Note on power and engines

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PKPenguin321
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:05 am #550251

tbh the teg is just the turbine but you plug into it directly instead of pumping air in front of it so it's not a huge loss, theyre almost the same thing
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:10 am #550252

Can we keep the turbine
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby oranges » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:02 am #550256

yes

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby BeeSting12 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:17 am #550265

is the antimatter engine still a thing? if so why?
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby NoxVS » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:33 am #550266

BeeSting12 wrote:is the antimatter engine still a thing? if so why?

Im pretty sure its gone

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby CPTANT » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:59 am #550274

How will this impact the division of labour between atmos and engineering?

I feel the engine is becoming more and more an atmos device and it keeps getting harder to justify the division of engineering into atmos techs and engineers.
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Critawakets » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:55 pm #550328

reminder the TEG's OPness can be changed by a single define

also TEG should stay as a sidegrade to the turbine for the engine. More power potential, but you have to contend with piping, no residual gases, no stored heat and a cold loop.
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby oranges » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:05 pm #550349

CPTANT wrote:How will this impact the division of labour between atmos and engineering?

I feel the engine is becoming more and more an atmos device and it keeps getting harder to justify the division of engineering into atmos techs and engineers.

They will share it, as cousins share an xbox (i.e fighting over who gets to use the good controller)

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby NoxVS » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:48 am #550431

If this was done would there be changes to how atmos and gas reactions work? Right now my biggest problem with atmos and things involving gas is the same reason I dont play goon - it feels like it requires metaknowledge to use. You either know what mix produces a fuckton of power / can be "accidentally" released to kill the entire station, or you know nothing and have no choice but to just fuck off

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby angelstarri » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:25 pm #550516

how about actually try to learn the system and experiment rather than immediately quitting because you think its too hard (protip: its not)
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I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Cobby » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:57 pm #550580

tbf admins in the past have said they will ban you for experimenting (and it blowing) when you can just set it up safely, dunno if this is still an issue though.
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:51 pm #550592

Cobby wrote:tbf admins in the past have said they will ban you for experimenting (and it blowing) when you can just set it up safely, dunno if this is still an issue though.


I mean currently you have to fuck up pretty badly for it to actually delaminate.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Relaxe » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:00 pm #550794

So instead of buffing radiation collectors so they're able to do the job they were intended to do, you'd opt to reduce the supermatter crystal into an overly complicated and excessively dangerous Thermoelectric generator, which freezers and heaters could power more effectively? Your rationale for doing this is because radiation is laggy?

angelstarri wrote:how about actually try to learn the system and experiment rather than immediately quitting because you think its too hard (protip: its not)

Only, if you fuck up during this experimentation process, you get arrested, job banned, or murdered, or all three.

oranges wrote:yes I will remove them all.


that's a weird decision since everyone's reply to this thread so far is how they could avoid or ignore this change at all costs.
If I start running around the station with a supercharged yellow slime core and an inducer, are you going to remove that too?

oranges wrote:you answered the question in your own response
none of which have been touched in years apart from bare bones maintenance.

Nobody will seriously argue that the Tesla, TEG or singularity even approach the basic simulation depth encountered with the supermatter.
The supermatter has this depth because I have applied a relentless focus and commitment to cementing it as the sole engine.


Read: Nobody is allowed to use anything other than the machine I worked on. Everything else will be removed. I will completely rework the game until only that which I have personally worked on is used. This is because my system is best.

If you want variation in engine design, then you can use each engine type on a different station. Meta can use SM, Delta could use Tesla, Etc. The lowest effort answer which isn't destructive would be to fix radiation collectors to be useful.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:58 pm #550836

Bro he's getting rid of rad collectors because you can glitch the radiation contamination system to generate like 80MW with pure n2 not because it's "laggy".

...Relax dude :^)

Also wtf do you mean "buff rad collectors"? They work perfectly fine?

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby TheFinalPotato » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:16 pm #550838

Relaxe wrote:Read: Nobody is allowed to use anything other than the machine I worked on. Everything else will be removed. I will completely rework the game until only that which I have personally worked on is used. This is because my system is best.

If you want variation in engine design, then you can use each engine type on a different station. Meta can use SM, Delta could use Tesla, Etc. The lowest effort answer which isn't destructive would be to fix radiation collectors to be useful.


This is just wrong. Oranges has not been the author of any of the recent major changes to the sm. Hell it's not even our engine, we ported it from bay 6 years ago and supercharged it.

I am curious about what you mean by useful tho. What about rad collectors needs changed?
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:00 am #550845

XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Bro he's getting rid of rad collectors because you can glitch the radiation contamination system to generate like 80MW with pure n2 not because it's "laggy".

...Relax dude :^)

Also wtf do you mean "buff rad collectors"? They work perfectly fine?

>"radiation is buggy so let's make the engine depend on gas temperatures"
>gas temperatures is an order of magnitude buggier
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby deedubya » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 am #550847

PKPenguin321 wrote:
XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Bro he's getting rid of rad collectors because you can glitch the radiation contamination system to generate like 80MW with pure n2 not because it's "laggy".

...Relax dude :^)

Also wtf do you mean "buff rad collectors"? They work perfectly fine?

>"radiation is buggy so let's make the engine depend on gas temperatures"
>gas temperatures is an order of magnitude buggier
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:14 am #550849

To be fair, when temperature bugs out it sorta kills everyone (when not in a canister) which is different in scope to how when you exploit (not really a bug) how radiation works it's perfectly safe to anyone not in the engine - and lmao assistants automatically dying when they trespass is a feature.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby TheFinalPotato » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:55 am #550857

deedubya wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:
XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Bro he's getting rid of rad collectors because you can glitch the radiation contamination system to generate like 80MW with pure n2 not because it's "laggy".

...Relax dude :^)

Also wtf do you mean "buff rad collectors"? They work perfectly fine?

>"radiation is buggy so let's make the engine depend on gas temperatures"
>gas temperatures is an order of magnitude buggier
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can't wait for Plasmeme XXX to fusion flood the SM and make the entire z-level uninhabitable for the 3892489234th time

Bruh I thought I fixed that.
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Relaxe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:34 pm #550913

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Relaxe » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:36 pm #551193

It just occurred to me that this thread started with "The supermatter is so bugged that we need to refactor it" and it wasn't even two pages in before the "we will only use the supermatter engine" conclusion was reached. You can't even order the supermatter from cargo, or set it up from scratch.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby trollbreeder » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:53 pm #551200

Relaxe wrote:You can't even order the supermatter from cargo, or set it up from scratch.

Wrong, you can get a supermatter shard from cargo. You can do really wacky things with those, including incredibly tiny setups and "Throw the SM into the SM!" memes
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:15 pm #551219

Relaxe wrote:You can't even order the supermatter from cargo


Yeah you can lmao

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby angelstarri » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:15 pm #551242

peanut brain player: *wildly tosses every gas in the sm and complains about getting action taken against them for ""experimenting""*
me, an intellectual: *uses math equations and data publicly available in the wiki and from other fellow engineer mains, consults with chief engineer and other department friends to ask if experimenting is okay, keep contingency gas and other measures to secure the sm in case it delaminates, accepts the reality that experimenting with a hyper reactive energy crystal is bound to have its risks and accept them to drive science forward*
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I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby angelstarri » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:16 pm #551243

Cobby wrote:tbf admins in the past have said they will ban you for experimenting (and it blowing) when you can just set it up safely, dunno if this is still an issue though.


retard cobby cat it would do you some good to actually play the game and know current admin policy instead of talking with your boomer 2010 mindset
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I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby oranges » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:21 am #551275

The new shadowflame909 competition is getting out of hand.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Cobby » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:11 am #551281

angelstarri wrote:
Cobby wrote:tbf admins in the past have said they will ban you for experimenting (and it blowing) when you can just set it up safely, dunno if this is still an issue though.


retard cobby cat it would do you some good to actually play the game and know current admin policy instead of talking with your boomer 2010 mindset


as it stands rn there's no headmin ruling for it per https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Rulings

not sure how playing would change that. I personally don't/didn't ban for it so any ruling changes would not have affected me.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby deedubya » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:26 am #551288

possible confirmation bias, but I saw people get warned/beaned for it fairly often, mostly because it's hard to tell if it's intentional or not, and multiple delams over multiple rounds can be seen as repeated griefing instead of continued experimentation.
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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:23 am #551295

deedubya wrote:possible confirmation bias, but I saw people get warned/beaned for it fairly often, mostly because it's hard to tell if it's intentional or not, and multiple delams over multiple rounds can be seen as repeated griefing instead of continued experimentation.

The thing is it's incredibly easy to recover from almost anything if you have a decent understanding of the generic engine.

If you delam the engine multiple times in a row it's safe to assume either you fucked it on purpose (and are trying to play off that you're a bumbling idiot) or you really have absolutely no idea what you're doing any maybe you should take a break from the engine because your incredible ineptitude is ruining other player's rounds and you really should learn the basic concepts first.

If you really are going balls to the walls experimental mad scientist then it should be quite apparent that your setup is incredibly different to what everyone expects (and really you should know what is going to kill the crystal or not and be able to salvage anything barring some guy BoH bombing it).

Hell especially if you let off singuloth/tesla. It's believable that some idiot accidentally telsas the station because the condition is amazingly easy but singuloth outright requires a condition that will never come naturally so you can practically guarantee it was intentional from someone.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby crashmatusow » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:40 am #551613

Okay, some quick notes from my work on containment:

Field generators grant turfs underneath infinite heat resistance. These probably need some cleanup for corner cases.

A turf only runs melt checks if it has an active hotspot. This means walls can never melt. Pipes are not designed to melt. This would require working with pipenet code.

Most turfs have obscene heat capacity. Reinforced plating is infinite.

Maybe with rads gone running heat checks all the time won’t be so bad.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby Actionb » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:30 pm #554395

Power generation is totally unbalanced right now. and radiation collectors are memeable thanks to items being irradiated.


XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Bro he's getting rid of rad collectors because you can glitch the radiation contamination system to generate like 80MW with pure n2 not because it's "laggy".

getting rid of rad collectors because you can glitch the radiation contamination system

because you can glitch the radiation contamination system

because you can glitch the radiation

glitch


Solution: remove everything around the glitched interaction... what.

Why even bother with pretense. Just say that you want to axe singulo and tesla because, in your plan, they have no future.
This would at least make it clear that there's no point arguing for their continued existence.

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Re: Note on power and engines

Postby oranges » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:53 pm #554458

I have been clear I want to axe those engines for about a year and a half.

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