PSA / FEEDBACK: Bleeding and stuff

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:53 pm #65724

Bleeding mechanics and blood loss was recently added to the game. It might not even be live on the server yet, and if it isn't, it's even more important that you read the quick guide below:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_m ... ute_Damage

This will cover the entire process of treating bleeding as well as transfusions and donations.

Feedback/questions/suggestions below on this new mechanic. It also affects blood streaks, splatters, etc.

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:06 am #65756

So can genetics make a blood bank of humanised monkeys that they just constantly leech blood from?
Also can blood type get changed via genetics or no?

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:58 am #65766

REALLY PAP? REALLY? NO MENTION OF THIS IN THE CHANGELOG! WHAT THE FUCK

Post by **MMMiracles** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:03 am #65768

Filling an empty bloodpack still keeps it as 'empty' even if it has the full sprite.

You can still take blood samples from corpses you've drained of blood via IV drip or otherwise.

Theres a bloodtype thats just blank.

danno · Post by **danno** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:34 am #65778

Bombadil wrote:REALLY PAP? REALLY? NO MENTION OF THIS IN THE CHANGELOG! WHAT THE FUCK

They did make a changelog. It hasn't been merged with the rest of the changelogs, PR'd, and then merged. That's not on them.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:41 am #65779

>Not calling the thread THE BLOODENING.

Shameful display.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:46 am #65780

Hospital_Gown_complete.gif

Did you use these IVs or make something new?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:59 am #65781

I had to make abomination codersprite IVs because those would NEVER show up on white medbay tiles.

Someone is free to resprite them later and stuff.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:13 am #65787

It seems i cannot bloody someone's nose by punching them in the face. Is this a bug or can you only bleed from cutting weapons? This is important for my toughguy detective routine.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:25 am #65792

Wyzack wrote:It seems i cannot bloody someone's nose by punching them in the face. Is this a bug or can you only bleed from cutting weapons? This is important for my toughguy detective routine.

It looks like only limbs are supposed to cause bleeding.

My question is if we can get a way to produce artificial blood? Something like clonex mixed with saline solution? The amount of chemical that is in a unit is actually really low, so drawing blood would be optimal, but having alternate ways to get treatment is nice. Also looks like a good place for genetics and virology to be helpful too.

Other than that looks way better than the shitty version we had for a while from

Spoiler:

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:39 am #65835

dezzmont wrote:
Spoiler:
goonchem.

I never even added bleeding.

Tsaricide · Post by **Tsaricide** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:13 am #65840

This really messes with changelings since their fleshmend and regenerating doesn't restore blood so you'll just pass out again within a minute or two depending on how much blood you lost.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:35 pm #65892

dezzmont wrote:snip

I am like 90% sure you can bleed from the face, i got Danno to pinch my head with wirecutters to try it out the very first round it was implemented. However a solid unarmed shitkicking by 2 people didn't seem to cause bleeding, will need to experiment further

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:04 pm #65901

>You cant drink blood packs for nutrients or throw them to cause blood to spray all over what they hit
I was saddened by this. Step it up pap.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:54 pm #65921

iamgoofball wrote:
dezzmont wrote:
Spoiler:
goonchem.
I never even added bleeding.

I herfed. I have associated goonchem and baymed so heavily that they have become intertwined in my brain.

To be fair to you, though I despise goonchem, it was never as bad as baymed.

ExplosiveCrate · Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:02 pm

Tsaricide wrote:This really messes with changelings since their fleshmend and regenerating doesn't restore blood so you'll just pass out again within a minute or two depending on how much blood you lost.

Do any antags even have any ways to stop bleeding?

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:04 pm #65944

Yup. Gauze, stealing bloodpacks, or paying off doctors to patch you up in maintenance without reporting you to Security. Of course the best way to stop bleeding is to never start bleeding at all.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:15 pm #65950

Keep in mind bleeding and blood transfusions aren't really required. All you have to do is HEAL THE BRUTE DAMAGE and bleeding will stop by default. Gauze only exists to give you breathing room when you're bleeding or your patient is bleeding to heal the damage, you won't even need gauze under most circumstances, it's for triage.

You won't need blood transfusions under normal circumstances either much. People's hearts produce their own blood natrually, this includes changelings and wizards. However, there is an IV drip in maint surgery (above the security checkpoint) if you want to steal some blood or maybe a 'donor' willing to give you some.

Not-Dorsidarf · Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:25 pm

Or using wirecutters on the dorms bedsheets.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:31 pm #65981

You should be able to right click > Make bandages for things like bedsheets, bandanas and jumpsuits.

Post by **Jacquerel** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:53 pm #65986

question: when are you going to add the ability for changelings (or doctors) to pump extra blood into people so that they take pressure damage and/or explode

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:27 pm #66024

donate to my patreon i guess

Pennwick · Post by **Pennwick** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:49 am #66096

I think bloodtypes are random for you Ckey each round. Or that might just be on the character screen. It could be random when you actually spawn in.

It might be nice to have at least one source of O- on the medbay staff. Maybe roundstart CMOs could always have the blood type.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:53 am #66099

Now that we do have bleeding and blood mechanics, how much longer until we get vampire mode?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:56 am #66104

The blood that works for everyone.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:59 am #66109

Apparently under Baymed, which we're imitating here, there is.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:26 am #66116

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:11 am #66123

Violaceus wrote:There is no such kind of blood.

In game there might not be but IRL O negative is called the universal blood type. Any blood type can accept O negative blood.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:34 am #66129

Just like we dont have singularity engines either, luckily for us we can just shrug and say "future tech".

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:25 am #66219

I might be German, but 'MURKA FUCK YEAH

Incomptinence · Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:51 pm

Most of the English speaking countries call it that too I think. We don't care enough about blood type to have slang about it yet.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:10 am #66433

DemonFiren wrote:Now that we do have bleeding and blood mechanics, how much longer until we get vampire mode?

I've already started using the IV and empty packs to leech blood out of other people stealthily and then inject it into myself.
Most people don't know how the IV works anyway.

MUWAHAHAHAH

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:42 am #66468

please make fleshmend give blood k thanks

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:39 am #66591

We can't do "ZERO" negative, we need to do "O" negative, because of how the game handles these things. People just say 'OH negative' irl anyway

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:33 pm #66662

I'm enjoying it so far. It's a nice addition to patient treatment without being wildly complicated or always necessary.

I'd love to see some way of scanning mysterious blood to find out its type. Now and then I've seen people leave it in beakers or whatever and then it's not useful at all unless immediately labelled. Maybe if medbay ever gets portable spectrometers to scan patients blood they could also scan blood in a glass.

Is this integrated with injecting/drawing blood? Can a chemist making fleshmend with his own blood expect to have problems? Can a corpse run out of blood and not be drawn for more? I haven't checked this yet, thought I might as well ask.

Improvised bandages seem neat, but as far as I know you can only make them by wirecuttering bedsheets. Are there any plans to allow people to tear their jumpsuits (you know, by hand) to make a bandage?

Also, if that chart for blood types is accurate to the game's situation can we get something to that effect visible in game or on the wiki? I think with a lot of medbay equipment a series of posters in game would work well but that's another suggestion and not really relevant to this thread.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:36 pm #66663

>Being able to literally rip peoples clothes off

2lewd4me

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:10 pm #66685

Wyzack wrote:>Being able to literally rip peoples clothes off

2lewd4me

I'm assuming you'd have to take your jumpsuit off and then right-click tear it or something. Seems the most logical way to balance it.

Somejerk · Post by **Somejerk** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:32 pm #66690

Walked away from the IV drip, enjoyed the flavor text on that one. System seems alright though could research make some kind of artificial blood in case of emergencies? Maybe have it require a high biological research level to make it along with some kind of chemical requirements.

Pennwick · Post by **Pennwick** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:40 pm #66728

There's already quite a bit of blood available. You have 6 packs of varying types in surgery, willing donors, monkeymen donors (bugged but in the future most likely), ordering more from cargo, and giving iron pills and toughing it out. Blood loss is only lethal at very high levels, though the oxygen damage it does it annoying it wont kill you uneless you have other damage too and 2 or 3 big ol iron pills will regenerate 100u of blood each if I did my math right. What would be nice is more sources for blood bags, if someone hacks into surgery and runs off with the crate Medbay is forced to order more through cargo. Maybe blood bags could be made in the protolathe or autolathe.

Other bandage sources might be nice. It seems a little silly to NEED wirecutters though. Perhaps you could get more if you use wirecutters and only one or two if you used your bare hands.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:50 pm #66731

imo there shouldnt be a way to synthesize blood. Being able to just whip a bunch up in chemistry or R&D would lessen the mechanic...? Or something like that.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:30 pm #67009

Yes, having iron pills replace blood reduces the point of transplants somewhat. I hate it when magic chemicals replace unique pieces of doctor equipment, it makes the interesting and complex IV system somewhat pointless.

Pennwick · Post by **Pennwick** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:14 pm #67072

Iron pills are quite slow for replenishing blood. It takes about 50u to replace 100u of blood and the persons feeling woozy the whole time. Iron pills are good to give to donors or people who are just barely in the low category or just need to get topped off.

Speaking of donors though medbay needs a donor appreciation box filled with sugar cookies and 'I donated' stickers.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:08 am #67086

Pennwick wrote:Iron pills are quite slow for replenishing blood. It takes about 50u to replace 100u of blood and the persons feeling woozy the whole time. Iron pills are good to give to donors or people who are just barely in the low category or just need to get topped off.

Speaking of donors though medbay needs a donor appreciation box filled with sugar cookies and 'I donated' stickers.

You mean buttons that are a subtype of medals so you can pin them onto people's jumpsuits? Can-do.

Somejerk · Post by **Somejerk** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:46 pm #67363

I noticed there isn't really a way to tell what blood type monkeys have although I haven't got around to using a forensic scanner. Interesting thing though, all monkeys have infinite blood. I've taken 100u out of myself and it leaves me nearly pale but if you do the same to a monkey their health doesn't drop.

Is there any way to retrieve the blood from bags without hooking someone up to it?

beequeen · Post by **beequeen** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:24 am #67857

Tsaricide wrote:This really messes with changelings since their fleshmend and regenerating doesn't restore blood so you'll just pass out again within a minute or two depending on how much blood you lost.

Aside from those regnerating blood, absorbing should also regenerate blood - after all, all that husks' blood has to go somewhere!

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:50 am #67871

Fleshmend and revive stasis now restore your blood levels as well!

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:36 pm #67967

Does having excess blood affect you in any way?
I haven't tried much further but I was dicking around and got up to 120% blood in me with no strange effects.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sun May 03, 2015 9:02 am #85473

Someone else will have to code this, obviously, but:

- It would be cool if vomiting blood, instead of doing brute, actually depleted your blood supply. Would add a different dimension to viruses and make this symptom deadly in its own way as blood is limited.
- Drawing blood should deplete blood by a very very VERY small amount if it doesn't already. Same for cult and blood runes. Would also make cult less metagamable as it's harder to tell bloodloss than brute damage.
- Some kind of synthetic blood substitute, cookable in chemistry, I have no idea what the chems would be but it should be moderately difficult to make. For when you run out of blood and cargo is being shit. Would probably have to be less efficient than actual blood.

Also possible:

- Blood types currently are exactly the same as they are IRL, but it would be interesting if humans could only take human blood and lizards could only take lizard blood, via some other marker like Rh-positive/negative.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun May 03, 2015 9:37 am #85477

Id rather not have synthetic blood. just turns blood loss into another thing chemists can fix with some super chemical. Boring. Making it more complicated(humans/lizards having different blood types) wouldnt help either. Its bad enough with the current blood types.

Adding a symptom that causes massive bleeding would be cool though.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sun May 03, 2015 10:34 am #85481

Drawing blood does already take some blood, in my experience. Useful as a ghetto blood pack if you're compatible with the other guy.

I agree, chemistry blood sounds pointless. Why would you even want to use the starting packs if you could do that? Better to just use the empty blood packs and have blood drives among the crew.