CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

User avatar
Shadowflame909
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Byond Username: Shadowflame909

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Shadowflame909 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:19 pm #537773

Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Sheodir wrote:And hey, worst case scenario, we split a LRP and MRP codease. God knows I'm done with CRAB-17 in MRP.

May as well make one the normal codebase and the other the HRP codebase if that happens because MRP dies if it requires a different playstyle due to code changes.


I'd be fine with this if it means I can keep OP stuff in like ash Drake transformation. There's no threat on MRP. Best you get is a spooky carriage ride.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?



PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:28 pm.
Reason: why do you ?

Muncher21
 
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:53 pm
Byond Username: Muncher21

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Muncher21 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:11 pm #537779

BadSS13Player wrote:Setting up the default SM setup is quite quick and takes 0 thought

Absolutely not true, you only think that because you've done it a million times. If you really want to argue this, revival is just mechanical button clicks once you've learned how to do it, same as the SM.

BadSS13Player wrote:won't be diminishing anyone's fun if you don't do it as quick as possible.

I'm completely fine with massively increasing MD's fun at the expense of a few minutes of an ADHD greytiders time. Death isn't supposed to be fun.

BadSS13Player wrote:Cryo is basically the only way to cure toxin damage or all-around high amounts of damage without consequences or without waiting a long time.

Oh, you don't play the game, or know nothing about current medbay. Got it.

Bonus meme:
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:12 am #537787

BadSS13Player wrote:This change kinda fucks with plasmamen a lot, making the only roundstart available revival method be a transplant to a human body or Strange Reagent (which is only theoretically roundstart available).


Just insert a heart and defib as normal 8-)

User avatar
nianjiilical
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:30 am
Byond Username: Nianjiilical

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby nianjiilical » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:11 am #537792

Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Sheodir wrote:And hey, worst case scenario, we split a LRP and MRP codease. God knows I'm done with CRAB-17 in MRP.

May as well make one the normal codebase and the other the HRP codebase if that happens because MRP dies if it requires a different playstyle due to code changes.


it shouldnt be a separate codebase but some way to just flag things as 'no-mrp' in the code and have it be a server config would be good in the long term
human: ramon chivara
ai: shitpost generator
borg: shite-115
clown: donk tonkler
mime: beautiful noise

User avatar
PKPenguin321
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Byond Username: PKPenguin321
Github Username: PKPenguin321

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:57 am #537834

skoglol wrote:
BadSS13Player wrote:This change kinda fucks with plasmamen a lot, making the only roundstart available revival method be a transplant to a human body or Strange Reagent (which is only theoretically roundstart available).


Just insert a heart and defib as normal 8-)

if this actually works that's pretty epic
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
Image

Kryson
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Kryson

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Kryson » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:59 am #537836

BadSS13Player wrote:Additionally, I don't really like surgery that much. It takes a long time and isn't very engaging, it's just the same steps every time with no space to innovate/improvise. The tend wounds surgeries are by far the biggest offenders, being three-step surgeries which take a very long time to complete (especially if the patient has clothes on).


Take the patients clothes off and spray them with a steriliser to make it faster. But yes, i want surgery to have a larger skill depth. It is probably not the time to that though until things have settled after the cloning removal.

BadSS13Player wrote:This change kinda fucks with plasmamen a lot, making the only roundstart available revival method be a transplant to a human body or Strange Reagent (which is only theoretically roundstart available).


I believe you can put a heart into a plasmaman and defib. Strange reagent is available roundstart if you want it to be, run to chapel and ask the chap to bless your water, it works every time. Failing that, mutate melons in the garden, you have dispenser access.

BadSS13Player wrote:Epipens are a rare-ish non-recyclable item. Paramedics already start with a bottle of formaldehyde and a syringe, it should probably be their job to do it.

The formaldehyde recipe is really easy and you have dispenser access, you can even apply it instantly on most patients with the dropper or damp rag. You can buy more epipens for 300 credits if you are lazy, I sometimes buy a few when i have bought my amputation shears.

BadSS13Player wrote:Cryo is basically the only way to cure toxin damage [...]without consequences or without waiting a long time. It is also usable when there are no MDs around.

Syriniver drips cures toxin damage faster than cryo, you just need to keep an eye on their syriniver levels and liver status. Being easy to use with no doctor around is a bad thing, healing should be difficult with no doctors.


NoxVS wrote:I think the limb grower should become a roundstart machine now that you can’t clone. It’s either that or have engineering build one every shift. In reality it rarely gets built, along with other medical machinery like the organ harvester


Getting limbs and organs is already too easy now.

User avatar
saprasam
 
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:42 pm
Byond Username: Saprasam

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby saprasam » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:36 am #537842

nothing can change my mind that this is fucking stupid, i'd rather not spend 15 minutes being revived/reviving somebody because their neck split from their head, also noticed that if somebody went the extra mile and got rid of medical protolathe and defibs through ??? means that basically means permadeath unless botany isnt retarded
i do not like this change
Image
(FORMER) tgmc admin (I HAVE REGAINED MY HUMAN RIGHTS)

User avatar
Grazyn
 
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
Byond Username: Grazyn

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Grazyn » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:58 am #537849

Anuv wrote:Have cloning someone bring their ghost into a dangerous and scary world of purgatory. Smoke, chasms, spirit monsters. Only if you can manage to get out do you get cloned.

Something like the bubblegum shuttle arena where they have to fight mobs, player-controlled and not, and other dead players. I like this

User avatar
deedubya
Confined to the shed
 
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:05 am
Location: shitting up your thread
Byond Username: Deedubya

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby deedubya » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:15 am #537853

Muncher21 wrote:
BadSS13Player wrote:Cryo is basically the only way to cure toxin damage or all-around high amounts of damage without consequences or without waiting a long time.

Oh, you don't play the game, or know nothing about current medbay. Got it.

Bonus meme:
Spoiler:
Image

He's right though. For toxins around 60+, or massive damage pre-surgery upgrades; cryo is the most effective method of treatment. It's also the most braindead for a non-doctor to use, which is good for lowpop/shitter medic rounds.
Galatians 4:16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
hey imma teegee admeme compliment me on my appearance here

flattering compliments people have given me:
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head

wesoda25 wrote:deedub is one of the people that makes me wish i could block users on forums

IkeTG wrote:every post from deedubya is worrying behavior

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you're a poo head!!!!!

TheMythicGhost wrote:You're a moron, but that's really nothing new since you're Deedubya, and really at this point I'm just playing an instrument by speaking since your head is so goddamn empty these words are resonating as they pass through.

Lazengann wrote:What's interesting about deedubya is the guy has no reading skills or comprehension and his ADHD is so severe he can't read through a single thread but he shows up to argue anyway

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:you really are almost superhumanly retarded dude, holy smokes.

Image

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:21 am #537859

i dont think people who say cryo is faster than any other medical treatment are serious or even human beings, a literal bandage + a patch from the vendor fixes half your problems the other half is fixed in green medkits

if you think curing the patient who got hit by a rocket will take more than 5 min to fix becuase you literally not have any chemical, surgery tech, etc just find the barman monkey and head transfrer (2 surgeries with 3 steps each) lava'd miner? monkey swap, everything else is easly fixable organs dont degrate completly withing 15min which means they SELF HEAL once the dude is alive, and most side effects of damaged organs are barely noticeable and will disappear in 2min, the only thing that stops you from defibbing someone is having 180+ brute/burn damage which you can fix it just enough to defib and then heal with chems or white medkit or using the free treat wounds surgery or if you are on a hurry just splash sinthflesh on the idiot . poisons? pentetic acid poof radiations? pentetic acid poof too retarded to follow botton pressing youtube pentetic acid tutorial? use the retarded stomach pump surgery which you can do on a fucking stasis bed that removes any effort of thinking and doing shit fast . brain damage? retarded chems or retarded surgery poof nothing more than 10 clicks, blood loss? click with bandage, bucke to stasis bed and play a mini game of finding which blood you can insert into a man, but even if you are dumb enough to give the dude the wrong blood letter there is little to 0 negative effects as you can just give him pentetic acid or lung-be-gone multiver to remove the toxins
you cant do the medjob during a revolition or ops or murderbone mc joe with carp agressively hugging people in the halls? play on manuel so you can treat your 3 o'clock appendix while roleplaying as succubus md doc (male)

User avatar
Timonk
 
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:27 pm
Location: ur mum
Byond Username: Timonk

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Timonk » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:24 pm #537867

You can do engineering but you can't do md

Murderbone bias???
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
Image



The pink arrow is always right.

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:28 pm #537868

deedubya wrote:
Muncher21 wrote:
BadSS13Player wrote:Cryo is basically the only way to cure toxin damage or all-around high amounts of damage without consequences or without waiting a long time.

Oh, you don't play the game, or know nothing about current medbay. Got it.

Bonus meme:
Spoiler:
Image

He's right though. For toxins around 60+, or massive damage pre-surgery upgrades; cryo is the most effective method of treatment. It's also the most braindead for a non-doctor to use, which is good for lowpop/shitter medic rounds.


Dee I gotta second what others have said and wonder how long has it been since you played Medbay in any real capacity. Cryo has become a bit of a meme for a reason - if anything it serves very little purpose right now. Other methods of treatment are much, much faster and more efficient which leads to using cryo being the hallmark of a completely new or inexperienced Doctor. Cryo hasn't been the "most efficient" method of high damage fixing since at least 2016 when I believe Cryoxadone got hard nerfed.
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

Muncher21
 
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:53 pm
Byond Username: Muncher21

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Muncher21 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:37 pm #537869

saprasam wrote:nothing can change my mind that this is fucking stupid, i'd rather not spend 15 minutes being revived/reviving somebody because their neck split from their head, also noticed that if somebody went the extra mile and got rid of medical protolathe and defibs through ??? means that basically means permadeath unless botany isnt retarded
i do not like this change

As the saying goes, "You can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into".

deedubya wrote:He's right though. For toxins around 60+, or massive damage pre-surgery upgrades; cryo is the most effective method of treatment. It's also the most braindead for a non-doctor to use, which is good for lowpop/shitter medic rounds.

Syriniver for toxin, for any other damage type, sutures or regenerative mesh work faster. If they're dead you have to do tend wounds anyways, cryo won't help them. The only use for cryo is if you are a lazy doctor, or have a massive queue of patients.

User avatar
peoplearestrange
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:02 pm
Location: UK
Byond Username: Peoplearestrange

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby peoplearestrange » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:18 pm #537876

I have a question:

Is "Original" cloning still possible? (i.e. brain swapping with monkey humans and then debriefing)?
Whatever
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:singulo.io is the center point of rational and calm debate, where much of tg's issues are worked out in a fun and family friendly environment

miggles wrote:it must have been quite the accomplishment, killing a dead butterfly

WeeYakk wrote:If you take a step back from everything watching the community argue janitor related changes is one of the most surreal and hilarious things about this game. Four pages of discussing the merits of there being too much or too little dirt in a video game.

Operative wrote:Vote PAS for headmin! Get cucked and feel good getting cucked.

TheNightingale wrote:I want to get off Mr. Scones's Wild Ride...

NikNakFlak wrote:Excuse you, I was doing intentional bug testing for the well being of the server. I do not make mistakes.

Fragnostic wrote:stop cucking the first shitshow ever that revolved around me.
This is my moment, what are you doing?!

Anonmare wrote:Oranges gestures at the thread, it shudders and begins to move!

Saegrimr wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:all you have to do is ban shitters until the playbase improves/ceases to exist, whichever comes first.

IM TRYING

Screemonster wrote:hellmoo is the mud for grown adults who main reaper in overwatch

Kor wrote:
confused rock wrote:...its like if we made fire extinguishers spawn in emergency boxes and have them heal you when you put out fires rather than them being in wall storages...


Are you having a stroke

bandit wrote:you are now manually GLORFing

MrStonedOne wrote:The best part about the election is when I announce my pick because I'm just as surprised as everybody else.

PM:[USER]->IrishWristWatch0: Yeah, im make it on but how im make the station to to sun and not go to sun

OOC: Francinum: Five Rounds at PAS's
"You are destinied to defeat Dr. Uguu and his 5 Robot Masters
(All-Access-Man, ShootyBlackCoat Man, ChloralHydrate Man, Singulo Man and TeleportArmor Man)"

I'm a box

User avatar
Cobby
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Cobby » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:26 pm #537882

Yes
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current

User avatar
peoplearestrange
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:02 pm
Location: UK
Byond Username: Peoplearestrange

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby peoplearestrange » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:13 pm #537885

Right so cloning DOES still exist. Just needs more steps.

The point im making is why not making cloning pods MORE complicated, make it so cloning someone requires effort? A thing akin to genetics or something?
Whatever
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:singulo.io is the center point of rational and calm debate, where much of tg's issues are worked out in a fun and family friendly environment

miggles wrote:it must have been quite the accomplishment, killing a dead butterfly

WeeYakk wrote:If you take a step back from everything watching the community argue janitor related changes is one of the most surreal and hilarious things about this game. Four pages of discussing the merits of there being too much or too little dirt in a video game.

Operative wrote:Vote PAS for headmin! Get cucked and feel good getting cucked.

TheNightingale wrote:I want to get off Mr. Scones's Wild Ride...

NikNakFlak wrote:Excuse you, I was doing intentional bug testing for the well being of the server. I do not make mistakes.

Fragnostic wrote:stop cucking the first shitshow ever that revolved around me.
This is my moment, what are you doing?!

Anonmare wrote:Oranges gestures at the thread, it shudders and begins to move!

Saegrimr wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:all you have to do is ban shitters until the playbase improves/ceases to exist, whichever comes first.

IM TRYING

Screemonster wrote:hellmoo is the mud for grown adults who main reaper in overwatch

Kor wrote:
confused rock wrote:...its like if we made fire extinguishers spawn in emergency boxes and have them heal you when you put out fires rather than them being in wall storages...


Are you having a stroke

bandit wrote:you are now manually GLORFing

MrStonedOne wrote:The best part about the election is when I announce my pick because I'm just as surprised as everybody else.

PM:[USER]->IrishWristWatch0: Yeah, im make it on but how im make the station to to sun and not go to sun

OOC: Francinum: Five Rounds at PAS's
"You are destinied to defeat Dr. Uguu and his 5 Robot Masters
(All-Access-Man, ShootyBlackCoat Man, ChloralHydrate Man, Singulo Man and TeleportArmor Man)"

I'm a box

User avatar
Shadowflame909
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Byond Username: Shadowflame909

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Shadowflame909 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:48 pm #537894

peoplearestrange wrote:Right so cloning DOES still exist. Just needs more steps.

The point im making is why not making cloning pods MORE complicated, make it so cloning someone requires effort? A thing akin to genetics or something?


We currently have the never used due to the tediousness of getting them exact: roundstart DNA number.

What if you had to match all those digits to clone someone.

Would take forever, would probably need some security to avoid sabotage making all your effort null to correct said 12 digits.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

User avatar
Arathian
 
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:02 pm
Byond Username: Arathian

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Arathian » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:54 pm #537895

peoplearestrange wrote:Right so cloning DOES still exist. Just needs more steps.

The point im making is why not making cloning pods MORE complicated, make it so cloning someone requires effort? A thing akin to genetics or something?


At the very least, this would fit with empty cloning. Someone's body is way too fucked? print an empty, brainless clone of them, shove in brain, defib, tadaa.

Fits with the new direction, keeps cloning code in and doesn't require raiding science to get monkey cubes. You still need to surgery someone, you still need to defib someone, you can fix completely destroyed bodies however.

I honestly don't understand why we have to get rid of the cloning machine entirely. Did it call someone's mothers nasty names? Did it ERP a felinid?
Iron, blood and spider armies

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:57 pm #537912

Arathian wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:Right so cloning DOES still exist. Just needs more steps.

The point im making is why not making cloning pods MORE complicated, make it so cloning someone requires effort? A thing akin to genetics or something?


At the very least, this would fit with empty cloning. Someone's body is way too fucked? print an empty, brainless clone of them, shove in brain, defib, tadaa.

Fits with the new direction, keeps cloning code in and doesn't require raiding science to get monkey cubes. You still need to surgery someone, you still need to defib someone, you can fix completely destroyed bodies however.

I honestly don't understand why we have to get rid of the cloning machine entirely. Did it call someone's mothers nasty names? Did it ERP a felinid?


Best way I can describe the thought process is that these changes are made to try and make specific things happen (MDs play more with medicine and surgery and make revivals more of an involved actual medical process) and having the machine still be around in its current form would negate that in favor of brainswaps and what not.

I can see the machine making a comeback in some form after adaption goes through, but it'd have to take a different shape and accomodate a lot of the feedback given thus far - having a cost for cloning, having it be more about brainswaps, etc
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:12 pm #537915

Ive been playing with the idea of a machine that prints a torso you can base a new body off of. Some assembly required.

But in most cases you already have that. Its the guy someone dragged in thats missing parts. The machine is pointless.

User avatar
Qbopper
 
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Qbopper » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:17 pm #537919

I haven't been keeping up with the cloning stuff - did defibs get a buff to help compensate? I remember a while back they got nerfed into the ground, but my medbay knowledge is lacking these days
Limey wrote:its too late.

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:35 pm #537934

skoglol wrote:Ive been playing with the idea of a machine that prints a torso you can base a new body off of. Some assembly required.

But in most cases you already have that. Its the guy someone dragged in thats missing parts. The machine is pointless.


Instead of a full machine I've been considering switching off a bit of the excess extra medbay space (see: Meta's absurdly large morgue) with a freezer. It'd start with a few organs and maybe a few spare body parts. Could have a few torsos, too.
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

User avatar
zxaber
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:00 am
Byond Username: Zxaber

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby zxaber » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:20 pm #537961

Played AI last night, watched a scientist get himself killed in an accidental toxins fire. CMO tried to bring him back, repairing his burns and brute damage, and replacing all his organs with cybernetics, but couldn't get him alive again. Eventually, after like 30 minutes of trying, the CMO gave up and went SSD. It was really all quite sad.

It seems that non-cloning fixes for heavy damage isn't quite well known yet. I've seen dead bodies that are most likely quite fixable go ignored by doctors or moved to the morgue because they either don't know how to fix them, or don't want to go through the effort.
Douglas Bickerson / Adaptive Manipulator / Digital Clockwork
Image
OrdoM/(Viktor Bergmannsen) (ghost) "Also Douglas, you're becoming the Lexia Black of Robotics"

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:24 pm #537963

zxaber wrote:Played AI last night, watched a scientist get himself killed in an accidental toxins fire. CMO tried to bring him back, repairing his burns and brute damage, and replacing all his organs with cybernetics, but couldn't get him alive again. Eventually, after like 30 minutes of trying, the CMO gave up and went SSD. It was really all quite sad.

It seems that non-cloning fixes for heavy damage isn't quite well known yet. I've seen dead bodies that are most likely quite fixable go ignored by doctors or moved to the morgue because they either don't know how to fix them, or don't want to go through the effort.


As said, the documentation really is lacking. I'll try and update the page for MDs today reflecting the changes to cloning, even if I may be overstepping myself a bit given it's a test merge. As PM I'm giving doctors a lot of shit if they just "give up" on corpses, but Manuel is Manuel and I'm aware the bar of patience is lessened player-wise in other servers.
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

User avatar
Domitius
In-Game Head Admin
 
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:30 am
Byond Username: Domitius

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Domitius » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:29 pm #537974

After seeing gameplay without cloning it has really changed the dynamic in medbay and people are always busy getting work done.

I love the change to the Delta map where there is a large room with just beds where doctors can quietly work without being interrupted and would love an area like that on Metastation. On Meta after the first couple bodies are brought in there is just no more room to work.

User avatar
Cobby
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Cobby » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:13 pm #537981

Qbopper wrote:I haven't been keeping up with the cloning stuff - did defibs get a buff to help compensate? I remember a while back they got nerfed into the ground, but my medbay knowledge is lacking these days


kinda, there's no arbitrary ToD requirement for defib revival, it's purely based on heart damage.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Mickyan » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:45 pm #537983

Some of the defib messages are unclear/misleading, they need to be more direct because nobody likes having to code dive to figure out what each fluff message means exactly. I'd go as far as adding a short sentence suggesting a treatment such as "heart transplant required", "brain surgery required" etc.

One egregious example is brain_death which gives the message "Resuscitation failed - Patient's brain damaged beyond point of no return. Further attempts futile." - This state cannot be cured by brain surgery, only by splashing the brain itself with mannitol.
Meanwhile, brain damage gives this message "Resuscitation failed - Patient's brain tissue is damaged making recovery of patient impossible via defibrillator. Further attempts futile."


Special mention to the line "Further attempts futile." which is shared with suiciding patients. It needs to be exceedingly obvious whether or not a patient is a lost cause
ImageI play on Manuel as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
Qbopper
 
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Qbopper » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:02 am #537986

Cobby wrote:
Qbopper wrote:I haven't been keeping up with the cloning stuff - did defibs get a buff to help compensate? I remember a while back they got nerfed into the ground, but my medbay knowledge is lacking these days


kinda, there's no arbitrary ToD requirement for defib revival, it's purely based on heart damage.


based, ty
Limey wrote:its too late.

User avatar
PKPenguin321
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Byond Username: PKPenguin321
Github Username: PKPenguin321

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:00 am #537990

Mickyan wrote:Some of the defib messages are unclear/misleading, they need to be more direct because nobody likes having to code dive to figure out what each fluff message means exactly. I'd go as far as adding a short sentence suggesting a treatment such as "heart transplant required", "brain surgery required" etc.

One egregious example is brain_death which gives the message "Resuscitation failed - Patient's brain damaged beyond point of no return. Further attempts futile." - This state cannot be cured by brain surgery, only by splashing the brain itself with mannitol.
Meanwhile, brain damage gives this message "Resuscitation failed - Patient's brain tissue is damaged making recovery of patient impossible via defibrillator. Further attempts futile."


Special mention to the line "Further attempts futile." which is shared with suiciding patients. It needs to be exceedingly obvious whether or not a patient is a lost cause

This would not be hard at all to change, just literally editing a few strings. Good idea and you should do it
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Mickyan » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:50 am #538004

I would but I am not up to speed with a lot of the recent medbay changes, I've been playing paramedic just so I can't be blamed for not knowing some things since it's technically not my job

As a matter of fact I just got back from a round where three of us had to take turns to try and figure out the correct way to apply mannitol to a dead brain because it's inconsistent, confusing and should just be removed in favor of brain surgery
ImageI play on Manuel as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
Super Aggro Crag
In Game PermaBanned
 
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:47 pm
Byond Username: Super Aggro Crag

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:40 am #538011

I was in that round with Mickyan, we didnt save a single person because everyone who died just ghosted or went to play on another server, despite me dehusking and replacing their every organ. He'll back me up on that.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Ayy Lemoh
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:58 pm
Byond Username: Jerry Derpington

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:46 am #538013

Mickyan wrote:I would but I am not up to speed with a lot of the recent medbay changes, I've been playing paramedic just so I can't be blamed for not knowing some things since it's technically not my job

As a matter of fact I just got back from a round where three of us had to take turns to try and figure out the correct way to apply mannitol to a dead brain because it's inconsistent, confusing and should just be removed in favor of brain surgery

Pouring mannitol on brain is harder than doing literal brain surgery?

Is this why people like baymed?

User avatar
Super Aggro Crag
In Game PermaBanned
 
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:47 pm
Byond Username: Super Aggro Crag

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:48 am #538014

It wouldn't let me pour it on the brain.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:19 am #538017

Ill fix it, dont worry.

As for mannitol on brain, its only supposed to be done pre MMI. There is a brain surgery for brains that are still in a body. Actually brains are a bit of a mess, braindeath and brain organ damage should be the same thing, so Ill fix that too.

Kryson
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Kryson

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Kryson » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:12 am #538022

saprasam wrote:nothing can change my mind that this is fucking stupid, i'd rather not spend 15 minutes being revived/reviving somebody because their neck split from their head, also noticed that if somebody went the extra mile and got rid of medical protolathe and defibs through ??? means that basically means permadeath unless botany isnt retarded
i do not like this change


If someone has sabotaged the protolathe, the spare board and all defibs, you can still do revival surgery with a stun baton / prod.

Cobby wrote:
Qbopper wrote:I haven't been keeping up with the cloning stuff - did defibs get a buff to help compensate? I remember a while back they got nerfed into the ground, but my medbay knowledge is lacking these days


kinda, there's no arbitrary ToD requirement for defib revival, it's purely based on heart damage.


Are we sure about this? I thought this was the case, but when i tried to defib a formaldehyde'd corpse it didn't work and i had to do revival. Someone told me there was a 15~ minute timer in addition to the heart damage check. If this is the case, i think this is fine as it puts a dampener on the most degenerate head swapping strategies(carrying a headless formaldehyde'd body with ligament hook in a bluespace body bag).

skoglol wrote:Ive been playing with the idea of a machine that prints a torso you can base a new body off of. Some assembly required.

But in most cases you already have that. Its the guy someone dragged in thats missing parts. The machine is pointless.


The machine is doubly pointless due to the low value of monkey cubes. In a world where monkey cubes were hard to get this machine would make more sense.

Ideally i would want to make monkey cubes a valuable resource, in the current meta i just buy monkey cubes from botany.

The biomass cost could be adjusted, but this doesn't solve the problem since xenobio shits out hundreds of cubes.

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:26 am #538025

Kryson wrote:
Cobby wrote:
Qbopper wrote:I haven't been keeping up with the cloning stuff - did defibs get a buff to help compensate? I remember a while back they got nerfed into the ground, but my medbay knowledge is lacking these days


kinda, there's no arbitrary ToD requirement for defib revival, it's purely based on heart damage.


Are we sure about this? I thought this was the case, but when i tried to defib a formaldehyde'd corpse it didn't work and i had to do revival. Someone told me there was a 15~ minute timer in addition to the heart damage check. If this is the case, i think this is fine as it puts a dampener on the most degenerate head swapping strategies(carrying a headless formaldehyde'd body with ligament hook in a bluespace body bag).

ToD check was removed in https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/48715. If you are having issues with it currently, make an issue report.



The PR has been updated with a few fixes and changes:
- Cloning disks and scanners rebranded
- Defibs now give you better feedback on faliure and forces ghosts back into the body if they are not DNR'd.
- Brains can again be accidentally attacked, some wrong indentation detected. Also gives feedback.
- Brain death is gone, now just use organ damage since it already did the same thing. This means pouring mannitol and brain surgery should always work.
- All the vital organ repair surgeries now has a repeatable main step, saving a few steps for those completely gone organs.
- Dying now gives you a message informing you about DNR.

Still on my list of things I think we need is better missing organ feedback from health scanners, as well as some medbay remapping to allow for better patient handling. I want treatment rooms back, both to avoid the two stasis beds in every medbay be quite as easy a bomb target and because with however many doctor slots we really should have workstations for all of them. Some more private facilities could also allow for more shenanigans like brainwashing.

Kryson
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Kryson

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Kryson » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:32 am #538033

skoglol wrote:- All the vital organ repair surgeries now has a repeatable main step, saving a few steps for those completely gone organs.


Wasn't the point of lobectomy and coronary bypass that they are not repeatable? They directly set organ damage to 60 and prevent you from repeating the operation.

hepatectomy is powercreeped compared to the two former, setting damage to 10 and allows the surgery to be repeated. It should probably be brought in line since it pretty much invalidates liver transplants.

User avatar
Angust
 
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:35 pm
Byond Username: Angust

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Angust » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:38 am #538040

Sheodir wrote:

I'll try and update the page for MDs today reflecting the changes to cloning, even if I may be overstepping myself a bit given it's a test merge.


Please keep medical advice on the Guide to Medicine wiki page only, instead of the medical doctor job page. Else the doctor page gets duplicate info to (not) maintain.

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:19 am #538050

Angust wrote:
Sheodir wrote:

I'll try and update the page for MDs today reflecting the changes to cloning, even if I may be overstepping myself a bit given it's a test merge.


Please keep medical advice on the Guide to Medicine wiki page only, instead of the medical doctor job page. Else the doctor page gets duplicate info to (not) maintain.


That makes more sense, thanks.

skoglol wrote:Still on my list of things I think we need is better missing organ feedback from health scanners, as well as some medbay remapping to allow for better patient handling. I want treatment rooms back, both to avoid the two stasis beds in every medbay be quite as easy a bomb target and because with however many doctor slots we really should have workstations for all of them. Some more private facilities could also allow for more shenanigans like brainwashing.


Most maps have space for this now I suppose. I'll be glad to be rid of Meta Medbay's ridiculous Morgue.
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

User avatar
zxaber
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:00 am
Byond Username: Zxaber

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby zxaber » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:48 am #538057

I don't mean to be a doomer, but something that has been bugging me is the worry that the massive revival time is going to lead to more players either taking a ghost role or else just quiting out once they die. In turn, this might lead to a "meta" of sorts where doctors would end up less likely to spend a lot of time fixing heavily-damaged bodies if it tends to end up with catatonics. This was an issue of sorts already with cloning, but that wasn't a big deal when you could just push the catatonic person out of the way and queue up another dead person.

Is it possible we could get some sort of "brain scanner"? A device that, when used on any body with the brain (and perhaps also on brains directly), it would pop up an alert to the ghost requesting a response? Like a "tell me if you're still here before I spend 15 minutes reviving you" device?
Douglas Bickerson / Adaptive Manipulator / Digital Clockwork
Image
OrdoM/(Viktor Bergmannsen) (ghost) "Also Douglas, you're becoming the Lexia Black of Robotics"

User avatar
Grazyn
 
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
Byond Username: Grazyn

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Grazyn » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:01 pm #538061

zxaber wrote:I don't mean to be a doomer, but something that has been bugging me is the worry that the massive revival time is going to lead to more players either taking a ghost role or else just quiting out once they die. In turn, this might lead to a "meta" of sorts where doctors would end up less likely to spend a lot of time fixing heavily-damaged bodies if it tends to end up with catatonics. This was an issue of sorts already with cloning, but that wasn't a big deal when you could just push the catatonic person out of the way and queue up another dead person.

Is it possible we could get some sort of "brain scanner"? A device that, when used on any body with the brain (and perhaps also on brains directly), it would pop up an alert to the ghost requesting a response? Like a "tell me if you're still here before I spend 15 minutes reviving you" device?

It's not like MD players have a lot of things to do. They're either fixing the living, which takes precedence over the dead anyway, or reviving the dead. The alternative is doing nothing. Actually, since reviving is now an active process instead of press-and-wait, it's more likely that bored MDs will be doing that compared to old cloning.

User avatar
Arathian
 
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:02 pm
Byond Username: Arathian

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Arathian » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:57 pm #538064

Grazyn wrote:It's not like MD players have a lot of things to do. They're either fixing the living, which takes precedence over the dead anyway, or reviving the dead. The alternative is doing nothing. Actually, since reviving is now an active process instead of press-and-wait, it's more likely that bored MDs will be doing that compared to old cloning.


The alternative is not having anyone sign up as a doctor.
Iron, blood and spider armies

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:06 pm #538066

zxaber wrote:[...]

Is it possible we could get some sort of "brain scanner"? A device that, when used on any body with the brain (and perhaps also on brains directly), it would pop up an alert to the ghost requesting a response? Like a "tell me if you're still here before I spend 15 minutes reviving you" device?


The brain scanner is a good idea. Just a way to visually tell your ghost 'hey I'm gonna revive you now'. Showing a yes/no prompt to the ghost (like 'do you want to be revived') would be pretty neat a way to get them to decide if they want to go through the process or not.

Arathian wrote:The alternative is not having anyone sign up as a doctor.


Except Medbay mains seem mostly supportive of this change and I've seen Medbay more staffed to the brim than usual recently. The main issue imo is that a lot of said good-with-Cobbychem Medbay mains are currently on Manuel, providing a bit of a lopsided perspective to the whole thing.
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

User avatar
Grazyn
 
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
Byond Username: Grazyn

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Grazyn » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:27 pm #538071

Arathian wrote:
Grazyn wrote:It's not like MD players have a lot of things to do. They're either fixing the living, which takes precedence over the dead anyway, or reviving the dead. The alternative is doing nothing. Actually, since reviving is now an active process instead of press-and-wait, it's more likely that bored MDs will be doing that compared to old cloning.


The alternative is not having anyone sign up as a doctor.

If they are not signing up because of this it means they also find healing to be boring, which is a whole other issue. Usually if there are corpses there are also injured people to tend to.

User avatar
peoplearestrange
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:02 pm
Location: UK
Byond Username: Peoplearestrange

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby peoplearestrange » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:49 pm #538089

What is the current "old" cloning scanner now used for?

Also honestly theres a lot of stuff this PR brings up which is really true. Death is too cheap, and having the more finality of death brings about a lot of other interesting consequences. Im keen to see how it will change the general meta of play.
Whatever
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:singulo.io is the center point of rational and calm debate, where much of tg's issues are worked out in a fun and family friendly environment

miggles wrote:it must have been quite the accomplishment, killing a dead butterfly

WeeYakk wrote:If you take a step back from everything watching the community argue janitor related changes is one of the most surreal and hilarious things about this game. Four pages of discussing the merits of there being too much or too little dirt in a video game.

Operative wrote:Vote PAS for headmin! Get cucked and feel good getting cucked.

TheNightingale wrote:I want to get off Mr. Scones's Wild Ride...

NikNakFlak wrote:Excuse you, I was doing intentional bug testing for the well being of the server. I do not make mistakes.

Fragnostic wrote:stop cucking the first shitshow ever that revolved around me.
This is my moment, what are you doing?!

Anonmare wrote:Oranges gestures at the thread, it shudders and begins to move!

Saegrimr wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:all you have to do is ban shitters until the playbase improves/ceases to exist, whichever comes first.

IM TRYING

Screemonster wrote:hellmoo is the mud for grown adults who main reaper in overwatch

Kor wrote:
confused rock wrote:...its like if we made fire extinguishers spawn in emergency boxes and have them heal you when you put out fires rather than them being in wall storages...


Are you having a stroke

bandit wrote:you are now manually GLORFing

MrStonedOne wrote:The best part about the election is when I announce my pick because I'm just as surprised as everybody else.

PM:[USER]->IrishWristWatch0: Yeah, im make it on but how im make the station to to sun and not go to sun

OOC: Francinum: Five Rounds at PAS's
"You are destinied to defeat Dr. Uguu and his 5 Robot Masters
(All-Access-Man, ShootyBlackCoat Man, ChloralHydrate Man, Singulo Man and TeleportArmor Man)"

I'm a box

User avatar
Arathian
 
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:02 pm
Byond Username: Arathian

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Arathian » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:49 pm #538090

The conclusion of "doctors are frustrated doing a sisyphean task" is not "they will do it, they have nothing better to do", it's they will stop being doctors or quit all together.

This is simple logic.

Except Medbay mains seem mostly supportive of this change and I've seen Medbay more staffed to the brim than usual recently.


Source because I have seen the opposite.
Iron, blood and spider armies

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:17 pm #538093

Kryson wrote:
skoglol wrote:- All the vital organ repair surgeries now has a repeatable main step, saving a few steps for those completely gone organs.


Wasn't the point of lobectomy and coronary bypass that they are not repeatable? They directly set organ damage to 60 and prevent you from repeating the operation.

hepatectomy is powercreeped compared to the two former, setting damage to 10 and allows the surgery to be repeated. It should probably be brought in line since it pretty much invalidates liver transplants.


You're right, I misread code. Heart, lungs, liver ones set a value which is fine so reverted repeatable on those. Brain surgery now has a repeatable step and give you some feedback once it finishes to indicate you might need to do it again.

User avatar
Super Aggro Crag
In Game PermaBanned
 
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:47 pm
Byond Username: Super Aggro Crag

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:43 pm #538096

Arathian wrote:The conclusion of "doctors are frustrated doing a sisyphean task" is not "they will do it, they have nothing better to do", it's they will stop being doctors or quit all together.

This is simple logic.

Except Medbay mains seem mostly supportive of this change and I've seen Medbay more staffed to the brim than usual recently.


Source because I have seen the opposite.

I agree with this guy
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Sheodir
 
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm
Byond Username: Sheodir

Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:08 pm #538098

Super Aggro Crag wrote:
Arathian wrote:
Source because I have seen the opposite.

I agree with this guy

Not to turn this into "he said she said" but my source is basically this thread and the Github PR. People who said "as a CMO player" or "as a Medbay player" tended to be supportive, I haven't yet seen a Medbay main that doesn't seem to be (amidst the circle of people who play and talk w me) please to some degree, and most players aggressively attacking the decision either by their own admission or by their lacking Medbay knowledge seem not to play Medbay at all.

Anecdotal as shit and burden of proof etc so feel free to ignore it if it bothers you. But I sure haven't seen less players on Medbay recently, and when I logged into Terry it was as full as Manuel's has consistently been.
I play Holden Westmacott. Sec/PM main most of the time.

PreviousNext

Return to Coding Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users