Goon Chem Feedback

[Xhuis]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Because omnizine can kill people in higher doses, mediborgs end up killing more people than helping them when in an emergency.

[Bombadil]

Oh god you dumb fuck goofball you turned the stimulant disease into a murder disease because you get addicted to morphine from the disease that makes you faster

[allura]

that's funny, because the stimulant disease produces ephedrine.
which doesnt have addiction or overdose
:+)

[Wyzack]

I have asked a few times but never got an answer, does addiction ever go away? Is there some way to treat krok/crank/morphine addiction other than taking more drugs or killing/cloning yourself?

[DemonFiren]

Changelog says you can cold turkey it.

[MMMiracles]

I thought omnzine was the upgraded variant of tricked with no side effects? Or did that get changed?

[Wyzack]

Got me and Lindsay Donk really badly hooked on krokodil and ~20 mins later was still getting strong cravings, not to mention constant damage from withdrawl and complete skelefication. I feel like either the time or damage should be lowered, or maybe some chems to help it go away faster or mitigate the damage. As is you need near constant cryo/sleeper chems to not die from it.

[Pennwick]

I put up a PR to fix the addiction problem 2 days ago. Not sure why it hasn't gotten merged yet. Issue is that on the 4th stage of addiction the counter stops so any addiction will get stuck on the harshest phase until you die. Krokodil is especially deadly because it'll do 5 brute damage to you every 5th tick forever.

[iamgoofball]

I dunno why it hasn'tbeen merged yet either, I'll keep pestering the headcoders about it.

[Hornygranny]

Because of the extremely rapid pulse we're currently at, it's easy for something important to be overlooked. If you have an important fix, it's not a bad idea to notify the maintainers in IRC or by tagging @tgstation/commit-access in the PR.

[Comrade Leo]

Metal Foam grenades have stopped working (the ones that spawn on various maps). I'm not sure about the backpack's I've not tested them.

[Cheimon]

Having had a chance to try out the new system, I have to say that I like bits of it. Overall I think it could become a good new chemistry set, although at the moment it's far from perfect. I've been playing as a doctor so that I can try to use the new chemicals as they relate to medicine.

Some of the new ideas are really great. The way toxins are being treated now, with anti toxin and calomel purging other reagents, is a really interesting idea and it makes treating a big poisoning slightly different. That's a bit more fun.

Some of the new equipment is also interesting. The new patches are good for healing the touched area and then injecting some chems around to heal the rest. The fact they're single use isn't brilliant (old patches were stacks of 5) but being able to treat someone with lots of minor injuries with just one is nice. I don't like the way these have been labelled: calling it a 'burn' or a 'brute' patch isn't at all helpful. What I want as a doctor is to know exactly what I'm putting into someone and how many units it has, so that I can guarantee it will have a specific effect. As it is the only equipment I have to tell me that is a sleeper. I still think blood scanners ought to be standard doctoring equipment, but that's not relevant to this thread.

A few of the chemicals seem downright useless. Saline-glucose solution, for example, is the new bicaridine/dermaline mix for sleepers. But instead of being a fast and effective chemical, it offers only a chance to heal someone. I don't mind so much that it's weak (although it's annoying and means default sleepers aren't really useful for anything but blood scanning and emergency anti-oxyloss medicine) but the fact that it's chance based is incredibly frustrating. As a doctor, I want to be able to use my knowledge and equipment to quickly and reliably treat someone. Having better chems be random isn't interesting or fun, just tedious (and makes me more likely to just try pumping someone full of these chemicals than paying attention to specific doses...actually, were it not 'free' I would never use saline-glucose). Same goes for salicylic acid. The only reason I would ever use that is because I have spare pill in my belt and it's taking up space.

Silver Sulfadiazine, Styptic Powder, and Synthflesh are all nice, easy to use (and reliable!) chems that work well and are great for doctors.

Currently the way things are working as I've seen in medbay is this: chemists produce a bunch of patches and label them with exactly what's in them and leave them available at medbay lobby (this is exactly the same as before with tricord pills, except now you may need to grab a few more patches instead of just one pill). Problematic patients (anyone who doesn't know what the patches are, is in crit, or has toxin damage) go into medbay, get quickly scanned (and possibly given epinephrine, which seems to be very powerful) and tossed into cryo. If they have special problems (brain damage, loss of hearing, whatever) they get the specific chemical, otherwise they stay in cryo until they're done, because the sleepers are now slower than cryo at healing and because the tube automatically unlocks.

For the most part I'm happy with the new system. Perhaps healing was too easy. Of the main changes, toxin treatment is better, patches are different but not necessarily worse, cryo is less complex (and therefore slightly worse) and the sleepers are much less effective but till generally useful (but not for their previous purpose).

As a final note I'd really prefer to see some of the names for chemicals improved. Our previous system had most of them pretty easily typed and remembered, and they sounded like brand names in the real world (because the star trek writers intended them to). Currently our chemicals are half and half: some of them are left over from the star trek system and so sound similair (inacusiate, ethylredoxrazine, cryoxadone, loeporazine, spaceacillin), some of them sound like plain old chemical compounds (silver sulfadiazine, salicylic acid, potassium iodide) and some of them are a weird half way house (oculine, mannitol, "life"-what a stupid chem name-, omnizine). If you can think of a way to make the name of a chemical express what it is and what it does, ideally even how to use it, then you would massively improve the system. I'm not sure if this is possible or if this is just a reaction to having strange and different names (probably the second) but something that would explain the chemical in the name would be great. So say if you were naming oxyloss medicines, you might call tier 1 (epinephrine, say) Oxycon, tier 2 (salbutamol) Oxyzine, and tier 3 (perfluorodecalin) Oxylin. At the moment there's nothing linking those medicines in name, even though all of them have that apparent purpose. Maybe that's a bad idea, but at the moment the names seem almost random. Perhaps they make more sense to chemists and are intended as a recipe for them? That can't be true for all of them.

[Wyzack]

Salisylic acid is the active ingredient in aspirin, and is a painkiller. Not sure why goon decided it would be a healing medicing, but hey, makes as much sense as krokodil

EDIT I do totally agree though, a more consistent naming scheme would be nice, no one says we need to be exactly like goon

[Snakebutt]

no one says we need to be exactly like goon

Yet here we are, verbatim copying goon without any of their sekkrit clubhouse stuff.

What next, bay cargo where every last item mined and ordered needs to have documentation signed in triplicate as well as retinal scans and stool samples before any of it can be delivered?

[Alex Crimson]

Why are Medipens all broken? Every single one ive seen, including the one that starts in my box, shows up empty/used.

[Wyzack]

This must be a new bug because i used a few like 2-3 days ago

[Cipher3]

I used one last night.

[dezzmont]

Why are Medipens all broken? Every single one ive seen, including the one that starts in my box, shows up empty/used.

Goonchem messed up a lot of stuff but I am pretty sure medipens still work considering how absolutely devistating it was for someone to use them on you.

[Alex Crimson]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/7322

There is a PR up to fix it now.

[Cik]

are we supposed to be able to see what's in the patient's bloodstream? i thought i used to be able to with the cyborg patient analyzer thing, but can't anymore; really difficult not to OD people in frantic circumstances and then they take toxin / brute / burn for the next 10 minutes or whatever.

can you return it to the way it was(?) so that it's avertable?

[Snakebutt]

Sleeper automatically reads reagents in the body, and I think there's a blood scanner thing you inject blood samples into, but that might be bay.

[DemonFiren]

We do have a spectrometer that takes blood samples. Research can make those and usually doesn't.

[Pennwick]

Spectrometer probably needs a rework. None start in medbay and the basic version only tests what reagents are in the bloodstream. You need the advanced version to tell how much. It would be much easier to use if it skipped the taking blood sample and inject it into the scanner steps and just let you use it directly on the paitents.

[Bombadil]

I kinda like the idea of having really strong chems. They just need to be hard to produce. Gate them behind multiple recipes and result in 1-2 units.

Yeah you could probably stack different poisons to virtually insta-crit someone, but you can only produce 2 of the new poisons via chemistry and one requires silver. I was going for a "you are slowly dying and there is nothing you can do" pill. Considering Mute Toxin requires Uranium it was hard to do before. Now we have glorious Perfluorodecalin.

A gate in the form of a multi tier formula is not a gate at all. You would need to either introduce resource scarcity for ingredients in high end reactions or make each stage require high skill and focus to produce successfully. Otherwise it is about as hard as printing trichord, not at all. The only mixed in code that are hard to pull off are complex grenade mixes due to how you need to mentally mix them so as not to cause conflicts.

Eventually people will make macros to mix chems

[Alex Crimson]

Im surprised people complain about the heater in the first place. You do not even need to use it more than once for each chemical, technically. Beakers retain their heat level forever so you can just have a box of beakers at various heat levels and use them to mix stuff straight from the Chem Dispenser.

[Bombadil]

Im surprised people complain about the heater in the first place. You do not even need to use it more than once for each chemical, technically. Beakers retain their heat level forever so you can just have a box of beakers at various heat levels and use them to mix stuff straight from the Chem Dispenser.

Apparently that can lead to chems overheating and gibbing you