Firing Pins

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:09 am #57446

Details here: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/6925
Please read it all before commenting.

I've gotten some feedback already on some things:

Antags getting guns. What would the preferred method be? Some suggestions so far have been 1tc Firing Pins in Uplink, pins available in the Protolathe with Syndi research, emagging guns to bypass the pin restriction.

Replacing pins. At the moment, this isn't possible, though I've gotten lots of requests for it already and I'd like to add it somehow eventually. How should this be done? It should be something that's difficult.
My idea was some sort of gun-tinkering-station available in the Armory, which would give Wardens something to fool around with on slow rounds.

Explosive implants on Ops. I do not think that explosive implants have a positive effect on the game. They do not perform their role of equipment denial very well, while they're great at their side-effect of denying the operatives a team-mate and denying the players of interesting opportunities. I would really prefer if they weren't default equipment, as put forth in the PR.
Some people feel the auth implant isn't enough. Should we discuss possible alternate methods of equipment denial?

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:12 am #57448

Nuke ops losing their weapons is a big part of gameplay. Explosive implants not being a perfect method of equipment denial is perfectly fine, good even, though perhaps linking it to succumb rather than crit would be helpful. I like the idea overall though, especially as a lockbox replacement.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:19 am #57452

The one issue that i see is that eventually pins will stop anyone who isnt Sec or an antag from picking up and using guns. What happens in situations where a non-antag sees a gunfight where the good guys go down? He cannot pick up a weapon to defend the station because its restricted by a pin?

So long as the pin system is limited to syndie and R&D created weapons.

ExplosiveCrate · Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:24 am

I have never seen anyone roleplay being captured as a nuke op, and I highly doubt that anyone would bother trying if nuke ops didn't have explosive implants. They can be recognized at a glance by the operatives, so keeping then alive would be a detriment because the ops have the opportunity to free them.

Removing the implants just makes it so the crew can obtain most of the op's equipment without any real risk after downing an operative. Minibombs, red buttons, weapons, the syndie headset, the agent ID card, the pinpointer, etc.

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:34 am #57454

Alex Crimson wrote:The one issue that i see is that eventually pins will stop anyone who isnt Sec or an antag from picking up and using guns. What happens in situations where a non-antag sees a gunfight where the good guys go down? He cannot pick up a weapon to defend the station because its restricted by a pin?

So long as the pin system is limited to syndie and R&D created weapons.

If Sec chose to get loyalty pins put into their weapons, then he wouldn't be able to, no. That's the double-edged sword, loyalty pins lock out non-implanted do-gooders as well.
Keep in mind that I don't expect (or intend) Sec to go full loyalty every round. The required supplies are:

Code: Select all

req_tech = list("combat" = 5, "materials" = 3, "powerstorage" = 3)
materials = list("$silver" = 600, "$diamond" = 600, "$uranium" = 200)

So they're not particularly expensive, but they do require a range of rarer materials and pretty high combat research. If people think they're too cheap I'll happily raise the cost.

Keep in mind the current rate of how often Sec gets new equipment from R&D.

I don't see it very often.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:45 am #57456

You can get Combat Tech 5 with Durand weapon boards, so its not hard to get. You can get Combat tech 5 without leaving the Science department. Combat Tech 6 is the one thats harder, as you need a Combat Shotgun from Cargo crates. Diamonds however arnt all that common, so i doubt we will be seeing many of those loyalty firing pins, which should be fine.

How do the "Testing-range pins" work? How do they know they are in a testing range?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:47 am #57457

The only guns that should have the "Loyalty Pins" should be the Captains Antique Laser and maybe any unique gun the HoS starts with.

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:56 am #57460

Alex Crimson wrote:You can get Combat Tech 5 with Durand weapon boards, so its not hard to get. You can get Combat tech 5 without leaving the Science department. Combat Tech 6 is the one thats harder, as you need a Combat Shotgun from Cargo crates. Diamonds however arnt all that common, so i doubt we will be seeing many of those loyalty firing pins, which should be fine.

How do the "Testing-range pins" work? How do they know they are in a testing range?

Maybe they should be Combat 6, then?

The test pins check for a magnet control (the thingie that makes the targets move around) within 3 tiles. Basing it on /area could have worked too but would be more prone to breaking on different maps. So no you can't drag a target around the halls with you

Steelpoint wrote:The only guns that should have the "Loyalty Pins" should be the Captains Antique Laser and maybe any unique gun the HoS starts with.

They're not default equipment at all. Any guns on the map start with a default firing pin which simply makes the gun shoot and have no additional checks. Loyalty pins are supposed to be high-grade researchables.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:01 am #57461

Could you make it so there is a safe fire zone object? Something that is under tiles and can be built and expanded by wiring a larger area? Not as simple as slapping down 4 objects, but enough so that the scientists could theoretically make areas in science they can shoot from.

May be a bit much though. The pins look neat overall.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:22 am #57490

Alex Crimson wrote:You can get Combat Tech 5 with Durand weapon boards, so its not hard to get. You can get Combat tech 5 without leaving the Science department. Combat Tech 6 is the one thats harder, as you need a Combat Shotgun from Cargo crates. Diamonds however arnt all that common, so i doubt we will be seeing many of those loyalty firing pins, which should be fine.

How do the "Testing-range pins" work? How do they know they are in a testing range?

Durand boards should be Origin Tech Combat 5. So they would get you to lv 6

Alex Crimson · Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:31 am

cedarbridge wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:You can get Combat Tech 5 with Durand weapon boards, so its not hard to get. You can get Combat tech 5 without leaving the Science department. Combat Tech 6 is the one thats harder, as you need a Combat Shotgun from Cargo crates. Diamonds however arnt all that common, so i doubt we will be seeing many of those loyalty firing pins, which should be fine.

How do the "Testing-range pins" work? How do they know they are in a testing range?
Durand boards should be Origin Tech Combat 5. So they would get you to lv 6

Na, they are Combat Tech 4, so they get you to 5. Unless they have been changed recently. Just checked on a private server to be sure.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:03 pm #57527

The pins seem cool, but i am in the boat that feels like losing explosive implants is not a positive change.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:34 pm #57541

So, how does a firing pin fit in an energy gun, again?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:35 pm #57542

DemonFiren wrote:So, how does a firing pin fit in an energy gun, again?

Magic?

That or change it so that Energy weapons use some kind of Laser Crystal or something that is essentially just a renamed firing pin.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:39 pm #57543

Or assume that cartridges are electrically ignited, and that thing really is a piezo crystal with some sensors hooked up.

Unrestricted units could be gotten from the armoury, maaaybe salvaged from guns or gotten with Illegal 4.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:09 pm #57548

If Sec chose to get loyalty pins put into their weapons, then he wouldn't be able to, no. That's the double-edged sword, loyalty pins lock out non-implanted do-gooders as well.

I don't really see any upside to this. It just seems like a bad thing. Even if it was an antag who managed to steal a gun or something.
Especially for antags I guess. If they manage to get one of those guns, it's pretty important that they be able to use it. Why should they be screwed because there's a security-wins pin in the gun?

The nuke ops bit is pretty great though, I'm into that.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:46 pm #57571

Bio-linked weapons for Ops guns, thinking like a combination of finger print,blood, and voice will allow it to fire, like a code phrase that only that nuke ops' voice will trigger. Loyalty locked implant seems silly because what if an antag wants to print out a few goodies from the protolathe only to find them useless, this can apply to cult and rev too that you NEED that implant to work a gun before hand.

Snakebutt · Post by **Snakebutt** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:54 pm #57586

The inner gun nut in me SCREAMS at the thought of this locking mechanism being called a 'firing pin'. It's the part that hits the bullet to make it go off, a gun without one doesn't work, full stop.

You seem to be talking about some kind of ID locking for high tier guns. This being sci-fi, why the fuck not. Metal Gear style guns that are either keyed to an individual (like a mech can be, fluffed as reading fingerprints on the grip or scanning the unique electrical signature of their skin), or just being some kind of MGS4 ID lock specific to people with the right implants. Keeps HoP from going full vigilante, keeps tiders from getting (too) heavily armed, less headaches for robusted sec who get their shit stolen.

All antag issues can be solved with the skeleton key, aka emagging the lock/scanner, making it free access. Downside is it doesn't really change how guns work for science, as is the only way to open lockboxes is an emag or help from sec, which will remain with this change. I suppose there's always the improvised gun though.

M0nsoon · Post by **M0nsoon** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:46 pm #57636

When facepunch was still around, ALL sec guns were loyalty locked, but if you had security access you could unlock a gun by swiping it with an ID, which is a way officers could hand out guns to fair station citizens during blob/nuke/cult. Additionally they had it so an explosive implant would count as a loyalty implant so a nefarious traitor somehow got a gun but no ID, they could still use said gun at the cost of exploding on death.

Durkel · Post by **Durkel** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:29 am #57652

A interesting concept, however I feel the only people that actually need a locking mechanism on a gun is a nuke ops team. Losing a saw is a absolute nightmare, but losing the explosive implant for this feature wouldn't be favorable either.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:30 am #57675

I really dislike this. I get SMGs printed from RnD all the time and get HoS to unlock them to go goliath hunting with. Not being able to fire the guns that I brought the minerals for is really annoying and dumb.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:35 am #57680

iyaerP wrote:I really dislike this. I get SMGs printed from RnD all the time and get HoS to unlock them to go goliath hunting with. Not being able to fire the guns that I brought the minerals for is really annoying and dumb.

That's like complaining when security doesn't allow you to walk around in a gygax you brought the materials for. As far as I'm concerned, miners aren't entitled to shit and their points are the 'reward' you get for bringing in minerals.

Snakebutt · Post by **Snakebutt** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:43 am #57683

iyaerP wrote:I really dislike this. I get SMGs printed from RnD all the time and get HoS to unlock them to go goliath hunting with. Not being able to fire the guns that I brought the minerals for is really annoying and dumb.

If you're dealing with sec anyways, you can get a loyalty implant to make it work.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:02 am #57690

HoS is far less likely to hand out one of the three starting loyalty implants than he is to unlock a box for me. And I don't want to give up my freedom of thought just so I can kill goliaths effectively.

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:33 am #57732

iyaerP wrote:I really dislike this. I get SMGs printed from RnD all the time and get HoS to unlock them to go goliath hunting with. Not being able to fire the guns that I brought the minerals for is really annoying and dumb.

The people saying this have not read the PR properly.

STANDARD firing pins will be available from the armory. You put it into a gun, and it makes it work. This serves the exact same role as the HoS/Warden unlocking an lockbox. The advantage? Lockboxes basically require one of three situations:

The Warden/HoS has to walk down to R&D and open all the boxes manually.
Sci needs to drag bulky lockboxes down to Sec in a locker and stand awkwardly at the entrance until he can flag someone down to get them unlocked.
Sci gets Armory access themselves to open the boxes.

Pins are an item that aren't useful by themselves like Armory access is, so the Warden can have them delivered to Sci by another officer, or by mail. They serve the same purpose as a lockbox, but more conveniently and more fluff-friendly than the old common complaint of "Why is this gun I just researched myself in a BOX"

Test-range pins and loyalty pins are not meant to be standard-use things for all R&D guns.

Snakebutt wrote:The inner gun nut in me SCREAMS at the thought of this locking mechanism being called a 'firing pin'. It's the part that hits the bullet to make it go off, a gun without one doesn't work, full stop.

That's the case here. The only guns that are pinless are those made in R&D. Others have a standard pin installed.

DemonFiren wrote:Or assume that cartridges are electrically ignited, and that thing really is a piezo crystal with some sensors hooked up.

Yeah, this is kind of what I had in mind-fluffwise. It's a device that serves the role of an actual firing pin in conventional firearms, and in energy weapons it acts as a power conduit which serves the same role.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:35 am #57748

Cheridan wrote:Pins are an item that aren't useful by themselves like Armory access is, so the Warden can have them delivered to Sci by another officer, or by mail. They serve the same purpose as a lockbox, but more conveniently and more fluff-friendly than the old common complaint of "Why is this gun I just researched myself in a BOX"

So what about traitor scientists now who can no longer emag lockboxes to get their guns? I know it was mentioned before but this is still a pretty strong point.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:44 am #57750

Emagging a pin I think removes all restrictions, so they could make a test range pin and emag that.

Bonus points is that it is way more subtle because it would be less strange for a scientist to have a gun.

Question though, how does the station get more blank firing pins? Could we potentially get something to create them in the armory, considering they presumably are just some gizmo that has no complicated parts or software if they are basic.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:46 am #57751

I think the idea was R&D themselves or Cargo would be the chokepoint of new pins. Although if R&D can just print themselves new regular pins then...

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:53 am #57754

Saegrimr wrote:I think the idea was R&D themselves or Cargo would be the chokepoint of new pins. Although if R&D can just print themselves new regular pins then...

Yeah that doesn't work, and having a set limited amount of firing pins could get really annoying really quick.

Frankly each department having their own fabricator for minor items (Firing pins for sec, pill bottles for medical, ect) that are not significant enough for cargo deliveries has a lot of benefit for the game and giving the RD the ability to grant them specific blueprints reduces the primacy of R&D as the entry point for all the new toys, but that is way beyond this change's scope. A simple "Want pin? Got armory access?" wall mount would handle that.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:09 am #57767

Honestly this feels like it should be put on an RP sever more than LiteRP TG. This hinders traitors and any hero on the station because a mandatory need to get an implant to use a fucking gun. Do real guns suddenly just don't want to work if the enemy or a civilian picks it up? The answer is no it doesn't now I'm in favor of having makable Bio-linked weapons and bio-linked weapons for the Ops but definitely not something station wide.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:08 am #57773

RG4 wrote:The answer is no it doesn't now I'm in favor of having makable Bio-linked weapons and bio-linked weapons for the Ops but definitely not something station wide.

You know if this is about the station grabbing nukeop guns and not being able to use them, maybe go down a different route. Gloves.

Theres all sorts of gimmicky gun safety things being developed now, from proximity rings/wristwatches to straight up biometrics on the grip itself, so lock the nukeops guns to a special set of tacticool gloves that they spawn with. Keep the explosive implants, so if the Op didn't deathgasp like a fucking scrub then they can loot his gloves to use his gun. However if he's smart and booms, then even if he drops his gun from going into crit or stun, they can't just use it against everyone.

As far as R&D lockboxes, theres much weirder shit going on than a locked box popping out of a protolathe. Whatever that weird-ass machine is that spits out food and gravitational anomalies whenever you shove people's shoes into it comes to mind.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:46 pm #57963

Saegrimr wrote:
RG4 wrote:The answer is no it doesn't now I'm in favor of having makable Bio-linked weapons and bio-linked weapons for the Ops but definitely not something station wide.
You know if this is about the station grabbing nukeop guns and not being able to use them, maybe go down a different route. Gloves.

Theres all sorts of gimmicky gun safety things being developed now, from proximity rings/wristwatches to straight up biometrics on the grip itself, so lock the nukeops guns to a special set of tacticool gloves that they spawn with. Keep the explosive implants, so if the Op didn't deathgasp like a fucking scrub then they can loot his gloves to use his gun. However if he's smart and booms, then even if he drops his gun from going into crit or stun, they can't just use it against everyone.

As far as R&D lockboxes, theres much weirder shit going on than a locked box popping out of a protolathe. Whatever that weird-ass machine is that spits out food and gravitational anomalies whenever you shove people's shoes into it comes to mind.

Hold the fuck up, right now. That is a genius idea.

Delicious wrote: I see that this probably intentional, but when did R&D guns become an issue? Is the armoury access requirement, the research requirement and the materials requirement not enough to keep the amount of them down?

They've never been a problem outside of random nutters with access popping into RD with access to nab them. Otherwise they're not worth getting except x-rays and ion guns. Trust me I love being RD and find that printing guns outside of an actual emergency is pointless.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:48 pm #57999

Saegrimr wrote:
RG4 wrote:The answer is no it doesn't now I'm in favor of having makable Bio-linked weapons and bio-linked weapons for the Ops but definitely not something station wide.
You know if this is about the station grabbing nukeop guns and not being able to use them, maybe go down a different route. Gloves.

Theres all sorts of gimmicky gun safety things being developed now, from proximity rings/wristwatches to straight up biometrics on the grip itself, so lock the nukeops guns to a special set of tacticool gloves that they spawn with. Keep the explosive implants, so if the Op didn't deathgasp like a fucking scrub then they can loot his gloves to use his gun. However if he's smart and booms, then even if he drops his gun from going into crit or stun, they can't just use it against everyone.

As far as R&D lockboxes, theres much weirder shit going on than a locked box popping out of a protolathe. Whatever that weird-ass machine is that spits out food and gravitational anomalies whenever you shove people's shoes into it comes to mind.

Interesting, my only concern is that combat gloves blow the cover of stealthops.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:42 pm #58030

leibniz wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
RG4 wrote:The answer is no it doesn't now I'm in favor of having makable Bio-linked weapons and bio-linked weapons for the Ops but definitely not something station wide.
You know if this is about the station grabbing nukeop guns and not being able to use them, maybe go down a different route. Gloves.

Theres all sorts of gimmicky gun safety things being developed now, from proximity rings/wristwatches to straight up biometrics on the grip itself, so lock the nukeops guns to a special set of tacticool gloves that they spawn with. Keep the explosive implants, so if the Op didn't deathgasp like a fucking scrub then they can loot his gloves to use his gun. However if he's smart and booms, then even if he drops his gun from going into crit or stun, they can't just use it against everyone.

As far as R&D lockboxes, theres much weirder shit going on than a locked box popping out of a protolathe. Whatever that weird-ass machine is that spits out food and gravitational anomalies whenever you shove people's shoes into it comes to mind.
Interesting, my only concern is that combat gloves blow the cover of stealthops.

Change item name to black gloves. I've done with the HoS' stamp and insulated gloves.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:13 pm #58277

leibniz wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
RG4 wrote:The answer is no it doesn't now I'm in favor of having makable Bio-linked weapons and bio-linked weapons for the Ops but definitely not something station wide.
You know if this is about the station grabbing nukeop guns and not being able to use them, maybe go down a different route. Gloves.

Theres all sorts of gimmicky gun safety things being developed now, from proximity rings/wristwatches to straight up biometrics on the grip itself, so lock the nukeops guns to a special set of tacticool gloves that they spawn with. Keep the explosive implants, so if the Op didn't deathgasp like a fucking scrub then they can loot his gloves to use his gun. However if he's smart and booms, then even if he drops his gun from going into crit or stun, they can't just use it against everyone.

As far as R&D lockboxes, theres much weirder shit going on than a locked box popping out of a protolathe. Whatever that weird-ass machine is that spits out food and gravitational anomalies whenever you shove people's shoes into it comes to mind.
Interesting, my only concern is that combat gloves blow the cover of stealthops.

No more than their bowman headsets do. If they want to stealthop they should probably take their gloves off while wandering and put them back on when they're ready to start shooting.

I am very concerned about this focus on loyalty implants though. Wizards, Revs, and cultists aren't going to get implanted to use stolen guns. Unless I'm missing something and this is only for R&D weapons or something. This really seems like a hard-RP feature seeking a purpose on a server that would never really need it or want it.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:55 pm #58314

Another thing that hasn't been brought up yet, is that often times in emergencies, a warden or HoS might hand out the armoury to members of the crew to fight wizard/blob/ops/whatever. If the guns being handed out don't do anything without the loyalty implant, this will severely impact the crew in those gamemodes.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:56 pm #58315

As noted in the PR.

ALL GUNS START WITH A STANDARD FIRING PIN.

Nothing starts with a "Loyalty Pin" or anything like that, so in effect this change will only affect Scientist players.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:26 pm #58321

Steelpoint wrote:As noted in the PR.

ALL GUNS START WITH A STANDARD FIRING PIN.

Nothing starts with a "Loyalty Pin" or anything like that, so in effect this change will only affect Scientist players.

Or anyone who gains access to the R&D console with an active protolathe.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:01 pm #58365

So what are we hoping to acomplish with this change? It's already been established that we don't want to gimp antags access to guns, but how much does this effect non antags getting guns?

Currently they need armory access, which only three people on the station have, who all are able to hand out weaponry if needed anyway. If the hop is giving out access to the armory randomly, then he's a fucking dong and should get arrested and demoted for it.
AFAIK, there is no way to open a lockbox other then proper access or an emag, where as it's relatively easy to blow open crates from cargo to get weapons that way.

Also loyalty pins dick over revs HARD, if sci manages to make any.

Also don't remove the explosive implants. They are EXTREMELY vital to ops. Without them, the crew get their headsets -comms compromised-, their pinpointers -vital as shit- and hardsuits -let them pursue ops into space- as well as whatever other weapons and gear that the ops had on them.
The ONLY gun that ops seriously need locked, is the SAW, because it's such a massive investment and so potentially deadly. I've disarmed an op, grabbed an L6 and murdered 3 ops all in about a minute before.
Hence why I suggested syndie pins for ops, at 1tc each. Worth putting on all your guns? Probably not. Worth putting in your L6? Fuck yeah.

ExplosiveCrate · Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:21 pm

leibniz wrote: Interesting, my only concern is that combat gloves blow the cover of stealthops.

There's a few boxes of crayons and some laundry machines in the op base.

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:50 pm #58408

I hope to god this is the exception where something doesn't get merged if there is serious opposition
but realistically I just rue the day this does get merged.

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:07 pm #58415

itt lots of people who can't read despite being explicitly told to read the entire PR and being given talking points

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:12 am #58549

I've read it a few times over :I

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:04 am #58584

Update:

Loyalty pins have been removed entirely
Pins are now emaggable to override the locks

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:25 pm #58659

Delicious wrote:So there are standard pins in security, and test range pins in the protolathe? Can R&D get cargo to send them over some standard pins so they can print their weapons without security's involvement?

Almost certainly not because cargo is not allowed to open weapons crates and this change was literally done so that science wouldn't have to handle lockboxes to deconstruct things. It in no way was an attempt to make it easier to go back to the days where everyone on the station had a stun revolver because science could print them, which definitely was a thing.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:07 pm #58662

ExplosiveCrate wrote:
leibniz wrote: Interesting, my only concern is that combat gloves blow the cover of stealthops.
There's a few boxes of crayons and some laundry machines in the op base.

I just tested this, washing combat gloves with crayons or stamps has no effect.

And yeah, bowman headsets arent really good, they shouldnt have them.
Just like how they spawn with Syndicate "I am valid, kill me" Masks instead of gas masks.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:44 pm #58778

uwotm8?
Bowman headsets give you flashbang protection. They also have regular headsets in their lockers, if they want to go stealth.
Why would they wear the syndie mask when going stealth? Unless you're literally grouped together, or have some retarded team last name, no one will off hand find you suspicious, and regular gas masks aren't hard to find in maint.
Also for real stealth they can get voice changers.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:07 pm #58790

lumipharon wrote:uwotm8?
Bowman headsets give you flashbang protection. They also have regular headsets in their lockers, if they want to go stealth.
Why would they wear the syndie mask when going stealth? Unless you're literally grouped together, or have some retarded team last name, no one will off hand find you suspicious, and regular gas masks aren't hard to find in maint.
Also for real stealth they can get voice changers.

I thought helmets had the protection. I'll test it later.
Anyway, you should know that last names are commonly stuff like "assnigger", etc. and it would be nice if I didnt have to spend TC just to hide that.
And gas masks in maint can be far from the entry points, adding to the chance of premature discovery.