Separate Genetics/Science

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Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Saegrimr » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:29 pm #44998

What does Genetics actually contribute to the Science department? Hulk superpowers? Sharing a single maintenance tunnel?
What is the purpose of having Genetics as a subdivision of science as well as medical?

Maybe in the same vein of "Improve instead of Remove" an ideas thread on how to make Genetics somehow related to the Science department.

Before we get into the "but muh genetic manipulation is scientific!" lets just get the whole "Engineering is just applied science" joke out of the way.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:46 pm #45019

Cloning area = medical
Genetic research area = science
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby paprika » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:51 pm #45020

Chemistry and virology both research in their own way anyway. It's really just an old excuse for the RD to barge into genetics and get superpowers, but nobody really does that anymore. There's literally no reason for genetics to be a part of research at this point, basically.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:46 pm #45041

I fully support this. There's functionally no reason for a geneticist to be wandering around inside the science area. Hell, 90% of the time the geneticists don't even have contact with the RD in any meaningful way.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:48 am #45125

Easier to get medbay upgraded from R&D.

I also like to visit geneticists as RD.

I mean, why separate them? Genetics doesn't have much in common with R&D. Well, xenobio doesn't either. Neither does toxins.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby miggles » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:10 am #45127

all those things are forms of research
R&D, toxins, xenobio, virology, and genetics are all research/experimentation based
telescience and robotics are kind of the outliers but they both rely heavily on RnD and contribute to it as well, so they're pretty much all connected
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:54 am #45138

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Easier to get medbay upgraded from R&D

With the exception of the RD prioritizing upgrading the cloner over anything else in medbay, that door is never used for that purpose. Genetics never goes to R&D for the parts to do it on their own. They have zero reason to need access to science.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Steelpoint » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:17 am #45139

I think both Genetics and Virology should be fully apart of the Medbay.

Virology, in theory, is meant to research and help eradicate new and unknown viruses that are encountered, and the first place a virus victim is going to get dragged to is medbay, thus its easier to get him into quarantine in virology rather than dragging him through RnD.

For Genetics, think of it akin to a medical specialist. So if a engineer has a wielding accident, a Doctor would give him a referral to Genetics who would fix his eye damage.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:22 pm #45149

cedarbridge wrote:With the exception of the RD prioritizing upgrading the cloner over anything else in medbay, that door is never used for that purpose. Genetics never goes to R&D for the parts to do it on their own. They have zero reason to need access to science.

I go through genetics regularly as CMO or RD and geneticists sitting there are the key to fast transportation.

Actually now that R&D is sort of open to everyone with basic science, they have even more reason to go there. Before it was to take medibots, now they can also get upgrades to medbay themselves! How cool is that.

Also you don't need a reason for something to remain there, you need a reason to remove something. Genetics being in two departments doesn't hurt anybody and it helps with interactions between medbay and science.

As for virology, it desperately needs an overhaul.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:42 pm #45153

Lo6a4evskiy wrote: Genetics being in two departments doesn't hurt anybody and it helps with interactions between medbay and science.

In what way? Medbay would already get their upgrades with or without genetics having access to the science department. I'm not really following your logic here for why this department needs access to science in any way that couldn't be used to justify the chef/cargo/engineering/the rest of medbay or really any other department that might want to upgrade their machines having the same access. As it is now, genetics is a Medical job with science access for...some reason. You do understand that departmental access is divided up for a reason and its not just there to stop "interaction" right?

There is nothing gained from having Genetics under both science and medical over one or the other. We already discussed the upgrades that already get done no matter who has access to that side maint door. You could take RD access away from the genetics department door and take genetics access away from the science side door and literally nothing of value would change. Genetics would remain a medical department. Science would keep doing what science does.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:15 pm #45244

Violaceus wrote:> literally
nothing of value would change.

So why change?

To properly define a job to its appropriate department and remove a very snowflake overlap that doesn't need to exist. It feels like you took that bit outside of context intentionally.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Intigracy » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:04 pm #45278

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:11 pm #45284

Intigracy wrote:It's so science has easy access to get in there and upgrade the cloner.

Then that would explain the door but not the fact that genetics can access it while scientists cannot. Yet genetics has access to the Research division where they don't actually have anything to do. That's kinda the point. Also, upgrades are brought in through the medbay main doors 99% of the time anyway for practical reasons. Again, this is justifying science having access to genetics but not the other way around.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:15 pm #45289

Violaceus wrote: Si non confectus, non reficiat




/thread

Except that it has been an issue in the past. Even moreso now that R&D is open to the main sci hallway. Genetics has barged into R&D to fuck with the protolathe on more than one occasion "but I have access!"

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Intigracy » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:18 pm #45291

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby ThatSlyFox » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:45 am #45323

So then only the RD would have access to that door. Might as well remove the access from him as well and make those doors 100% useless.

I do like the fact that geneticist have access to science. Been a couple times I have upgraded cloners and such. Scientist need to get over this "don't touch muh prolathe". Next thing you know they will be killing people over touching it. Oh wait, some already do.

There is as much science going on in genetics as toxins, robotics, and xenobio.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:52 am #45324

ThatSlyFox wrote:So then only the RD would have access to that door. Might as well remove the access from him as well and make those doors 100% useless.

I do like the fact that geneticist have access to science. Been a couple times I have upgraded cloners and such. Scientist need to get over this "don't touch muh prolathe". Next thing you know they will be killing people over touching it. Oh wait, some already do.

There is as much science going on in genetics as toxins, robotics, and xenobio.

Then pick a department. Is genetics science or medical? There's no reason to have one department be a snowflake that gets all the toys of both department and half of the actual participation.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Intigracy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:03 am #45325

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby ThatSlyFox » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:05 am #45337

cedarbridge wrote:
ThatSlyFox wrote:So then only the RD would have access to that door. Might as well remove the access from him as well and make those doors 100% useless.

I do like the fact that geneticist have access to science. Been a couple times I have upgraded cloners and such. Scientist need to get over this "don't touch muh prolathe". Next thing you know they will be killing people over touching it. Oh wait, some already do.

There is as much science going on in genetics as toxins, robotics, and xenobio.

Then pick a department. Is genetics science or medical? There's no reason to have one department be a snowflake that gets all the toys of both department and half of the actual participation.

And who says It can't be both? Why does special snowflake get thrown around so much? These are the questions folks.

Whiny scientist people stop being whiny. Your "toys" should be shared with everyone anyway. Having someone to bridge the gap between two departments is not a bad thing.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:50 am #45339

ThatSlyFox wrote:Whiny scientist people stop being whiny. Your "toys" should be shared with everyone anyway. Having someone to bridge the gap between two departments is not a bad thing.

Whiny medical people stop being whiny. You can get your "toys" at the counter like everyone else. Having to ask for things just like everyone else in your department is not a bad thing.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby ThatSlyFox » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:25 am #45345

Geneticist have very limited access. They cant even enter medical storage. All they have access to is genetics, medical front doors, and science front doors. The only reason this is a problem now is because someone decided to make the research area more open (dumb move if you ask me).

Seriously, science is the most whiny department. You guys already have the best shit on station but I guess it will never be enough.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:43 am #45375

Genetics and virology should wholly be a part of medbay and have no connection to Science because they both directly deal with people's health.

Ostensibly genetics is supposed to be removing defects from people, storing backups of the crew, and cloning the dead while virology should be focused on curing diseases. The whole killer diseases and sweet superpowers are IC fringe benefits, though in practice we often focus more on them. And that's totally fine, but that's not why they're plunked on the station in the first place.

The station is a plasma research facility. Which all goes down in science. Everything else is, in spirit, just there to support science and make sure they get the chance to do their thing. It's a plasma research facility, not a genetic supersoldier production facility, or flu factory.

Also this:

ThatSlyFox wrote:Seriously, science is the most whiny department. You guys already have the best shit on station but I guess it will never be enough.


Medbay needs its toys too.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:06 am #45382

We can easily separate Genetics from Science map wise, something like this should work.

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Personally I think a separation would be a good thing.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:48 pm #45416

Steelpoint wrote:We can easily separate Genetics from Science map wise, something like this should work.

Image

Personally I think a separation would be a good thing.

Can't you just adjust the access on the science side maint door and the genetics ID/headset? Seems more simple than overhauling a portion of the map

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:51 pm #45417

The only reason that connection point exists is to allow the RD into Genetics.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:04 pm #45427

Steelpoint wrote:The only reason that connection point exists is to allow the RD into Genetics.

The only difrerence between the current map and the screenshot is the distance between the airlocks in maint though.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Erbbu » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:15 pm #45430

Having genetics separate from science will probably mean that the RD will upgrade genetics even more rarely than they do now. Sad day.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:58 pm #45439

Erbbu wrote:Having genetics separate from science will probably mean that the RD will upgrade genetics even more rarely than they do now. Sad day.


Genetics is always last in line anyway, since the machines are the only ones that require silver/gold for max upgrades.
I've always come through the front door to hit the sleepers/tubes first, swing by later whenever mining shows up. Or just hit genetics with mid-grade parts if its lowpop and i'm not expecting minerals.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:21 pm #45444

Violaceus wrote:At current state virologist have no connection to science.


Correct, and?
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:11 pm #45477

Violaceus wrote:And our headadmin is acting like it is.

That is all.

I think the point he was making is that Genetics functions much like Virology, and Viro doesn't have/need Science access.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Scones » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:24 pm #45497

Seperate 'em. I hate the goddamn Geneticist wandering around Science with a syringe gun, just waiting to strike. Science is not an acceptable place to test monkey injectors.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:47 pm #45500

Cecily wrote:Seperate 'em. I hate the goddamn Geneticist wandering around Science with a syringe gun, just waiting to strike. Science is not an acceptable place to test monkey injectors.

We've talked about this. You can't load injectors into syringe guns.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:52 am #45553

Saegrimr wrote:
Violaceus wrote:And our headadmin is acting like it is.

That is all.

I think the point he was making is that Genetics functions much like Virology, and Viro doesn't have/need Science access.


What he said. Other servers and layouts have shuffled both departments around. Any logic that applies to one applies to both. They're both "medical research" positions.

You could even argue that virology has slightly more reason to be included with Science than genetics does, because the virologist actually uses plasma in their research while genetics doesn't need it at all. Hell, while we're on the topic you could probably make a decent argument that XenoBIOLOGY should probably be moved over to medbay instead of science. I'm only bringing it up as an example and not actually trying to make that point, though. From a game balance perspective having xenos pouring out of medbay when someone fucks up/traitors is too disastrous.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby miggles » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:45 am #45567

biology isnt always medical
nothing about xenobio is at all related to medicinal science
you dont even do surgery on slimes to remove their cores anymore, breaking any ties that once were
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Razharas » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:12 am #45570

Stop trying to make medbay less useless by attaching unrelated stuff to it, it will not do the trick
Medbay is shit because you dont need medbay with our health system

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:28 am #45571

Razharas wrote:Stop trying to make medbay less useless by attaching unrelated stuff to it, it will not do the trick
Medbay is shit because you dont need medbay with our health system

In what way are genetics and virology "unrelated to medbay"

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Bombadil » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:25 am #50225

Steelpoint wrote:I think both Genetics and Virology should be fully apart of the Medbay.

Virology, in theory, is meant to research and help eradicate new and unknown viruses that are encountered, and the first place a virus victim is going to get dragged to is medbay, thus its easier to get him into quarantine in virology rather than dragging him through RnD.

For Genetics, think of it akin to a medical specialist. So if a engineer has a wielding accident, a Doctor would give him a referral to Genetics who would fix his eye damage.

>Genetics fixing non-genetically damaged eyes
>Implying that isnt chemistry's job
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby Atticat » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:56 pm #53729

dont dooo it man. I play geneticist and bribe the RD with powers constantly so I can get my machines upgraded. Also it's really neat to be the only job on the station with two separate bosses.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby paprika » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:39 am #53825

The thing I hate about genetics is that other jobs can do shit like fix blindness and shit much better and quicker than genetics most of the time. Sure you have your strong disabilities that only a clean SE can fi- Oh wait, nevermind, there's a chem for that! (tm)

Frankly things like blindness should be genetic disabilities or damage that is irreparable by fucking chemistry. Make surgery/genetics more useful PLZ. Fuck chemistry and their 'lol fix everything' pills.
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby iyaerP » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:49 am #53838

Unless a chemist has rytalyne pills ready to go and waiting for you, stabbing someone with a clean SE is faster. And any competent geneticist will have a pile of clean SEs.

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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby paprika » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:18 am #53840

You could argue the same thing about rye pills??? And eating pills is easier than getting stabbed by SE pens you don't know aren't clean when pills are conveniently auto-named?
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Re: Separate Genetics/Science

Postby miggles » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:55 pm #53923

you can change the names of pills tho
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