That's fucking dumb. No true shitler will mine, they will just suicide/ghost like they do in perma unless they plan to break out or RP being in prison.

[Saegrimr]

That's fucking dumb. No true shitler will mine, they will just suicide/ghost like they do in perma unless they plan to break out or RP being in prison.

So... nothing lost/something to possibly be gained?

[Steelpoint]

If we wanted to we could spruce up the gulag slightly (putting in its own botany area), call it the new perma station and call it a day.

[Malkevin]

Prison Station Australia

[Steelpoint]

Prison Station Australia

I'll drink to that.

[iyaerP]

Prison Station Australia

I'll drink to that mate.

corrected.