I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

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confused rock
 
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I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby confused rock » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:08 am #565335

I bring this up for one specific reason: when megafauna were added, the reason kor justified for them being able to get on station was that a singularity was just as easy to release and did just as much damage. Only now, releasing a singulo isn't exactly as easy since the singulo isn't the fucking engine of the station any more, and we changed that because the singularity was too destructive. if the singularity is too destructive, so are megafauna. They're completely ridiculous and laser weapons deal half damage to them because fuck you station.
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:21 am #565340

megafauna on station is rare and takes more effort than "turn plasma pipe on" , the laser armor thing is dumb and should be removed tho

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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby XDTM » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:44 am #565346

Megafauna are balanced for a completely different environment. It takes a fairly skilled miner to take one down in ideal conditions with proper equipment. How is the crew supposed to fight against that kind of enemy, but in cramped corridors, with weapons that have both less damage and limited ammo, before it destroys enough of the station and kills enough people to reach the point of no return and a shuttle call is forced?
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:22 am #565359

XDTM wrote:Megafauna are balanced for a completely different environment. It takes a fairly skilled miner to take one down in ideal conditions with proper equipment. How is the crew supposed to fight against that kind of enemy, but in cramped corridors, with weapons that have both less damage and limited ammo, before it destroys enough of the station and kills enough people to reach the point of no return and a shuttle call is forced?


megafauna has got a lot of cheese

like >instant gib moves that heal

>Armor nullfication in melee, with some moves bypassing unless your the colossus, then armor nullification any range.

>Resistance to everything under the son

Even addressing one of these would make it so much easier to take them down

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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby cacogen » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:24 am #565368

why does lavaland have different balance to the rest of the game anyway
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:55 am #565372

cacogen wrote:why does lavaland have different balance to the rest of the game anyway


Original lavaland coder made it so run around because they didn't want a meta of miner grabbing a shotgun from the armory and one shooting every lavaland mob and megafauna

so they made their health powercreeped along with all their resistances and moves, effectively nullifying all the ERT armors and otherwise OP weapons like katanas and dark blessing, and even holoparas, in exchange for fully upgraded KA's doing 100 damage in no pressure.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby XDTM » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:02 am #565374

cacogen wrote:why does lavaland have different balance to the rest of the game anyway


As far as i know it's so there can be a PvE combat focused job without interfering with existing PvP balance (i.e. miner weapons are bad in PvP and PvP weapons do not make mining weapons obsolete in return). It does kinda make sense, but it causes issues if PvE enemies interact with PvP balance like in these cases.

(There's also the whole matter of miner loot making miners good in PvP anyway, and that's a different issue that is half powercreep and half a hamfisted attempt to make miners interact with the station they're separated from by design.)
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby Arianya » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:15 am #565378

Shadowflame909 wrote:like >instant gib moves that heal


This one is already addressed, it won't work on station z-level
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby confused rock » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:29 am #565718

it's rare because most people know that it's completely uninteresting and just kills the round. it takes a lot of effort on one guy though, but that's just it, it's one guy trying to get it onto the station. the station has next to no way of expecting this as lavaland isn't even on the fucking station, by the time security knows that guy was bringing a dragon onto the station it's already on the station. even the singulo required it to be unguarded. with the dragon the entire station is punished with a completely ruined round for one traitor being decent enough to bait a dragon onto the shuttle. They're punished for a single traitor doing something that requires no interaction with other players. dumb.
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby NoxVS » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:58 pm #565817

Thank god it's not possible to do this anymore

By far my best round as clown. Made a free-range megafauna petting zoo

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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby Kel » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:59 am #565833

guess im a weirdo but i actually enjoy when megafauna is on the station, the struggle to survive against difficult odds is the funnest aspect of the game for me and i also like it when the crew manage to rally together to beat a legitimately difficult threat. but i also liked it when the singulo got released for the same reason and 99% of the playerbase apparently hated it so i guess this mindset isnt very popular.
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby cacogen » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:48 am #565844

Shadowflame909 wrote:
cacogen wrote:why does lavaland have different balance to the rest of the game anyway


Original lavaland coder made it so run around because they didn't want a meta of miner grabbing a shotgun from the armory and one shooting every lavaland mob and megafauna

so they made their health powercreeped along with all their resistances and moves, effectively nullifying all the ERT armors and otherwise OP weapons like katanas and dark blessing, and even holoparas, in exchange for fully upgraded KA's doing 100 damage in no pressure.

You could just remove these protections if their z-level changed to the station, as well as the reward for killing them if this was exploitable. Not sure why the PkA can't only do extra damage to megafauna in any pressure either.
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Re: I ded: stop lavaland megafauna from getting on station.

Postby NecromancerAnne » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:22 am #565934

Shadowflame909 wrote:
cacogen wrote:why does lavaland have different balance to the rest of the game anyway


Original lavaland coder made it so run around because they didn't want a meta of miner grabbing a shotgun from the armory and one shooting every lavaland mob and megafauna

so they made their health powercreeped along with all their resistances and moves, effectively nullifying all the ERT armors and otherwise OP weapons like katanas and dark blessing, and even holoparas, in exchange for fully upgraded KA's doing 100 damage in no pressure.


That's not quite how it has panned out. For starters, PKA's are just brute guns, and when modded for damage do 70 brute, as they are 40 baseline and each mod adds 10. Damage is not really how you should be modding, however. I believe for most megafauna you want range and at least one damage mod so you can kite more effectively. The only one with an actual tangible damage reduction is Bubblegum, who reduces the severity of bombs on himself, so you can't bomb him to death. There isn't anything that differentiates a bullet from the PKA against megafauna, as megafauna have a x1 brute mod. The difference is against burn weapons, like the hierophant staff and laser guns, as well as welders, since they have a x0.5 burn mod.

This means that katanas do full damage to megafauna, as do PKC's which are just melee weapons as well. The reason you don't melee megafauna isn't because they're resistant to the damage. It's because in melee is usually where their biggest damage is found, such as the colossus' shotgun and Bubblegum's entire moveset. You CAN kill Blood-Drunk Miner and Hierophant in melee, and in fact that is actually the most effective way to fight them. I once, as an armorless QM after some idiot miner brought up the blood-drunk miner, faced him with a cursed katana another miner had given me. The block chance was all I needed to win that fight, and I could have done it with a normal shield as well along with a decent melee weapon like a circular saw.

Additionally, most of the megafauna DO respect melee armor in most relevant areas. The ERT armors are some of the few armors that will allow you to get a tangible benefit against megafauna attacks. It's just mostly that they hit frequently, and I think of the megafauna the drake mostly just ends up penetrating almost all your armor anyway since many of its attacks do adjust rather than apply_damage.

If the aim was to make megafauna harder to fight with guns, it failed only to the point that PKA's are endless slug guns and therefore more valuable than other weapons for the battle of attrition involved in fighting megafauna. But you can kill bubblegum with a WT550, it just takes a very long time, which means more room to make mistakes. You could kill him with a makarov with enough clips too. You just wouldn't since PKAs have endless ammo.

I'll be honest, whenever I read comments like this I suspect it's from people who either have no idea what they're talking about or who, even though they might fight the megafauna regularly, have no idea what the actual mechanics are doing and just make assumptions that their weapon is the only one that can fight the megafauna. It has been well established that lifebringers with gatfruit can wipe lavaland of life, and ashlizards can IN THEORY kill every megafauna with a bone spear. The major contributing factor to the power of megafauna on the station is more to do with movement constrictions and megafauna just literally wading through walls like they're nothing since they qdel most structures. You only have so many places you can walk, they have literally the entire screen.


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