MDs arrested for syringe guns by beepsky

[iyaerP]

MDs should not be arrested by beepsky for having a syringe gun when weapon check is on. Especially since spears don't seem to cause him to go off, despite being much more threatening. I know the syringe gun is much more robust when used with the right chemicals, but it can at least theoretically used for healing, which is what as an MD, I DO use it for. It should be allowed to be carried about without setting off beepsky. Nobody else gets arrested for having tools that they have 100% access to by rights.

[Zsword]

I'm gonna say removing the weapon tag from the Syringe gun isn't the worst thing, but I'll also add the Syringe gun, no matter what you use it for, is intended to be used as the Doctor's Tazer, for administering sleep toxin to roudy patients who need to be detained for treatment, so it makes sense that the Syringe Gun is considered a weapon, just as the Tazer and Disabler are. Doctors should never have weapon rights (besides heads, which is a personal belief of mine.), simple answer is, don't take Syringe gun outside of Med bay.

[iyaerP]

I use it for delivering tricordazine in crisis situations where people can't stand still long enough for me to stick a needle in them or health analyzer>aim for correct body part>bruise pack.

Just stick a tricord needle in the syringe gun, shoot my patient, go to the next. Very useful for ops, blob, or any other situation where I need rapid triage ability as a doctor. Getting constantly arrested because AI decided to turn on weapons checks isn't fun.

[paprika]

Syringe guns are not inherently deadly weapons, this is a bug

If they were deadly weapons medical staff wouldn't get them by default

[MisterPerson]

It's because the syringe gun is a kind of gun and beepsky is somewhat naive.

[fleure]

Beepsky should probably have the syringe gun in his whitelist.

[Malkevin]

Syringe guns are not inherently deadly weapons, this is a bug

If they were deadly weapons medical staff wouldn't get them by default

Tasers are non-lethal - should beepsky ignore those too?

[Silavite]

Syringe guns are not inherently deadly weapons, this is a bug
If they were deadly weapons medical staff wouldn't get them by default

Tasers are non-lethal - should beepsky ignore those too?

This might not be terribly relevant, since Beepsky is a secdrone, but the first law of robotics is quoted to extend from this.
https://archive.org/stream/1981-11-comp ... 9/mode/1up
(The relevant bit is about halfway down the first column)
The Syringe Gun is not built to harm, only misuse/abuse would cause this to happen, thus, it should not be considered a weapon by Beepsky. A taser is built for the express purpose of harming another human being, so it should count as a weapon by Beepsky.

[Miauw]

dont apply asimov to bots, bots are just computers, not proper cyborgs.

[dezzmont]

Beepsky should whitelist tools that can be missapropriated to be weapons, and not "meta" and assume lethal objects are automatically weapons. He is designed to catch people who are not cautious with stolen tools, not shit on an already weak job for leaving their hole. Either docs need to be cleared to have that weapon, or beepsky should think of it as a medical tool and the weapon tag removed.

The argument that medics should keep the dart gun inside medical is a bit ridiculous. Beepsky should be location neutral.

dont apply asimov to bots, bots are just computers, not proper cyborgs.

From a programming perspective it would be completely insane to design a combat robot that has the ability to roam semi-freely and have it agress people illegally holding a weapon, and then have it so that people who are assigned to have a weapon as part of a standard list of supplies not legally own it. Nanotrasen is stupid and lazy, but that level of nonsense streches belief just a bit too much.

[paprika]

Syringe guns are not inherently deadly weapons, this is a bug

If they were deadly weapons medical staff wouldn't get them by default

Tasers are non-lethal - should beepsky ignore those too?

Tasers deliver disabling, high-power electroshocks to people, and are behind a gun permit for this reason. Don't be stupid.

[Malkevin]

The Syringe Gun is not built to harm, only misuse/abuse would cause this to happen, thus, it should not be considered a weapon by Beepsky. A taser is built for the express purpose of harming another human being, so it should count as a weapon by Beepsky.

Uhhh.... no. Tasers are not deadly weapons, unless you abuse/misuse them to stun + cuff then butt smack someone to death.

Syringe guns at the end of the day are tranquilizer guns, sure you can load them with tricord/doc's_delight/etc, but you can (and I see more often filled with) load them with mutagen/chlora/sleeptox/etc, so they're far from being a solely medical tool. They're basically there so medical can chase down crazies and shoot them with sleep toxin, not because you want to override people's right to refuse medical treatment.
You might argue the same can be said about pills or syringes, but those don't instantly deliver 15 units at range.


I don't really have a problem with MDs using syringe guns for medical reasons, but I really don't like the suggested solutions - we either:
A. Give Medical Doctors Weapon's Permit access, which means they can carry any weapon from a Disabler to syringe gun, right up to and beyond a freaking Pulse Rifle - all without Beepsky batting an eyelid. Think about that in Summon Guns.
B. Make the syringe gun not be classed as a weapon. This would mean any Clown/Botanist/Assistant/Etc can steal a syringe gun and use it to shoot people, without them being able to do anything about it, with Mindbreaker/Chlora/Sleeptox/Mutagen/Various Bar Drinks.

Neither one of those is good, B is the least damaging though. So if I had to go with one of those I'd go with B.

The other alternative is to make Beepsky's checks more convoluted.
C: When Beepsky detects someone carrying a gun and they don't have Weapons Access it would then check if that gun is a syringe gun and then if that person has medbay access; if they do it gives them a pass, if they don't it attempts to arrest.

[dezzmont]

I don't think anyone is seriously sugesting A.

I think the better question is "Should beepsky be important enough a part of security protocol that he get all these weird exceptions?"

He isn't meant to be some ultra-robust beat cop. He mostly is there to prevent assholes from being super overt with stolen sec guns or traitor weapons and to make arrest warrants somewhat more robust by taking down people who are not alert to his abilities. He should be dumb enough to easily avoid if you take precautions, and certain obvious weapon like tools being legal is helpful for that.

If the clown gets a dart gun then the damage he can do is ultimately somewhat limited and requires a lot of work, getting syringes from different medkits, getting chemicals from chemistry or the bar, ect. It is more likely he might take it from a CMO and fire off one dart, but if he does actually go through that much work as opposed to ust taking a taser a tiny advantage in the form of beepsky needing to be manually set to attack him is fine.

[Raven776]

The syringe gun is not a weapon at all. It's a tool. Beepsky doesn't arrest for fireaxes, spears, IEDs, and numerous other 'weapons.' I don't think he even arrests for grenades, which are chemistry's real killers.

[Malkevin]

Absence of classification doesn't mean not of a class

[dezzmont]

Absence of classification doesn't mean not of a class

To beepsky it does. Beepsky is not capable of lateral thinking, it can only recognize a weapon or not-weapon and who is holding it to see if they have access to ALL weapons.

[fleure]

Beepsky should whitelist tools that can be missapropriated to be weapons

This is exactly how Beepsky works at the moment. The list is as follows:

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-statio ... bot.dm#L31

Code: Select all

var/safe_weapons = list(\
  /obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/laser/bluetag,\
  /obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/laser/redtag,\
  /obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/laser/practice,\
  /obj/item/weapon/melee/classic_baton/telescopic,\
  /obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/kinetic_accelerator)

Beepsky's weapon check simply checks for any items of type gun or melee in the code in someone's hands, then checks the "safe_weapons" list, which the syringe gun is not in, and therefore causes arrest. We can easily put the syringe gun in that list.

[Vigilare]

You can fit lethal injection syringes (the ones from the execution room) into a syringe gun.

Enjoy.

[rockpecker]

A. Give Medical Doctors Weapon's Permit access, which means they can carry any weapon from a Disabler to syringe gun, right up to and beyond a freaking Pulse Rifle - all without Beepsky batting an eyelid. Think about that in Summon Guns.
B. Make the syringe gun not be classed as a weapon. This would mean any Clown/Botanist/Assistant/Etc can steal a syringe gun and use it to shoot people, without them being able to do anything about it, with Mindbreaker/Chlora/Sleeptox/Mutagen/Various Bar Drinks.

Neither one of those is good, B is the least damaging though. So if I had to go with one of those I'd go with B.

B is fine, I think. If you really need Beepsky to arrest the guy, you can still put a warrant on him.

[Incomptinence]

Floral somatoray is also not on safe weapons despite not being a lethal gun at all, compared to syringe guns which are at least potentially dangerous and can come in a 4 chambered version.

[Malkevin]

Floral Somotorays are dangerous to plantmen... round start plantmen when?

[Somejerk]

You can fit lethal injection syringes (the ones from the execution room) into a syringe gun.

Enjoy.

What if Potassium, aren't spessmen full of water?

[DemonFiren]

Spessmen are full of blood . Blood contains no water.

[FudgePucker]

and can come in a 4 chambered version.

Rapid fire syringe guns have 6 chambers not 4.