Goon Chem Feedback

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MMMiracles
 
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Goon Chem Feedback

Postby MMMiracles » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:13 am #59216

Cause it had to be made eventually.

Heaters need more visible feedback (show current temp) and an ability to eject early.
Crank is rediciously OP in the fact a 50u pill will crit a person within 10-15 seconds and kill them in an extra 10. They drop hp faster than any conventional healing or cyro pod could do to save them.
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby deathhoof » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:55 am #59223

Although I am excited to try new lorenzinator mixes, I am not liking how gimicky most of the new chems are. Compare them to the chems we already have and you will see that its like adding sprinkles to vanilla. All the chems we already have were one function straightforward chems with no special snowflake circumstances. All these new chems are nothing but special circumstances. I hate it. I eat vanilla icecream damnit and I want a vanilla server too. Tg needs to be a server that has a code that other servers use as a codebase. Gimicky shit will make tg into another goon.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:05 am #59225

the point of goonchem is so that you can't just go "lol he's dying? here have a 50u tricord healeverything pill, have a nice day you're back up and running at max health"

Tkdrg did a rework of heaters, PR is up for that.

Crank, I'll look into.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby danno » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:40 am #59238

Do you honestly think people just give 50u tricord pills to dying people
have you ever even been in medbay
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby iyaerP » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:30 am #59252

I do when I am chemist. Or sometimes I pop a tricord smoke grenade.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby oranges » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:42 am #59254

danno wrote:Do you honestly think people just give 50u tricord pills to dying people
have you ever even been in medbay


When ever competent chemists are around medbay may as well be replaced with a desk with tricord pills sitting on it.
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:39 am #59263

At first I hated this idea because I thought it would replace the current chem system, but then I saw it just added on to it.
Then I saw another PR that's supposedly the first of many to purge our already very functional chemistry system. https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/7074

Goofball, I love you in the most heterosexual way possible, but I hate your idea of purging tgchem. I know it's an opinion (and you all very much have the right to disagree violently), but I think our current chemistry is better than goon in that it's more straightforward. I absolutely hate these changes. If the new goon chem system can't build off of the old, I'd rather just not have it.

And then I could be wrong about the purging of tgchem entirely and Goof's just replacing items already on the map that are chem related. In which case, ignore me please :?
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby bandit » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:54 am #59267

Wasn't Numbers working on a large chemistry rewrite and actually said he had made progress this time?
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:56 am #59269

Numbers has been working on a chemistry rewrite forever.
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:54 am #59290

MMMiracles wrote:Cause it had to be made eventually.

Heaters need more visible feedback (show current temp) and an ability to eject early.
Crank is rediciously OP in the fact a 50u pill will crit a person within 10-15 seconds and kill them in an extra 10. They drop hp faster than any conventional healing or cyro pod could do to save them.

wiki says crank does random damage in OD.

Bigger problem is cyanide is brewable, which is a toxin 3 poison, even more robust than pure plasma. I can crit someone in 6 seconds with it and a few other chems, and I haven't even played with goonchem yet.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:28 am #59298

Yeah could really use a guide or something for this. I tried the goon wiki, but obviously many of the chemicals are not in this update. What do we have apart from the basic healing chems and the poisoner stuff?

The new poisons look pretty great though. 2 TCs and you get a box full of 30u bottles of various poisons.

EDIT: Holy jebus Formaldehyde is insanely lethal.

EDIT2:

Formaldehyde and Venom are very lethal because they seem to produce a massive amount of Histamine . Formaldehyde is kinda random so it isnt consistently lethal. Venom however seems to consistently produce x4 as much Histamine as the amount of Venom in the persons system. 5 units ends up being 20-25 units of histamine, 10 units becomes 45-50 etc.

Polonium kills with 5 units just because it irradiates the victim so much. They die from pure toxin damage.

Neurotoxin doesnt do anything, unless i am using it wrong. 5/10/15 units did nothing to the humans i injected.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby oranges » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:05 am #59304

bandit wrote:Wasn't Numbers working on a large chemistry rewrite and actually said he had made progress this time?

If by progress you mean holding up any changes in chemistry for 2 years and then having 2 new chems that didn't have any effects then yes
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby mikecari » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:21 am #59308

Delicious wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Numbers has been working on a chemistry rewrite forever.

He completed it half a year ago, apparently:
https://archive.moe/v/thread/276607493/#q276627754
https://archive.moe/v/thread/276607493/#276630489

I was in that thread, so hopefully linking to it isn't creepy.


Woah what the fuck, that's MY thread. Creepy.

Yes I like to shill TG a lot for shits and giggles on /v/.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:26 am #59310

Alex Crimson wrote:Yeah could really use a guide or something for this. I tried the goon wiki, but obviously many of the chemicals are not in this update. What do we have apart from the basic healing chems and the poisoner stuff?

I'm not good at coding, but I'm code literate, lemme pull the latest branch and see what I can figure out. No promises, this is fucking gooncode we're talking about

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby allura » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:34 am #59313

tg wiki now has all the new chems

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:41 am #59314

Awesome. One thing id suggest is to add the metabolism rates for the chemicals. Seems like an important feature with goonchem.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby mikecari » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:23 am #59319

allura wrote:tg wiki now has all the new chems

Confirmed for based wiki

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:48 am #59320

Observations:

Toxin/drugs
HOLY FUCK THESE VALUES
Every last one of the goon drugs causes chloral levels of stacking damage, the more that's in your system, the more lethal it gets. To reference, Nicotine causes 2toxin and oxygen loss (times remaining reagent? Not quite sure the effect of *REM. EDIT: Nope, it's the exponential growth damage of chloral. Every last fucking chem in this pack uses it though.)
Lexorin, one of the most robust poisons in a chemist's previous arsenal, just causes 3 oxygen loss, set. The other drugs cause somewhere between 1 and 10 loss, again modified. Im surprised critting even takes 10 seconds. A max roll on a high, 50u dose might well cause apparently instant death.
Histamine takes only a moderate dose to cause 3 types of damage at higher values than any existing toxin we have, and is a byproduct of many chemicals.
Neurotoxin should cause moderate brain damage and toxin damage, and eventually put them to sleep. Basically beefed up Impedrezene.

Apparently we can make carpet by injecting blood into a bottle of space drugs. I need to doublecheck if 'carpet' isnt something else.

Styptic Powder and Silver Sulfadiazine should only be applied externally, via patch(if we got those)
Omnizine is twice as effective as tricord, but half as effective as Doctor's Delight. But it doesn't do a probability check, like both the other curealls do, so it may work faster.
Calomel suffers from the same problem poisons do, rate of loss is too high compared to our chemicals. I could 'accidentally' apply Calomel to a healthy player, reduce their health pretty fast, then apply a potent mix that will kill in seconds due to the reduced health.
The comment on Polonium being absurd? Penetic Acid will clear that shit right out. And will heal you right through it, with a combined toxin heal greater than the (2) existing chems combined.
Salicyclic Acid is laughably useless compared to bicard.
Salbutamol is a more reasonable dex plus, greatly cures oxygen loss and breathloss without just removing it instantly. I like this, to the point of removing dex plus.
Perfluordodecalin has a decent chance of letting you survive space naked and without internals, good replacement for Leporazine.
Ephedrine does NOT reduce run speed. It is in fact a combination of hyperzine and synaptazine with no drawbacks.
Morphine does none of the things it says. It causes hyperzine effect but puts you to sleep after so long, and if you take to much you drop what you're holding. Nothing about jitters.
Saline-Glucose has some dodgy code that actually calls if the target is alive or not, making me wonder what the hell it's doing. It doesn't heal the way everything else does.
Synthflesh doesn't cure brute, it cures organ damage. And if I'm reading this wrong, you slap the steak onto a wound, which is just fucking great. If not, you have to grind synthmeat, which is boring, and less fun than fixing a wound with a cold, artificial steak.
Charcoal also removes some reagents in the body.

Also redo all the 'Results in 4-5 units instead of 3' lines on the wiki, you get out what you put in, no recipe is uneven with these chemicals. You put in 5 ingredients, you get out 5 units.

Acutally going to work on doing all these wiki edits myself, thought I'd put them down for discussion.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:04 am #59323

I would like to point out that you can make a really awesome 50unit pill to kill someone. 25 units of Neurotoxin(the bartender drink), 15 units of Perfluorodecalin and 10 units of Cyanide. That pill will instantly stun via the Neurotoxin and mute from the Perfluorodecalin, whilst the Cyanide slowly knocks them into crit. The stun/mute does not wear off until they are in crit. You can probably optimize it somewhat, but it works and is rather easy to make.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:16 am #59325

Alex Crimson wrote:I would like to point out that you can make a really awesome 50unit pill to kill someone. 25 units of Neurotoxin(the bartender drink), 15 units of Perfluorodecalin and 10 units of Cyanide. That pill will instantly stun via the Neurotoxin and mute from the Perfluorodecalin, whilst the Cyanide slowly knocks them into crit. The stun/mute does not wear off until they are in crit. You can probably optimize it somewhat, but it works and is rather easy to make.

Looking at this code, I could kill someone before they have time to notice their health going down. The legendary '10 second crit' mix can be surpassed easily with these new toxins.
We need to review some of these chems, their effects and values. Having something that is synap AND hyper, with no fucking drawbacks, is just bullshit. And it should be stackable with synap, poooosibly further reducing stun time. I'd like to see the effects of both plus a cultist with unholy water, I'd bet they'd be damn near unstunable.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:21 am #59326

I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby allura » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:40 am #59332

snakebutt, your observations with the "results in x" are wrong.
also, your morphine description was so horrible i had to totally remove it. jesus christ

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby dezzmont » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:44 am #59336

Alex Crimson wrote:I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

A gate in the form of a multi tier formula is not a gate at all. You would need to either introduce resource scarcity for ingredients in high end reactions or make each stage require high skill and focus to produce successfully. Otherwise it is about as hard as printing trichord, not at all. The only mixed in code that are hard to pull off are complex grenade mixes due to how you need to mentally mix them so as not to cause conflicts.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:47 am #59338

why would a 2 ingredient recipe result in 3 units instead of 2? You get out what you put in, that notice is useless.

Also this is my first wiki edit ever, pls be gentle.
Alex Crimson wrote:I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

Everyone ever is going to beg for ephedrine pills. We need to make it illegal under spacelaw or some shit, rename it meth. Most of the others are pretty good.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby allura » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:55 am #59340

OH MY GOD

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:01 am #59341

dezzmont wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

A gate in the form of a multi tier formula is not a gate at all. You would need to either introduce resource scarcity for ingredients in high end reactions or make each stage require high skill and focus to produce successfully. Otherwise it is about as hard as printing trichord, not at all. The only mixed in code that are hard to pull off are complex grenade mixes due to how you need to mentally mix them so as not to cause conflicts.


It works. Look at Glycerol. Nobody ever makes Nitroglycerin grenades because its so annoying to brew up all that Glycerol. If the higher-tier drugs were gated behind multiple recipes that require the heater and results in 1-2 units, people just wouldnt bother making much of it. If it comes to it, then make the recipes require materials from Botany.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:42 am #59349

Alex Crimson wrote:
dezzmont wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

A gate in the form of a multi tier formula is not a gate at all. You would need to either introduce resource scarcity for ingredients in high end reactions or make each stage require high skill and focus to produce successfully. Otherwise it is about as hard as printing trichord, not at all. The only mixed in code that are hard to pull off are complex grenade mixes due to how you need to mentally mix them so as not to cause conflicts.


It works. Look at Glycerol. Nobody ever makes Nitroglycerin grenades because its so annoying to brew up all that Glycerol. If the higher-tier drugs were gated behind multiple recipes that require the heater and results in 1-2 units, people just wouldnt bother making much of it. If it comes to it, then make the recipes require materials from Botany.

The heater looks like it is going to be a default part of chemistry with what we have, all the chems worth making use it. Needing botany, or even mining would make it would be more balanced. As is though, the best answer is to remove Ephedrine from everyone but the ERP/dethsquid and erase the recipe, and start doing math on the toxins to see were they should be at. Because 20bruteloss is probably instant ggnore.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby dezzmont » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:49 am #59363

Alex Crimson wrote:
dezzmont wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

A gate in the form of a multi tier formula is not a gate at all. You would need to either introduce resource scarcity for ingredients in high end reactions or make each stage require high skill and focus to produce successfully. Otherwise it is about as hard as printing trichord, not at all. The only mixed in code that are hard to pull off are complex grenade mixes due to how you need to mentally mix them so as not to cause conflicts.


It works. Look at Glycerol. Nobody ever makes Nitroglycerin grenades because its so annoying to brew up all that Glycerol. If the higher-tier drugs were gated behind multiple recipes that require the heater and results in 1-2 units, people just wouldnt bother making much of it. If it comes to it, then make the recipes require materials from Botany.

No one makes Glycerol because it has an entirely seperate gate, Botany co-operation, and has no really legit uses, meaning asking for corn as a chemist is a huge tater tell.

Once high end ingredients enter the mix multiple recepies become a decent gate if each tier reduces the amount of effective units you have, but that isn't really about the gate being multiple tiers so much as it being a scarcity gate.

Also, heater placement is super freaking annoying. Mapping issue related to this change.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:01 pm #59365

Wiki also needs the recipe for oil, acetone and such. Actually we don't even need acetone, none of the recipes use it. Charcoal is impossible to make, as it is not possible to pick up ashes left by a fire.

Given how cigarettes work, i'm going to bet that you can't actually OD on nicotine without guessing when the cigarette runs out of reagents and then lighting another. Grindable cigs to collect their nicotine, making nicotine patches possible?

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Jalleo » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:53 pm #59373

If something is not able to be made or anything like that please make sure to create a issue report about it on github or go onto IRC and yell to someone on #coderbus until they do.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:41 pm #59382

Jalleo wrote:If something is not able to be made or anything like that please make sure to create a issue report about it on github or go onto IRC and yell to someone on #coderbus until they do.


Well how much are we supposed to be able to make? Is this the entire goonmed system, or just a handful of the recipes? My understanding was that only a few recipes were added.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:42 pm #59391

I'll get the extra shit like Ash and Oil added to the wiki, sorry about that.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Ezel » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:01 pm #59427

>not having werewolf serum
>not putting it in the wiki
The future is horrible!

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Vigilare » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:52 pm #59465

feedback: toxins op
toxin kit especially op
Image Image Image

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:44 pm #59472

Goon direct healing medicine, synthflesh, styptic, silver sulpha, all heal 1:1, meaning 10u of a medicine that fucking uses silver heals 10u burn damage. This is beyond shit. How the hell do goone spessmen not keel over with this shit healing and deadly ass poisons?

And yes, average toxin value of ALL goon toxins is 5. Previous average was 2, and the highest attainable was 3, and one of the 2 that powerful was admin only. We need to go through and decide how to change the meds based on their reagents, difficulty to make, and effect.

Silver sulfa should be like dexplus for burns, considering the need for liquid silver.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby danno » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:47 pm #59473

How the hell do goone spessmen not keel over

do you have any idea how robust you are on goon
goon spacemen can take a fucking beating.
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:28 am #59487

Spoiler:
datum/reagent/carpet
name = "Carpet"
id = "carpet"
description = "A slippery solution."
reagent_state = LIQUID
color = "#C8A5DC" // rgb: 200, 165, 220

/datum/chemical_reaction/carpet
name = "carpet"
id = "carpet"
result = "carpet"
required_reagents = list("space_drugs" = 1, "blood" = 1)
result_amount = 2

We can make liquid carpet. This is literally useless, but I could see potential for an on-mix reaction to create carpet fibers, making it possible to make the station 62% more cozy.

Liquid Dark matter seems to just cause the area to get covered in dirt when used in a grenade. All goon pyro reactions just cause an EMP sound effect, sparks and what looks like a water spray effect, which is pissweak for a grenade going off.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby iamgoofball » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:33 am #59492

uh

silver is in the chem dispenser guys

you can easily mix it

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:49 am #59499

Point is, 1u chemical to 1 point of healing is fucking terrible. I need 2 50u pills or patches just to bring someone out of crit, while 10u of our chems will do the same. Toxins doing 3/3/3loss, or 1-10loss, or 5 loss, is op as fuck. A lot of the more situational chemicals are great, like something that clears reagents from the body, and more potent toxin heals are nice, but we really need to review these values and bring them in line with our existing chems, because as is they are either laughably useless, or gamebreakingly powerful.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby MMMiracles » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:05 am #59505

In patch form it acts as a bruise/burn pack essentially, you're trading off slow healing in exchange for quick instant application.
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby callanrockslol » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:41 am #59513

Jesus christ what the fuck you need to actually balance this or I'm going to murder everyone all the time as a double agent by accident
The most excessive signature on /tg/station13.

Still not even at the limit after 8 fucking years.

Spoiler:
Urist Boatmurdered [Security] asks, "Why does Zol have a captain-level ID?"
Zol Interbottom [Security] says, "because"

Sergie Borris lives on in our hearts

Zaros (No id) [145.9] says, "WITH MY SUPER WIZARD POWERS I CAN TELL CALLAN IS MAD."

Anderson Conagher wrote:Callan is sense.

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Cause it's a circle spinning around
I smile and make circular motions with my finger to imiatate it

petethegoat wrote:slap a comment on it and call it a feature

MisterPerson wrote:>playing
Do you think this is a game?

Gun Hog wrote:Untested code baby

oranges wrote:for some reason all our hosts turn into bohemia software communities after they implode

Malkevin wrote:I was the only one that voted for you Callan.

Miggles wrote:>centration development
>trucking
ill believe it when snakes grow arms and strangle me with them



OOC: Aranclanos: that sounds like ooc in ooc related to ic to be ooc and confuse the ic
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Admin PM from-Jordie0608: 33-Jan-2552| Warned: Is a giraffe dork ~tony abbott

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OOC: Eaglendia: Glad I got to see the rise, fall, rise, and fall of Zol

OOC: Armhulenn: CALLAN
OOC: Armhulenn: YOU MELTED MY FUCKING REVOLVER
OOC: Armhulenn: AND THEN
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OOC: Armhulenn: you know what's hilarious though
OOC: Armhulenn: I melted ANOTHER TRAITOR'S REVOLVER AFTER THAT

7/8/2016 never forget

Armhulen wrote:
John_Oxford wrote:>implying im not always right

all we're saying is that you're not crag son


bandit wrote:we already have a punishment for using our code for your game, it's called using our code for your game

The evil holoparasite user I can't believe its not DIO and his holoparasite I can't believe its not Skub have been defeated by the Spacedust Crusaders, but what has been taken from the station can never be returned.

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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am

Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:43 am #59546

MMMiracles wrote:In patch form it acts as a bruise/burn pack essentially, you're trading off slow healing in exchange for quick instant application.

I can put bicard in a patch too for super robust bruise packs. And the goon ones don't even stack, and have to be made in 50u batches to compare to bruise packs. They are universally shit. There's another recipe that has a 50/50 chance of healing brute at half the rate of bicard if they have more than 50 brute damage.

I think. If only the goon on touch chems work in patches, it doesn't even justify us being able to make them.

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Steelpoint
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:37 am #59560

As noted, Goon characters can take a lot of punishment and take a very, VERY, long time to die.

I've seen people have half of their limbs blown off from a explosion, yet they lived long enough to drag their dying body all the way from arrivals to medbay. Or I've been wailed on by a "wrestler Captain" for about two minutes and I still was alive after he threw me into a morgue tray.
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miggles
 
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby miggles » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:46 am #59576

all this ClF3 spam
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts

dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.

Connor wrote:miggles is correct though

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:57 am #59580

The new poisons are OP because Chemists do not know the recipes to counter them yet. As people learn more about Goonchem the poisons will be less effective. Besides, they are tator only poisons so i think its fine. Not like you can kill the station with a few 30unit bottles. Maybe increase the poison kit cost to 6 TC.

Snakebutt
 
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am

Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:03 am #59582

Alex Crimson wrote:The new poisons are OP because Chemists do not know the recipes to counter them yet. As people learn more about Goonchem the poisons will be less effective. Besides, they are tator only poisons so i think its fine. Not like you can kill the station with a few 30unit bottles. Maybe increase the poison kit cost to 6 TC.

nah, I can make most of the worst poisons without going to the potato market. One chemical clears ALL potential poisoning, so it won't even take that long for people to learn. They're OP because they can crit in 10 seconds without mixing with other chemicals, and can dunk fools like a damn pulse gun when mixed and put in a syringe gun. Their toxin damage is AT LEAST double anything we had before, if not x6 in the case of histamine.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:40 am #59590

You can only make Cyanide right now. Maybe Formaldehyde if you ever get some Silver, which you probably wont. The Super OP poisons(Venom, Polonium) are tator only. But yeah, mixing is still crazy. That has always been the case though.

Snakebutt
 
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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Snakebutt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:14 am #59591

I can make: Calomel (4tox loss, cures itself at 20 health)
Neurotoxin (1brain and 1toxloss, puts target to sleep in 17 cycles)
Formaldehyde (1toxloss, 10% chance to metabolize into histamine) Silver is in the dispensers.
Indirectly: Histamine (dosage greater than 20 does 5 to 10 oxy, brute and toxloss)
Crank (Dosage over 20 does 1 to 10 brain, tox and bruteloss)
If I can get my hands on morphine, I can make Krokodil, which does a STAGGERING 10-30 bruteloss)

Venom is just robust formaldehyde, only thing I really can't get as non-tator chem is polonium, which is easily countered by a prepared medbay with existing meds (arithrazine), or outright cured with new meds (calomel, pentetic acid)

For reference, Lexorin does 3oxyloss, and was our most robust chemical, critting in about 45-50 seconds.

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Re: Goon Chem Feedback

Postby Alex Crimson » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:45 am #59596

Calomel doesnt cure itself very fast. It just stops damaging you at 20% health. The reagent will still remain in your system and purge other reagents. Adding that to any kind of mix will not work, although i havent tested it with other stuff. Neurotoxin doesnt even work right now either.

Ill go test some combinations on a private server and see how fast they crit.

EDIT: Tried a mix with as many new chems as i could get. Including traitors chems. Didnt use Krokodil or Neurotoxin because they are bugged right now. So i made two pills with the following reagents...

Pill 1:

20 units of Crank
10 units of Formaldehyde
10 units of Cyanide
10 units of Venom

Pill 2:

20 units of Crank
10 units of Formaldehyde
10 units of Calomel
10 units of Venom

Pill 1 took me from 100% to crit in 13 seconds. Pill 2 took 27 seconds.
Last edited by Alex Crimson on Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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