Sleepers.

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paprika
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Sleepers.

Postby paprika » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:58 pm #59073

I was going to make a nazi PR and remove sleepers. As I stared into the abyss that would eventually become my PR, full of tears, rage, and singulo threads, I reconsidered.

Also, we haven't discussed them in a while.

Sleepers. Essentially a future tech replacement for medical cots that patients lay in, they basically replace the need for being in medical more than a few seconds. At their most basic form, they can heal burn and brute -- the most prevalent of damages -- as well as dispense inaprovaline to patients in crit, infinitely. No chemical cooldown, no well that needs to be replaced like cryo. They shit on the MD's job, IMO, and should be removed or reworked to be chem dispensers that actually use loaded chemicals (load chemicals, press button to inject into person in sleeper).

Leaving sleepers as it is severely undercuts the MD's job since they don't require any access to use. Anyone can use sleepers on anyone, which is pretty bad IMO. It also turns MDs into glorified button pushers. I gave MDs more tools to work with with the addition of defibrillators, but that wasn't really enough to make them relevant in most medbay services.

So either:
A) Remove sleepers.
+ Medical doctors/chemists will do almost all the healing in medbay.
- Increase the amount of breakins or theft from medical storage tenfold if there are no MDs
B) Make sleepers start empty and need to be loaded with chems.
+ Will make medical doctors infinitely more relevant while also making chemistry more than a pill factory that sometimes upgrades cryogenics.
- Increase the amount of breakins or theft from medical storage tenfold if chemistry doesn't do their job and there are no MDs
C) Make sleepers work like chem dispensers in chemistry, with a 'power' for chem synthesizing that needs time to recharge after you dispense a lot
+ Pretty much the closest to what we have now
- Won't really make MDs more relevant
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:29 pm #59101

Sleepers are massively useful for emergency treatment when cryo is either not available or not yet required. Fuck medkits, they run out too fast. Fuck chemistry, too, all the power goes up in drugs, anyway - or in medicine that is left at the chemistry desk and makes an extended stop at medical just as unlikely.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Durkel » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:34 pm #59102

9/10 times A medical doctor can't even get me into the magical healing machine and I die on the floor. removing them or nerfing just means more time I spend stuck in a cryo tube for even minor injuries.

Spoiler:
Doctors will always be joke unless the entire medical code is rewrote, removing or nerfing sleepers won't do anything.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Whoisthere » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:38 pm #59103

Give sleepers an ID lock so they can only be closed/opened by someone with a medbay-related ID.

Alternatively, give certain chemicals in sleepers ID lock.
So: by default, sleepers dispense 5 units of tricord with a long cooldown and inaprov with no cooldown. If you have medbay ID, however, tricord cooldown goes away, and you can dispense bicard, derm, dex, etc.

Also it'd be pretty cool if it was possible to operate sleepers from the inside.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Perakp » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:41 pm #59106

And then some doctors are too lazy to push buttons, they just place you in cryo for the smallest things.

C would work best out of those options.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby iyaerP » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:43 pm #59107

Medbay staff is incompetant and retarded enough as it is. Getting rid of sleepers would only exacerbate the problem and make medbay into a glorified cloning queue because cryo would always be full. I can't count the number of times I have been in medbay desperately begging someone, ANYONE to come over and push the goddamn sleeper buttons so I wouldn't have to break in to steal a bruise pack or sleep for 2 minutes in cryo to fix 10 brute damage at each body location from exposure to vacuum, or something stupid like that. Because right now, your average MD will do one of three things: stick a hurt person in cryo, ignore them, or apply unecessary bruise packs/ointment.

Although I do like the idea of sleepers having a recharge on them like chemmasters. I don't think they should require chemicals to be manually loaded(it is enough of a headache getting chem to do that for cryo, let alone anything else), especially since with manually loaded chems it would obviate the point of RnD upgrading them, and getting rid of rewards for interdepartmental coordination and cooperation is a bad idea, especially as sleepers are one of the only things that RnD can upgrade outside their own departments that actually matter.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:43 pm #59108

B works as long as sleepers start pre-loaded with some chems. The ideal is that sleepers are avalable for emergency rapid treatment if you absolutely have to save someone and get them walking now, but if you depend too much on automatic treatment you get stuck with cryo as they run out unless chemistry loads them up again. Bonus points if you allow custom chemical treatments for both upgrading beyond basic healing medicine and for malpractice.

If sleepers become chemistry dependant though we should really get around to making it so baseline cryo doesn't really require anything from chemistry as those are pretty redundant right now save for cloning. That way sleepers are the super fancy cutting edge thing you use to pump people full of drugs to fix them up quick, while sleepers are those old janky pieces of medical equipment from Russia that only needs duct tape to run, and they have a niche in rounds with a large medical back log but no chemist to keep the sleepers going.

DemonFiren wrote:Sleepers are massively useful for emergency treatment when cryo is either not available or not yet required. Fuck medkits, they run out too fast. Fuck chemistry, too, all the power goes up in drugs, anyway - or in medicine that is left at the chemistry desk and makes an extended stop at medical just as unlikely.


I sort of agree that this is patchwork if done alone. Right now there are a few medical tools and players rapidly fall upon a first order optimal solution based on what we got in the medical job, with most other tools being unused or only used by non-medics or as an absolute last resort. I would be interested in seeing the new medical tools Paprika made.

That said I also think the idea of re-working sleepers to work in an entirely new way, rapidly applying multiple drugs without pre-mixing special pills, keeps a strong utility on the sleeper while making cryo not a complete joke, and making first aid usage more likey in cases beyond a minor injury. It also has a really massive benefit in that gives chemistry a lot more legitimate tasks without overloading them. Unlike the food change for example chemicals are not in constant demand, so you are not always playing catch-up, but at the same time you now have a reason to pre-mix chemicals in large supply. It is an endless demand that doesn't need to actually be quenched endlessly, which is pretty god damned amazing.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Amelius » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:47 pm #59111

You make it sound like those are the only three options.

The reality is, unless there is an option that is legitimately better, there is no reason to add or change it. As you said, those three options have upsides, and downsides. None of them are actual viable solutions that will please the userbase if implemented. A. is ridiculous, since the chem dispensers are overstrained as-is, and still yet, the job is boring as hell and repetitive after you've done it once, so everyone makes drugs and fucks off - you're just making medbay entirely reliant on a competent and active chemistry team, which almost never happens. B. is also ridiculous, since getting a good cryomix started is a pain in the ass enough for perpetually bored chemists and CMOs, and thus happens about half the time. C. is ludicrous, because there's no positive reason for such a change, and will (rightfully) be seen as 'paprika making unwanted changes for no justifiable reason'. Furthermore, there's no reason to add more boring busywork to jobs, rather, and I'd posit that it's better to be taking that nonsense away. It's terrible, lazy, and incentivizes not doing your job.

Furthermore, you claim that MDs are glorified button pushers, but what of janitors? Chefs? Bartenders? Cargo techs would be glorified crate movers too (since the QM, if competent, holds front of shop), etc. Removing sleepers altogether is a drastic change, and will serve to only further murderize the station when all the competent MDs end up dead in maintenance somewhere, and, suddenly no one can heal anyone. It also further incentivizes powergaming by grabbin' dem chems, and if there are no MDs or chemists, suddenly the station is fucked, as you said.

PostThis post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:15 pm #59114

Yeah honestly while shitty chemists are going to be shit, legit chemists often have nothing to do.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Snakebutt » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:20 pm #59117

Please just remove them. I main medical jobs, and I can't count the number of times I've been loaded to the gills with medpacks, chems and spares, only to open the door to someone being dragged in and the dragger just pulls them right into the sleeper, making me a glorified medbay doorknob. Or they just get thrown in cryo and they sit there and reclose cryo if I pull them out to actually treat them instead of taking the lazy way out.

Medical exists for a reason. Wounds are serious, no matter how minor. That said, it shouldn't be stupid easy to fix every little bruise without even saying hello to a doctor. My job being done by 2 machines is just bullshit. IMHO, making cryo ONLY heal clones and 'locking' someone's health so they don't take further damage would be a good start to making doctors more relevant. As for sleepers, filling them with chems is probably the best route, gives chemists something to do after mixing cryo, making a few bottles of healing drugs and leaving some tricord on the desk. "Hey chem, sleeper's out of tricord, and it could use some synap too" You don't even know how happy it would make me to hear something like that.

I'd be willing to bet if I moved cryo and sleepers into the lobby no one would even notice there was a single doctor on the station. And that's just sad. But that just shows a deeper problem in the medical system, just changing sleepers isn't going to improve the job as a whole, just keep doctors busier.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:41 pm #59131

Make them the long-term patching up tool they should. They're sleepers, go to fucking sleep in them.
No buttons, just hopping inside will keep you loaded up with inaprov, and release a trickle of tricord or just increment player health. Like cryo, but slower and not for severe damage.

Menu to show condition, locational damage, maybe a recent history of damage sources (Pressure damage to: Head, Heavy impact to: Left Arm, Gunshot to: Torso)

+Players get to heal themselves without waiting for a doctor to come by and push the button.
-They gonna be waiting longer than if someone bruise packs/loads them up with chems.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:42 pm #59133

Cryo is already too damn slow. You are basically describing old sleepers, which were never used because what the hell is the point?

Once you broke into medical you could easily just break into medical storage or chemistry if there really are no doctors willing to apply any medicine manually if in this hypothetical scenario that is why you have access to a sleeper.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:45 pm #59138

Cryo's pretty fast assuming we're not running of the default beakers of cryox and there is someone there to shake your ass up when you're done.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:47 pm #59139

Sure, pretty fast but not really faster than an expert doc just patching you up by hand, or tier 1 medical chems.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:49 pm #59142

That's kind of the point, yes.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:53 pm #59144

Saegrimr wrote:That's kind of the point, yes.

That means they don't offer any real utility besides allowing you to be really lazy, which is why they don't see much use, and are not really seen as valuable by good docs. In all honesty I wouldn't mind a cryo buff being thrown in, but making sleepers worthless isnt really the answer.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Snakebutt » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:55 pm #59148

dezzmont wrote:Sure, pretty fast but not really faster than an expert doc just patching you up by hand, or tier 1 medical chems.

Except no one bothers with the trained medical professional and just drags the poor sod to a sleeper, then cryo if they're too beaten for the sleeper. The idea is to put priority of healing on the doctors as the best source of health, not the automated machines. Sleeper being a diagnostic tool and a quick treatment of weak chems is a good way to go.

All these suggestions are pretty much pushing us to baymed, which isn't really a bad thing, baymed is robust as fuck.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:12 pm #59154

Then get to them first and treat them how you want.

Honestly complaining other medical staff are using sleepers or letting people self serve is so bloody petty.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby oranges » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:14 pm #59155

Durkel wrote:Doctors will always be joke unless the entire medical code is rewrote, removing or nerfing sleepers won't do anything.


Durkel's not wrong, our medical system is pretty basic and thats why it's so easy to treat people.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:18 pm #59157

Even if it was more complex there would still be arrogant doctors claiming they are the one true way the single blue lighthouse in the dark.

What next? Crutches vs wheelchairs?

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:29 pm #59163

The problem with the medical system isn't that it is too simple, damage being simple is nice because it streamlines the process of getting better which is a problem in baycode. I have played baymed, the medical process needs to be streamlined and relevant at the same time, and baymed sure as hell overfocuses the relevancy of treatment rather than making it streamlined.

The problem is the differences between treatment options are not really pronounced in /tg/ code, meaning the best treatment option is always the fastest one. At the moment, it is generally a sleeper unless you are unusually far away from medbay or have a particularly good chemist who makes cure all mixes out of the advanced medicines.

That won't be solved by numbers tweaks, because there is no real nuance to the options. Sleepers let you click rapidly to heal dudes. Cryo requires no clicking to heal somewhat slowly. Field healing requires you to click different things, and worst of all field healing can be just as easily done by anyone with a medkit.

Making it so that the sleeper is a super fast high tech option that obviously blows other options out of the water IF it is maintained adds some nuance, because instead of fighting the obvious efficiency of rapidly healing someone by trying to make it less rapid it embraces the idea that this is something that has value people want to work for.

PostThis post was deleted by Spacemanspark on Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:34 pm.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Snakebutt » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:35 pm #59169

Incomptinence wrote:Even if it was more complex there would still be arrogant doctors claiming they are the one true way the single blue lighthouse in the dark.

What next? Crutches vs wheelchairs?

Everyone knows wheelchairs are the most robust thing since oldjanicart. And doctors are SUPPOSED to be the best form of healing. Machines are just a poor replacement, or at least should be.

Biggest question to ask yourself here: If sleepers were left in the lobby by default, how much would you interact with medical? And what if cryo was too?


Overdosing isn't an issue because 10u of the correct chemicals will bring anyone out of crit. I can bring someone back from 199 with 4 chems and 20u. So you have to be full retard to cause an overdose.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Usednapkin420 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:47 pm #59173

Why are these changes based on definites? You do realize that human error plays into account like almost every time anything comes into order and that's why most of this stuff works.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Incomptinence » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:04 am #59188

Often it is medics using the machines. So I really don't see the point in pretending you are a wonder worker for slapping bruise packs, or using something chemist gave you in which case the credit lays with the chemist.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:05 am #59189

Incomptinence wrote:Often it is medics using the machines. So I really don't see the point in pretending you are a wonder worker for slapping bruise packs, or using something chemist gave you in which case the credit lays with the chemist.

Indeed. While it doesn't take any skill it does actually make medical the best source of healing, especially because every department can easily get medical supplies inside the department. If doctors need to be above and beyond the first aid kits scattered in departments then they need better tools. Currently their best tools are the sleepers, specialist medkits that are not really any better, and cryo which is kind of not worth it when compared to the other two options.

The main issue is how poorly balanced the medical system is. Medics are kind of pathetic, but it is because their tools are so out of wack, not because of minor number issuess. Nerfing the rate of sleeper healing just changes the best way to heal, and if the best way to heal is first aid kts people wont go to medical.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby paprika » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:06 am #59190

It seems like the best solution here would just be to add one or two more cryo tubes so we can have star wars medical and shove people in the goo when we're too lazy. Cryo tubes start with a finite set of chems that heal all wounds while also having downsides and are more like sleepers than sleepers ever will be. Sleepers are basically cryo pods without the cryo, and we should replace them with a more robust cryogenics lab for inpatients so they can be healed either by the tuuuubes or traditional medicine/pills
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Fragnostic » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:11 am #59193

What if R&D upgrades could advance sleepers into machines that analyze the health in the patient and automatically dispense the appropriate chemicals in order to heal. They could be called autosleepers. But they should requiere an ID that is related to medbay as previously mentioned, but only to open them when locked. That way, a competent MD can lock the sleeper before anyone tries to use it, making medbay more formal and proper. But I like that idea that it makes the patient fall asleep and only at the end of the sleep is the patient fully healed.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:22 am #59198

Incomptinence wrote:Often it is medics using the machines. So I really don't see the point in pretending you are a wonder worker for slapping bruise packs, or using something chemist gave you in which case the credit lays with the chemist.

I'm doing it as the chemist, after filling my smartfridge with chemicals for the doctors to do the same. :^)

>autosleepers
And doctors were never needed again. Just bolt open the doors to genetics and space everyone in a labcoat.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby dezzmont » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:12 am #59215

paprika wrote:It seems like the best solution here would just be to add one or two more cryo tubes so we can have star wars medical and shove people in the goo when we're too lazy. Cryo tubes start with a finite set of chems that heal all wounds while also having downsides and are more like sleepers than sleepers ever will be. Sleepers are basically cryo pods without the cryo, and we should replace them with a more robust cryogenics lab for inpatients so they can be healed either by the tuuuubes or traditional medicine/pills


The problem is Cryo is also really not worth using at all, meaning medical's primary tool becomes a tool everyone else has, and we go back to when medics really didn't have a purpose like before sleepers were buffed.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Riley » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:44 am #59221

I'd rather option C, but could agree with B if the sleepers come with a fairly large amount of built-in chems, especially given the tendency for doctors to spam them.
That, and maybe a limit on how much you can drug a single person, so fuckheads don't just empty it for giggles.

Sleepers definitely need a nerf. They're too easy to use, and are basically cure-alls when upgraded.
Unfortunately, the non-cryo alternatives are all finicky and have a tendency to be stolen or quickly depleted.

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Re: Sleepers.

Postby paprika » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:17 am #59230

dezzmont wrote:
paprika wrote:It seems like the best solution here would just be to add one or two more cryo tubes so we can have star wars medical and shove people in the goo when we're too lazy. Cryo tubes start with a finite set of chems that heal all wounds while also having downsides and are more like sleepers than sleepers ever will be. Sleepers are basically cryo pods without the cryo, and we should replace them with a more robust cryogenics lab for inpatients so they can be healed either by the tuuuubes or traditional medicine/pills


The problem is Cryo is also really not worth using at all, meaning medical's primary tool becomes a tool everyone else has, and we go back to when medics really didn't have a purpose like before sleepers were buffed.

What? Sleepers literally remove the purpose of medical doctors. Anyone can press a button. If we removed sleepers, medics would have access to an immense medical storage as well as surgery which makes them incredibly relevant.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Kel » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:12 am #59246

If there was any way to replace bruise packs and ointment besides cargo we wouldn't need sleepers.
Perhaps if they were replaced with a vendor with dispenses packs and ointment, not infinitely, but it recharges after time.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby paprika » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:38 am #59262

or a medical lathe that eats bicaridine/kelotane and shits out bandaids/ointment
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:52 am #59265

When people want to be healed they do so in the following manner if avaliable.

Tricord Pills > Medical Storage > Sleeper > Cyro

Sleepers are hard to use because you have to beg someone to push the buttons to make it function, meaning most people just break into Medical Storage rather than deal with the oft incompetent medical staff.

The "problem" of sleepers is two fold, firstly its due to the incompetent of our medical staff and secondly its due to our very simplistic medical system. Simply removing or reworking sleepers is not going to fix the problem at its core. A overhaul to use something like Goon Medical would be, imo, the best solution to this as that means sleepers are suddenly not the be all and end all of healing.

Removing or reworking sleepers by themselves will just piss a lot of people off.

EDIT: Not to mention that if we do remove/rework sleeperrs, we will see a lot more people in cyro tubes, no medical supplies, and a lot of dead people waiting to get cloned.
Last edited by Steelpoint on Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby paprika » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:05 am #59271

Steelpoint wrote:EDIT: Not to mention that if we do remove/rework sleeperrs, we will see a lot more people in cyro tubes, no medical supplies, and a lot of dead people waiting to get cloned.

so add more cryo tubes then to replace the sleepers?
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Jeb » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:26 am #59281

Leave the damn sleepers as they are, maybe put a medical idlock on them, or make it only inject 1u of the chem at per tick your body uses it, so you literally only get the benefit if you lay in the sleeper rather than it just injecting chems and you fucking off.
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Razharas » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:37 am #59283

Lets make sleepers actually sleepers instead of glorified chem injectors
You are in - you are getting the effect of the choosen chem constantly
You are out - you dont have any chems left in you
So it wont be get in - three clicks - get out - next, but instead get in - wait until healed - get out - next
More than one chem at once selected with upgrades
Also maybe give medbay only one so they can build more if(when) it becomes not enough
But then again it wont solve the problem of our medical system being shit and thus medbay being shit, only better system will solve it

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Rhisereld
 
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Rhisereld » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:34 am #59301

I don't have a problem with the way sleepers work.

If anything, I think making them accessible only by Medbay staff would fix a lot of the problems described. Like making MDs more relevant and eliminating the "anyone can heal" situation.

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Balut
 
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Balut » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:28 am #59311

I had a "Minor ailments and checkups" thread open to get put in the Ideas forum but I couldn't figure out what the fuck to say that wouldn't make it sound like an assload of work for relatively little gain.

But basically, why not return injuries to the game? Ones that AREN'T literally just straight lifted from Bay, like. After getting injured, the game might inflict various debuffs on your character. Tricord and meds will fix your hp, but the debuffs stay until the docs do surgery or other bullshit that ISN'T some lameass feed-pills get-outta-here shit that chemistry and elsewise could handle.

Getting beat could periodically stop you from moving because of a pain. Getting shot leaves a bullet that needs to get dug out. Getting stunned fucks your nervous system or fucks with your heart rhythm or something, causing slowdowns, maybe increased usage of internals or whatever bullshit - same with freezing or being KO'd for too long; you become all stiff and slow down.

Multipliers to damage taken, reduced max health, occasionally falling down if your leg(s) are injured, all that shit. Make Med the guys with the tools to fix that shit properly. Perhaps different symptoms clear up eventually and/or have ghetto treatments that harm you if you attempt them - digging out a bullet with a screwdriver instead of surgery bullshit and the like.

Periodically, the less shitty brands of pains should happen naturally, to make this actually be a factor when people AREN'T taking damage.


And then there's checkups. I guess pains and such should have a longass time to 'incubate' like a virus, with potential pains starting at any point on that incubation timer so you don't all of a sudden get 15 guys going "fuck I have a bad hip" 30 minutes into the round, but rather 15 guys over that course of 30 minutes or whatever. By going through a few procedures - X-ray, stethoscope, whatever - a doc should be able to catch that shit and treat it before it's even a problem.



Alternate idea: Tricord and the other healing drugs should make you hungry as FUCK. Tricord should totally do so significantly more so than the other drugs, since it's conveniently effective against errything, no diagnosis required. This is a bit tangential to sleepers, since the various kit-carriable drugs and the shit in the sleepers are the same... perhaps make the sleepers themselves just take Nutriment from the person inside? Say the machine uses the nutriment to synthesize the drug or what the fuck ever.

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Snakebutt
 
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am

Re: Sleepers.

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:42 am #59315

Balut wrote:I had a "Minor ailments and checkups" thread open to get put in the Ideas forum but I couldn't figure out what the fuck to say that wouldn't make it sound like an assload of work for relatively little gain.

But basically, why not return injuries to the game? Ones that AREN'T literally just straight lifted from Bay, like. After getting injured, the game might inflict various debuffs on your character. Tricord and meds will fix your hp, but the debuffs stay until the docs do surgery or other bullshit that ISN'T some lameass feed-pills get-outta-here shit that chemistry and elsewise could handle.

Getting beat could periodically stop you from moving because of a pain. Getting shot leaves a bullet that needs to get dug out. Getting stunned fucks your nervous system or fucks with your heart rhythm or something, causing slowdowns, maybe increased usage of internals or whatever bullshit - same with freezing or being KO'd for too long; you become all stiff and slow down.

Multipliers to damage taken, reduced max health, occasionally falling down if your leg(s) are injured, all that shit. Make Med the guys with the tools to fix that shit properly. Perhaps different symptoms clear up eventually and/or have ghetto treatments that harm you if you attempt them - digging out a bullet with a screwdriver instead of surgery bullshit and the like.

Periodically, the less shitty brands of pains should happen naturally, to make this actually be a factor when people AREN'T taking damage.


And then there's checkups. I guess pains and such should have a longass time to 'incubate' like a virus, with potential pains starting at any point on that incubation timer so you don't all of a sudden get 15 guys going "fuck I have a bad hip" 30 minutes into the round, but rather 15 guys over that course of 30 minutes or whatever. By going through a few procedures - X-ray, stethoscope, whatever - a doc should be able to catch that shit and treat it before it's even a problem.



Another idea: Tricord and the other healing drugs should make you hungry as FUCK. Tricord should totally do so significantly more so than the other drugs, since it's conveniently effective against errything, no diagnosis required.

Get toolboxed? You now have a concussion, enjoy dizzyness, confusion and brain damage (because seriously, I NEVER see brain damage outside of clones. Useless ass biblethumpers.)

Starve yourself for too long? Your body now metabolizes reagents slower (to the point of interuption), so you can't be healed as fast/enjoy hyperzine. Also makes starvation cause you to get easily fucked up on liquor, which is more realistic.

Breaking legs causes slowdown/falling, breaking arms might cause someone to periodically drop things. Makes targeting extremeties relevant in fights.

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paprika
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby paprika » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:24 am #59344

cryo basically already makes you hungry at the cost of rapid healing, cryo can be really fast with the right mix

the difference is you have to stay in and hog the tube, which i think is a decent mechanic if we had more of them
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Vekter
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby Vekter » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:24 am #59357

I don't feel like sleepers are the problem. Let's work on fixing medical first.
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cedarbridge
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Re: Sleepers.

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:05 pm #59367

I keep hearing cryo as a solution to sleepers (which are somehow a problem, questionmark?) but this somehow forgets how fucking terrible cryo is. With a functional beaker loadout, it takes ages. With a passable beaker loadout, it takes weeks. With a robust loadout it work in a few minutes and then runs out. No matter the mix, you're going in and whoever put you there has already fucked off, never to return. If we're going to talk about medbay being lazy "anyone can do this" shit, cyro is it.

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