Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

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Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:40 pm #66933

I made a pull request on github (https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/7572) that changes cooking. It hasn't been merged yet, but I guess I can open a feedback thread right now. Here are the details of the change:

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1) Recipes cooking is no longer done with the microwave, it now uses table crafting (clickdrag a table with ingredients on it).
Advantages:
- you no longer need to have the wiki always open to play a competent chef, the tablecraft system tells you if there's a match.
- you no longer have to load items one by one in the microwave, you use the tray to unload multiple ingredients on your table
- You can no longer make the mistake of adding a wrong item resulting in having to eject everything (which means losing all your reagents), you just put whatever ingredients and reagent containers you want onto your table.
- No more matching recipe failure resulting in machine breaking/getting dirty, the tablecraft window now tells you which recipes you can make with the ingredients on the table.
- It gives more visibility to tablecraft. Lots of players don't even know it exists so making it the core of cooking will help.

2) Customizable food (heavily inspired by iamgoofball's work) can be prepared by slapping an ingredient onto a base item (breadslices for custom sandwich, bun for custom burger, plaincake for custom cake, etc...). You can make custom cake, burger, sandwich, spaghetti, salad, soup, bread, kebab, pie but none of the silly things goofballs was proposing.
Advantages:
- Adds more creativity to cooking
- Great alternative to fixed tablecrafted recipes and both systems are balanced, each having their advantages

3) New food ingredients (mostly ported from baystation12). They are dough, flatdough, doughslice, bun, pizzabread, cake batter, pie dough, raw cutlet, cutlet. They replace other reagent and ingredients in some recipes.

4) More use for trays, knife, rolling pin, and bowls. Bowls are now a reagent container and used to make salads and soups, it's no longer some useless trash and it adds more realism to cooking. Knife and rolling pin are now used to flatten and slice dough. Trays can now be used to load grown food into the reagentgrinder machine (instead of adding items one by one or stealing a plantbag from botany).

5) The microwave now actually cooks stuff. It cooks dough into bread, meat into meatsteak, warms donkpockets, boils eggs and raw spaghetti. It can cook multiple items at a time and can be loaded using the tray. It also gets a power setting allowing for faster but riskier (chance of microwave failure) cooking. Microwave upgrade lowers that risk.

6) Slight change to the hunger system. Sugar becomes a normal reagent again. Adding a junkiness var to foods to drain mob satiety. This fixes the absurdity of being able to lose weight by drinking pure sugar.

7) Milk carton and flour pack are now condiment bottles (like salt shaker and universal enzyme bottle)to add reagents to food more easily.

8) Slight buff to vitamin effect


EDIT:
I added the follow things:
- limit of 20 items on table to be able to tablecraft (otherwise it says the table is too crowded)
- craft recipes no longer uses any raw ingredients (made all meats cookable into steaks and sliceable into their own type of raw cutlet and cutlet, created raw pastry base and pastry base ingredients, the latter replacing doughslice in recipes.
- I also made ingredients reagents transferable to the resulting dish for both food tablecrafting and custom food building.



Thoughts?
Last edited by phil235 on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby paprika » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:12 pm #66940

Rename microwave to microwave oven. Also, does boiling pasta require water? it should
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby DemonFiren » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:42 pm #66948

Captain deserves to swallow lizard secretions, Violaceus. You know he does.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:13 pm #66958

Paprika wrote:Rename microwave to microwave oven. Also, does boiling pasta require water? it should

I can rename it, yeah. I had to get rid of water requirement for boiled egg and boiled spaghetti (and boiledspiderleg), tablecraft for those two recipes would be unrealistic and we can't have the microwave check for reagents if we want to have multiple item cooking and also get rid of some of the issues mentioned in the OP. We just have to imagine that the microwave oven has a built-in water source or something (I changed the microwave desc to mention that it cooks and boils). It's one of the small recipe adjustement I had to make for the system to stay simple and consistent.

Violaceus wrote:Is tablecooking faster than old microwavecooking?
Also please consider adding "dirty" status to bowls and trays and plates, captain deserves to have a delicious soup in clean bowl, not used 30 times before by lizards and never cleaned.


Tablecraft speed can be adjusted for each specific recipe so it's all good. I got most recipes to take 3 seconds to make (sometimes 4). I didnt' really put much thought into the timing, I'm sure players feedback will decide what to change.

Not sure how to implement bowl cleaning since they act like beakers now (clicking a sink adds water to it instead of cleaning it).

Also, I must warn you, I had to resprite a couple things myself and they're not great. Someone might want to redo them in the future (cake batter, pie dough, cutlets, a few custom filling overlay icons, and pizzabread(because it doesn't match the color of pizzas so it looks weird)
Last edited by phil235 on Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby dezzmont » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:30 pm #66962

Can you see any disadvantages in your own system?

You only list advantages, and while of course we should try to find the good in a change and see if it is better than what exists, feedback is also pretty good at trimming fat and figuring out ways to remove disadvantages.

For example I can see tablecrafting causing food production to slow down somewhat, and recepies being more complicated could make simple food even more prevalant, so is there a way to cook multiple portions at once like a caterer or do you have to do things one at a time?

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:00 pm #66972

dezzmont wrote:Can you see any disadvantages in your own system?

You only list advantages, and while of course we should try to find the good in a change and see if it is better than what exists, feedback is also pretty good at trimming fat and figuring out ways to remove disadvantages.

For example I can see tablecrafting causing food production to slow down somewhat, and recepies being more complicated could make simple food even more prevalant, so is there a way to cook multiple portions at once like a caterer or do you have to do things one at a time?


Production speed is definitely difficult to balance but I think the addition of microwaving multiple items at once, faster loading of microwave and grinder with the tray, and having custom food being just slapping items make the production speed on par with the old system.
In any case we can adjust two things to change that speed: the tablecrafting time(specific to each recipe) and the microwaving time.
Also, I think the new system is more adapted to a kitchen with two cooks. They won't fight for using the microwave as often and will be able to each use their own table. Plus any sort of miscommunication resulting in adding something to the microwave that the other cook is currently using has no bad consequence.
Tablecraft can also be pretty fast if you pile up all your ingredients, you cook multiple stuff one after the other w/o having to move or do anything(like filling the microwave with new ingredients after one recipe is finished).

About more complicated recipes making simple snacks for prevalent, I'd say the recipes aren't more complicated, the new ingredients consistently replace existing things in recipes (e.g. recipes who used 5 flour + 1 egg now all use 1 doughslice instead) and the steps in food preparation are more intuitive. For example, rolling pin on dough to get flatdough then microwave it to get pizzabread then use it with ingredients to make a pizza, instead of "10flour+stuff=pizza(if you don't mess up the ingredient amounts!)". I'd argue that the complexity of recipes has gone down because the steps required are somewhat realistic and exact knowledge of a recipe is no longer required(you pile stuff on table and see if it clicks).

As for disadvantages more generally, the only thing I can think of right now is the fact that some of the new ingredients have few specific use compared to other food items ( dough can only be used to make cake batter or flat dough or microwaveed into bread. Most dough items rarely if ever appear in tablecraft recipes and most are too big to be used in custom food).

Also, there's the balancing of nutrient and vitamin amounts in foods that may need some tweaking (need players feedback for that).

Another possible issue could be that the change is pushing players to pile their ingredients on one table,on the same tile, which could lead to lag or crash for people rightclicking the tile.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:42 pm #66993

I'm interested to hear how much this has been tested on a local server. The issue (probably still unresolved) with other tablecrafting setups is that the ingredient usage was not always what was listed in the log or code. For example, you had to have a surplus of shot shell parts on the same table square to trigger the menu into for a certain type of science shot shell, and then the crafting itself would consume a portion of those "extra" parts in the creation. Now that you're adding multiple possible outcomes and item consumption points to your use of tablecrafting, I wonder if there won't be a similar or worse bug.

For example, does the current itteration ONLY consume those ingredients in a stack that it should or does it just eat the whole stack without concern? This could be a major concern for new players expecting to be able to mass create food objects by loading up the table and instead feeding a whole stack of food into a single product.

(God that was rambling. I'll take another pass at it later if I wasn't clear. Posting right from waking up is hard)

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby DemonFiren » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:48 pm #67039

Violaceus wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:Captain deserves to swallow lizard secretions, Violaceus. You know he does.

Seriously, you are killing my love for snakes. You furries ruin everything.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:57 pm #67047

cedarbridge wrote:I'm interested to hear how much this has been tested on a local server. The issue (probably still unresolved) with other tablecrafting setups is that the ingredient usage was not always what was listed in the log or code. For example, you had to have a surplus of shot shell parts on the same table square to trigger the menu into for a certain type of science shot shell, and then the crafting itself would consume a portion of those "extra" parts in the creation. Now that you're adding multiple possible outcomes and item consumption points to your use of tablecrafting, I wonder if there won't be a similar or worse bug.

For example, does the current itteration ONLY consume those ingredients in a stack that it should or does it just eat the whole stack without concern? This could be a major concern for new players expecting to be able to mass create food objects by loading up the table and instead feeding a whole stack of food into a single product.


I tested it locally fairly thoroughly. The tablecraft recipes work and only consume the ingredients they need. I just tested crafting science shells and couldn't reproduce the bug you're describing.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby lumipharon » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:10 pm #67051

I like the idea of this PR, that said I see a few issues/points.

1: As far as I can see, you can just pile every ingredient/reagent/tool on one table and just poop out all the food from your pile of stuff.
2: The big advantage of microwaves is upgrading it and making triple food. With high pop, it doesn't matter if you have good botanists/a 2nd chef, it is HARD to shit out enough food to keep 50-80 people well fed, without upgraded microwaves. Then it becomes laughable easy, but still.

Going on from 2, in terms of your PR, can you only 'create' one dish at a time, or can you churn out as much food as you want from your food pile table?

3: A fair few things DO make sense to microwave, or put in an oven or something. It would seem pretty silly to toast a sandwich with sheer willpower and a table, for example. You said the microwave cooks things, but just briefly looking at the code specificly looking for toasted sandwiches I didn't see that, but eh.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby lumipharon » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:38 pm #67060

Well working in a real kitchen, everything is neatly stored and labelled so things can be made quickly and efficiently. Of course spacemen can only have one pile of junk per giant one meter square tables, so you can't really do realism there, unless you wanted some sort of 'larder' item that you store things in, like the smart fridge.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby lumipharon » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:44 pm #67063

I know, I'm saying in real life you can have lots of piles/containers/boards of shit within hands reach, where as in ss13 you would need 50 tiles worth of tables to neatly store everything seperately, which is SOMEWHAT impractical.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:46 pm #67064

lumipharon wrote:I like the idea of this PR, that said I see a few issues/points.

1: As far as I can see, you can just pile every ingredient/reagent/tool on one table and just poop out all the food from your pile of stuff.
2: The big advantage of microwaves is upgrading it and making triple food. With high pop, it doesn't matter if you have good botanists/a 2nd chef, it is HARD to shit out enough food to keep 50-80 people well fed, without upgraded microwaves. Then it becomes laughable easy, but still.

Going on from 2, in terms of your PR, can you only 'create' one dish at a time, or can you churn out as much food as you want from your food pile table?

3: A fair few things DO make sense to microwave, or put in an oven or something. It would seem pretty silly to toast a sandwich with sheer willpower and a table, for example. You said the microwave cooks things, but just briefly looking at the code specificly looking for toasted sandwiches I didn't see that, but eh.



1: Yeah, it's both a strength and a weakness of this PR, you need some form of piling to make tablecraft useful and fast enough. A solution could be to add a check in tablecrafting which counts how many items are on the table and prevents crafting if there's too many (because the table is too crowded).

2: If chefs have trouble keeping 50+ people fed, I might readd the food multiplication effect of the microwave upgrade to help.

Even if you make a giant pile of ingredients, you still prepare dishes one at a time. You click the recipe in the tablecraft window then wait the (recipe specific) amount of time needed (3 seconds for most recipes) during which the window is updated to only show "crafting in progress" (so no spamclick crafting), after the recipe is made the window updates again and you can click a new recipe and the cycle continues.

3: Yeah, it was one of the big hurdle for this overhaul, I managed to avoid most obvious cases of "cooking food through sheer willpower".Cake recipes use vanilla cake as an ingredient instead of raw eggs and flour. But there are still quite a few exceptions to common sense: 'raw' meat to make most burgers, doughslice to make baguette,cracker or muffin. I could fix most of those (slicing pie dough to make a new small dough item that gives a small bread thingy when cooked that replace doughslice, and replacing raw meat by meatsteak or cooked cutlet (which would require making all meat types subtypes of snack/meat and make cutlet subtypes for each species, etc...)) but I think my PR is already big enough for now.

Sandwich recipes all use breadslices and meatsteaks, the toasted sandwich is done by microwaving a regular sandwich.


EDIT:
I implemented the things proposed here:
- limit of 20 items on table to be able to tablecraft (otherwise it sasy the table is too crowded)
- craft recipes no longer uses any raw ingredients (made all meats cookable into steaks and sliceable into their own type of raw cutlet and cutlet(once cooked), created raw pastry base and pastry base ingredients, the latter replacing doughslice in recipes
- I also made ingredients reagents transferable to the resulting dish even with food tablecrafting.
Last edited by phil235 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:28 pm #67074

Eliminating toxic reagents is a real shame some recipes are flat out made of poisonous crops.

Like you can make a mushroom pizza with all destroying angels.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:44 pm #67081

Incomptinence wrote:Eliminating toxic reagents is a real shame some recipes are flat out made of poisonous crops.

Like you can make a mushroom pizza with all destroying angels.


It's a limitation from tablecrafting unfortunately, but you can still make a destroying angel pizza with mushroom reagents, a custom one.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby lumipharon » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:19 am #67091

Wait, that's pretty gay then. Why does tablecrafting stop you from doing that?

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby Razharas » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:35 am #67097

I can help with ideas about how to implement things for tablecrafting if its even compatible on the idea level

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:22 am #67142

Violaceus wrote:I rather meant keeping separate small piles on different table tiles.

Spessman tables are actually pretty enormous.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby oranges » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:20 am #67199

Table crafting letting you bulk make recipes as a bonus to collecting lots of ingredients in once place would be absolutely fantastic. I.e if you have enough recipe ingredients to make 3 of say potato soup the table craft ui should let you pick how many to make. The time should be more than one would take to make, but less than it would take to make 3 individually (i.e some kind of stacking bonus - something that decreases exponentially as N increases, so it's not to OP) This would somewhat counter the loss of the upgraded microwave as you can now pump out more food with some organisation.

Also it would be fun to extend that to some other crafting stuff.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:06 am #67210

oranges wrote:Table crafting letting you bulk make recipes as a bonus to collecting lots of ingredients in once place would be absolutely fantastic. I.e if you have enough recipe ingredients to make 3 of say potato soup the table craft ui should let you pick how many to make. The time should be more than one would take to make, but less than it would take to make 3 individually (i.e some kind of stacking bonus - something that decreases exponentially as N increases, so it's not to OP) This would somewhat counter the loss of the upgraded microwave as you can now pump out more food with some organisation.

Also it would be fun to extend that to some other crafting stuff.

I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to limit it to a special kind of table instead of just "any table." Otherwise you'd just have botany replace the chef almost entirely and it would kinda undo a lot of the role value that they had just recently got back with the food update.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby lumipharon » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:40 am #67212

Kitchen bench. Orange doees make a good point though. Mass producing 10 of the same dish isn't that much slower then making one, IRL.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:01 pm #67247

oranges wrote:Table crafting letting you bulk make recipes as a bonus to collecting lots of ingredients in once place would be absolutely fantastic. I.e if you have enough recipe ingredients to make 3 of say potato soup the table craft ui should let you pick how many to make. The time should be more than one would take to make, but less than it would take to make 3 individually (i.e some kind of stacking bonus - something that decreases exponentially as N increases, so it's not to OP) This would somewhat counter the loss of the upgraded microwave as you can now pump out more food with some organisation.


While I'm sure it could be doable codewise I don't think it's a good idea, it incentivizes people to make one giant pile of ingredients. It's not realistic and would push chefs to empty the smartfridge of all growns entirely to put them in the pile (because there's no reason not to). I've implemented the ingredient limit (can't tablecraft if there's more than 20 items on the table) to avoid that. In the same vein, the microwave has a limit and can't cook more than 10 items simultaneously. I don't think bulk tablecrafting is even that useful, if you stack all items needed to make a couple of burgers then tablecrafting them isn't going to take long because you don't have to readjust or move your mouse between two crafting (the recipe button shouldn't move at all in the crafting window) so crafting in batches is actually quite fast. And about the old microwave upgrade, I can still readd it if people can't keep up w/o it.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby paprika » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:29 pm #67253

dude making one pile of ingredients and mass producing single meals instead of 20 different types of meals is incredibly realistic actually
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:30 pm #67255

phil235 wrote:
oranges wrote:Table crafting letting you bulk make recipes as a bonus to collecting lots of ingredients in once place would be absolutely fantastic. I.e if you have enough recipe ingredients to make 3 of say potato soup the table craft ui should let you pick how many to make. The time should be more than one would take to make, but less than it would take to make 3 individually (i.e some kind of stacking bonus - something that decreases exponentially as N increases, so it's not to OP) This would somewhat counter the loss of the upgraded microwave as you can now pump out more food with some organisation.


While I'm sure it could be doable codewise I don't think it's a good idea, it incentivizes people to make one giant pile of ingredients. It's not realistic and would push chefs to empty the smartfridge of all growns entirely to put them in the pile (because there's no reason not to). I've implemented the ingredient limit (can't tablecraft if there's more than 20 items on the table) to avoid that. In the same vein, the microwave has a limit and can't cook more than 10 items simultaneously. I don't think bulk tablecrafting is even that useful, if you stack all items needed to make a couple of burgers then tablecrafting then isn't going to take long because you don't have to readjust or move your mouse between two crafting (the recipe button shouldn't move at all in the crafting window) so crafting in batches is actually quite fast. And about the old microwave upgrade, I can still readd it if people can't keep up w/o it.

The logical incentive to not just dump everything possible onto the table is ingredient conservation. You keep out the things you don't want to be included in a current creation to reserve them for other things.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:21 pm #67264

cedarbridge wrote:I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to limit it to a special kind of table instead of just "any table." Otherwise you'd just have botany replace the chef almost entirely and it would kinda undo a lot of the role value that they had just recently got back with the food update.

No, the botanist won't be able to tablecraft much food if any, he lacks a microwave, a rolling pin and a kitchen knife. That means all the botanists can produce is dough(eggy plant and grinded wheat) which can't be tablecrafted as is, chocolatebar and growns. So afaik they can't cook any food at all (except maybe chocolate egg and choco orange).

cedarbridge wrote:The logical incentive to not just dump everything possible onto the table is ingredient conservation. You keep out the things you don't want to be included in a current creation to reserve them for other things.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that tablecraft only work if there's no superfluous item on the table, or having the crafting eat all items on the table even if they're not part of the recipe, or something else?
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby Bombadil » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:33 pm #67416

So you can't make toxic bodies loaded with chloral and kill people with the toxic meat?
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:15 am #67436

Bombadil wrote:So you can't make toxic bodies loaded with chloral and kill people with the toxic meat?


I updated the OP, tablecrafting food now transfer the reagents from the ingredient to the resulting food. So now you can add the chloral at pretty much any step of the food creation. Either directly injecting it into a human before gibbing him then harvest his meat and make food out of it, or injecting it in the meat slabs or pretty much any type of ingredient (with a syringe or a condiment bottle), or inject it in the finished dish. The choice is yours.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby lumipharon » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:30 am #67438

Wooo. I don't knw when this was removed, but it was a seriously gay change.
This makes food much stronger, due to reagents of high potency food, so even without triple microwave magic, this should be fairly good.
+1

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:59 am #67453

Violaceus wrote:What happens if you have a pile of ingredients and only one is poisoned? When is it going to be used?

As far as I can tell, ingredients are used by order of placement. The ingredient that was placed first on the table is used first then the next one.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 am #67456

phil235 wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:The logical incentive to not just dump everything possible onto the table is ingredient conservation. You keep out the things you don't want to be included in a current creation to reserve them for other things.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that tablecraft only work if there's no superfluous item on the table, or having the crafting eat all items on the table even if they're not part of the recipe, or something else?

I remember reading something on this update involving potency applying to certain foods and not to others. If this is the case, I wouldn't just toss all my growns onto the table and hope the RNG didn't consume my high potency growns on things that didn't require potency and vice versa. Its not really a coding question but more a player behavior with expected rewards question.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby Wyzack » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:41 am #67463

What about a recipie like enchiladas? Do we just slap together meat, 2 chillis and corn on a table and it magically cooks itself?
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby allura » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:25 am #67467

tablecrafting is incredibly clunky and not fun at all. this pr is a major no in every aspect it could ever be. absolutely repugnant.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:24 am #67546

allura wrote:tablecrafting is incredibly clunky and not fun at all. this pr is a major no in every aspect it could ever be. absolutely repugnant.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:34 am #67555

cedarbridge wrote:I remember reading something on this update involving potency applying to certain foods and not to others. If this is the case, I wouldn't just toss all my growns onto the table and hope the RNG didn't consume my high potency growns on things that didn't require potency and vice versa. Its not really a coding question but more a player behavior with expected rewards question.


Yeah, I changed that. Now both tablecrafted and custom food keep their ingredients reagents.

What about a recipie like enchiladas? Do we just slap together meat, 2 chillis and corn on a table and it magically cooks itself?

I changed the recipe to use cooked meat cutlets instead of raw meat, so now it's less unrealistic. The growns still are used raw but I think it's less problematic than meat or flour, and I think adding yet more steps by needing to microwave corn to get tortilla (an item which would only be used in a single recipe) would be too much. But if a raw ingredient in some recipe really bothers people I can always make that the ingredient need cooking first.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:36 am #67556

Running corn through the food processor for tortilla, then allowing you to make wraps from that...wait, does it work like that?
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:10 pm #67560

DemonFiren wrote:Running corn through the food processor for tortilla, then allowing you to make wraps from that...wait, does it work like that?

Sadly, the only thing our processor actually does is process meat into :faggot: . Goon Cooking is a lot more focused on processor use and so on.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:56 pm #67574

I thought it also lets you make fries?
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:30 pm #67584

DemonFiren wrote:I thought it also lets you make fries?

Yes, but we don't have an emote for that.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby Wyzack » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:28 pm #67621

I personally find this objectionable, just because there are now going to be a massive number of instances where ingredients are put in raw and coming out cooked just by arranging shit on a table. To me this is far more immersion breaking than a spess microwave that processes all steps of food preparation, just because at least there the stuff is actually cooked. Just my two cents. Making a ton of steps for each of the recipes we now have is a ton of coding work, and would eventually mean that chefs have a lot more work to do to feed large crews. I think it would be cool if we could increase output somehow, like making one enchiladas recipe gives 4 servings of enchiladas, but you need to cook the ingredients, make toritillas, ect.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby phil235 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:58 pm #67638

Wyzack wrote:I personally find this objectionable, just because there are now going to be a massive number of instances where ingredients are put in raw and coming out cooked just by arranging shit on a table. To me this is far more immersion breaking than a spess microwave that processes all steps of food preparation, just because at least there the stuff is actually cooked. Just my two cents. Making a ton of steps for each of the recipes we now have is a ton of coding work, and would eventually mean that chefs have a lot more work to do to feed large crews. I think it would be cool if we could increase output somehow, like making one enchiladas recipe gives 4 servings of enchiladas, but you need to cook the ingredients, make tortillas, ect.


The only raw ingredients used for cooking are the vegetables, I don't think people will generally find it immersion breaking to put raw (but prepared by the chef) vegetables into soups, salad and pies.

The chefs do have compratively more work to do but unlike the old system it can be done in batches. Grab a tray, open the meat freezer, put all the meat slabs on it in one click, click the microwave to load all of them in the microwave, turn it on, result:5 meatsteaks, load on tray in one click, click table to unload them on it. (And if that's not fast enough we can always readd the microwave multiplication upgrade to speed things up)

Also remember that with tablecrafting, you don't have to manually insert each reagents with multiple clicks on the microwave, you just put your beaker or condiment bottle on the table and start crafting.

Actually, I'll time myself making recipes with both old and new system and post the results.

Edit:
Cooking enchiladas with the old system(with all necessary grown already inside the fridge and meat in the freezer):
35 seconds to make 2 enchiladas (using both unupgraded microwaves) then roughly 25 seconds for the next round of 2 enchiladas. That's 4 per minute (and 12 when upgraded)

With the new system, using the safest (and slowest) microwave power setting, and counting fetching the tray and knife from the vendmachine :
35-40 seconds to make 1 enchiladas, then 5 seconds for the next 2 (because I fetched enough ingredients for three). Repeat. That's 3.8 per minute (and probably 4.6 when upgraded).
Last edited by phil235 on Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby oranges » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:12 am #67891

The speed of creating new foods will improve every time you increase the number of units of ingredients as well. I think raising the ingredient limits to support a level slightly higher than the current would be good.

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Re: Cooking Overhaul (PR #7572) feedback

Postby Incomptinence » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:41 pm #67926

I simply do not understand how people think that cooking needs to follow STRICT recipes to prepare food.

Not everything is a cake (and even then there is a dazzling variety of cakes) how do you make something into a stew or broth? BOIL IT.

You can put almost anything in an oven and as long as it doesn't crisp and burn someone can eat it. Someone may not want to in actual life but we don't simulate a sense of taste.

Although that might be a good idea so we don't have absolute morons challenging the realism of chopping up vegetables or putting perfectly normal edible produce into boiling water.

Goofball cooking was more realistic than the recipe system and it had gummi bears the size of people. A perfectly possible thing considering the record holding gummi candy was half a metric ton but no buzzwords were spouted by ignorant sachet fed lard asses who couldn't imagine anything bigger than the tine candies that they buy in plastic bags to shovel down their throat so fast a similar mass probably forms in their gullet.

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