Armour Nerfs

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Cheimon » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:18 pm #97708

Remie Richards wrote:Just going to shill my PR that caps armour reduction at 90% because of a shocking discovery.
Cloaks, worn on the back slot (ffs xhuis they work better on the exosuit slot like labcoats) actually have armour, for the HoS CE and Cap, this is 10% Melee resistance.

Not to mention if the HoS's armour was at it's usual 65% (Pre Kor-Nerf), if they were to then where their cloak they'd be at 75% damage resistance at ROUNDSTART.


Yeah, but what kind of HOS wants to wear a cloak at roundstart? Backpacks/satchels are unbelievably useful and important to the job. A HOS needs to be able to store weapons, medical supplies, evidence, confiscated items, and other bits and bobs (like handcuffs or a shield). Those are simply more useful than 10% melee resistance, especially if you know you're going into combat (extra weapons are better than extra armour).



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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Remie Richards » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:23 pm #97711

Cheimon wrote:
Remie Richards wrote:Just going to shill my PR that caps armour reduction at 90% because of a shocking discovery.
Cloaks, worn on the back slot (ffs xhuis they work better on the exosuit slot like labcoats) actually have armour, for the HoS CE and Cap, this is 10% Melee resistance.

Not to mention if the HoS's armour was at it's usual 65% (Pre Kor-Nerf), if they were to then where their cloak they'd be at 75% damage resistance at ROUNDSTART.


Yeah, but what kind of HOS wants to wear a cloak at roundstart? Backpacks/satchels are unbelievably useful and important to the job. A HOS needs to be able to store weapons, medical supplies, evidence, confiscated items, and other bits and bobs (like handcuffs or a shield). Those are simply more useful than 10% melee resistance, especially if you know you're going into combat (extra weapons are better than extra armour).


If the HoS was played by a powergamer (which they oh so frequently are), the opportunity to obtain Invincibility is something they would not turn down, who cares if you've lost a hand to hold your backpack or you're not even using a backpack, you're invincible, you can't just be beaten to death anymore, they become a god of melee, the literal personification of harmbatoning.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:39 pm #97727

Until someone shoots them. Or bombs them. Or stuns and strips them.

Any form of damage immunity isn't good, but if you're giving up your backslot to do it, then good luck to you.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Cheimon » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:59 pm #97747

Remie Richards wrote:
Cheimon wrote:
Remie Richards wrote:Just going to shill my PR that caps armour reduction at 90% because of a shocking discovery.
Cloaks, worn on the back slot (ffs xhuis they work better on the exosuit slot like labcoats) actually have armour, for the HoS CE and Cap, this is 10% Melee resistance.

Not to mention if the HoS's armour was at it's usual 65% (Pre Kor-Nerf), if they were to then where their cloak they'd be at 75% damage resistance at ROUNDSTART.


Yeah, but what kind of HOS wants to wear a cloak at roundstart? Backpacks/satchels are unbelievably useful and important to the job. A HOS needs to be able to store weapons, medical supplies, evidence, confiscated items, and other bits and bobs (like handcuffs or a shield). Those are simply more useful than 10% melee resistance, especially if you know you're going into combat (extra weapons are better than extra armour).


If the HoS was played by a powergamer (which they oh so frequently are), the opportunity to obtain Invincibility is something they would not turn down, who cares if you've lost a hand to hold your backpack or you're not even using a backpack, you're invincible, you can't just be beaten to death anymore, they become a god of melee, the literal personification of harmbatoning.


But you weren't talking about invincibility, just 75% damage resist over 65%. Invincibility is different, I agree.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:10 am #97753

It was already 75% because of the jumpsuit. It'd have been 85% with the cloak. That's just silly.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:14 am #97755

Toss in augged limbs for 95%.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:19 am #97756

augged limbs are flat reduction AFTER armor is taken into account.

Basically heavy armor (hos/riot) + augs make you immune to almost all damage. riot + augs makes you immune to even e-swords (e-axes will still work). HoS + augs makes e-swords do like, 3 damage.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Cheimon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:21 am #97777

Which means to kill the HOS, you suddenly need to knock him down, crack the nut that is his armour open, and then go to town. Is that such a bad thing? Or you can simply use a non-melee weapon, like a laser, shotgun, disease, hull breach, bomb, or all sorts of other possibilities.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:29 am #97781

Cheimon wrote:Which means to kill the HOS, you suddenly need to knock him down, crack the nut that is his armour open, and then go to town. Is that such a bad thing? Or you can simply use a non-melee weapon, like a laser, shotgun, disease, hull breach, bomb, or all sorts of other possibilities.


Yes thats a bad thing. It means melee weapons arent viable unless you have a stun, which people seem to want to move away from.

If stuns can down him in one hit, and bombs and bullets can also make short work of him, whats so bad about eswords and cult blades and fireaxes being viable weapons themselves instead of something you combo with a stunprod?

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Falamazeer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:44 am #97788

Honestly I put four rounds into an ERT medical doctor, and it did fuck all, he didn't even dodge, just casually returned fire with a laser.
A 357 magnum is serious shit, nerf might not be enough.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:00 am #97798

ERT bullet resist hasn't hasn't changed (50%). Unless the jumpsuits they have have bullet resist (10% atleast) 4 shots crit.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:22 am #97805

I didn't want to touch bullet resist because of revolvers. Are you sure you didnt hit s limb? They cap at 75 damage snd then magically nullify hits against them after that

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Falamazeer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:36 am #97834

Yeah, they all hit leg due to me having been healing seconds before the opportunity struck, I tried to change it but I misclicked and wound up unloading into his left leg.
Really though, Half off to 60% if the jumpsuit gives that still' It's all a bit much, At that point it should have sawed his leg off, so I'm in full support of any armor nerf deemed necessary. Nobody should feel that safe short of a mech.

Also, why would damage cap off? that's silly
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:17 am #97882

So why this sudden desire to make the HoS a very weak person to deal with?

Firstly any good HoS would never wear a cloak, you have to carry so much equipment that wearing a cloak means you've suddenly lost out on 80% of your equipment.

Secondly in the entire several years I've played as a HoS I've never been killed by just being worn down with weapon fire while standing, I've ALWAYS been stunned in some fashion and then killed/stripped naked then killed. What armour provides is allowing you to survive these ranged attacks.

If a antag knows what they doing then no amount of armour protection will save you, a simple stun and cuff will kill anyone even if they have 100% armour protection. Fortunately a lot of people don't always know to do this.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Incomptinence » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:54 am #97887

So anyone think anything of my idea for armour to convert absorbed damage into a percentage of stamina damage?

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Falamazeer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:00 am #97893

Incomptinence wrote:So anyone think anything of my idea for armour to convert absorbed damage into a percentage of stamina damage?

I missed that, this does need attention.
It's a good idea, How feasible is it code-wise?
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Remie Richards » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:04 am #97895

Falamazeer wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:So anyone think anything of my idea for armour to convert absorbed damage into a percentage of stamina damage?

I missed that, this does need attention.
It's a good idea, How feasible is it code-wise?


It can be done in one line.
I'm tired and just woke up so this line of code won't be named right but it'll be syntactically correct.

AdjustStamina(-somefancyformula(armor))

done.
the formula can be something like:
armor/*0.1
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Cheimon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:38 pm #97940

Falamazeer wrote:Honestly I put four rounds into an ERT medical doctor, and it did fuck all, he didn't even dodge, just casually returned fire with a laser.
A 357 magnum is serious shit, nerf might not be enough.


Yeah, I had a look at that, all four bullets hit my left leg. Can't crit someone if they all hit a limb because of the damage cap. Separate issue to armour.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Oldman Robustin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:42 pm #97950

I'm fine with sec getting softened up, but HoS armor NEEDS to stay very robust. HoS should be a force to reckon with, someone who can strike fear into an a tags heart. Not just a sec officer with edgier clothing.

One of the few things that allows me to step into the giant shitshow that is the HoS role is the comfort of knowing that some of the cheesiest combat tactics like maintain slip+esword and revolver ambush can fail against the HoS armor.

It makes up for it being one of the most stressful and unthanked jobs on the station. HoS NEEDS to be played by robust players but this change ensures smart players will play a lower level sec role. If I'm going to walk around with cardboard for armor, I'd rather play an officer who is less likely to be targeted and unburdened by all the stupid crap the HoS has to deal with.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:02 pm #98032

It's hilarious that RD armor is now the best armor in the game, since it has a 50% block chance, the net effect being you'll take less damage then even the specialty armors (on average)

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:16 am #98187

Oldman Robustin wrote:I'm fine with sec getting softened up, but HoS armor NEEDS to stay very robust. HoS should be a force to reckon with, someone who can strike fear into an a tags heart. Not just a sec officer with edgier clothing.

One of the few things that allows me to step into the giant shitshow that is the HoS role is the comfort of knowing that some of the cheesiest combat tactics like maintain slip+esword and revolver ambush can fail against the HoS armor.

It makes up for it being one of the most stressful and unthanked jobs on the station. HoS NEEDS to be played by robust players but this change ensures smart players will play a lower level sec role. If I'm going to walk around with cardboard for armor, I'd rather play an officer who is less likely to be targeted and unburdened by all the stupid crap the HoS has to deal with.


HoS revolver resistance was not touched.

If a guy is touching you with an esword after stunning you he could have easily stunprodded and cablecuffed you as well.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:18 am #98188

Yes but at least stripping someone takes a bit more effort, considering how most armour has a strip delay. Yet now why bother with that when its now far easier to just sword them to death.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby MisterPerson » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:07 am #98207

Steelpoint wrote:Yes but at least stripping someone takes a bit more effort, considering how most armour has a strip delay. Yet now why bother with that when its now far easier to just sword them to death.


That's for the best imo because of how shitty and slow the stripping interface is.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Ikarrus » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:00 pm #98262

Did someone say bringing back the risk to using the teleport armor?

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10112
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:14 pm #98284

MisterPerson wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Yes but at least stripping someone takes a bit more effort, considering how most armour has a strip delay. Yet now why bother with that when its now far easier to just sword them to death.


That's for the best imo because of how shitty and slow the stripping interface is.


I think it's also just weird that battery on a stick+undressing the guy is more effective than stabbing him in the face with a lightsaber.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:18 pm #98286

Your not stabbing them in the face, your stabbing them in the helmet. Stabbing people in the face is extreamly lethal but that helmet is (or at least used to be very) effective in blocking those hits.

The fact that a make shift stun rod is a more effective killing tool than military grade weapons is a symptom of our combat system favouring stuns over raw killing power, its why few people use the M90 Assault Rifle over the C20r SMG.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Ikarrus » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:27 pm #98287

Most helmets just cover parts of the head and not the face but the game doesn't make those distinctions unfortunately.

Helmets are useful but they shouldn't magically make your head invincible for the most part.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:37 pm #98289

It never made you invincible, it simply made it harder to kill a Security Officer. Contrary to popular belief armour and helmets are usually seen in use by the sole five Security Officers on the station, assuming there are five to begin with.

But I digress, the fact of the matter is the vast majority of esword deaths that I have seen are not from someone attacking a person while they are standing and running, but when they are stunned from another stunning weapons. What armour did was give the victim the chance to recover from their stun or call out for help, as well as discourage blind attacks on sec because your unlikely to do anything before getting stunned yourself, thus encouraging you to stun them first.

Honestly I think the only change that needs to be reversed at this time is the HoS armour changes, the HoS armour changes were too overzealous and at this junction the armour values for the HoS are almost identical to normal armour, this coupled with the weapon nerfs from months prior means the only advantage at this time in playing the HoS is the extra access and authority, with the disadvantages being innumerable but including being a very visible target and the massive amount of stress and work the HoS role entails that no other Sec role has to endure and with no actual job perks to enjoy such as having powerful armour that made you very hard to kill outright this really deincentivise people in playing the HoS role aside from it being a command position.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:49 pm #98292

Steelpoint wrote: and the massive amount of stress and work the HoS role entails that no other Sec role has to endure and with no actual job perks to enjoy such as having powerful armour that made you very hard to kill outright this really deincentivise people in playing the HoS role aside from it being a command position.


I'd rather them get stronger weapons back. I think the game plays better when everyone is a glass cannon.

A flash will auto-win you any fight vs someone without sunglasses though.

Also HoS is my most played role after secborg, and armor used to not exist at all (everything was a stun, no strip delay, etc). He's still worth playing even without the coat because he starts with a pile of guns and high access.

Steelpoint wrote:
The fact that a make shift stun rod is a more effective killing tool than military grade weapons is a symptom of our combat system favouring stuns over raw killing power


Which is what I'm trying to correct, by making raw killing power a more viable option.


I wouldn't mind buffing the HoS armor back upwards some though, he is the boss after all. 40% melee on your entire body really isn't that bad though.

Maybe replace some of that lost melee resist with better bullet resist or something, or a personal shield generator that shuts down after X hits. Something other than constant full body 75% melee resist roundstart.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby AdenAbrafo » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:07 pm #98296

Steelpoint wrote:It never made you invincible, it simply made it harder to kill a Security Officer. Contrary to popular belief armour and helmets are usually seen in use by the sole five Security Officers on the station, assuming there are five to begin with.

But I digress, the fact of the matter is the vast majority of esword deaths that I have seen are not from someone attacking a person while they are standing and running, but when they are stunned from another stunning weapons. What armour did was give the victim the chance to recover from their stun or call out for help, as well as discourage blind attacks on sec because your unlikely to do anything before getting stunned yourself, thus encouraging you to stun them first.

Honestly I think the only change that needs to be reversed at this time is the HoS armour changes, the HoS armour changes were too overzealous and at this junction the armour values for the HoS are almost identical to normal armour, this coupled with the weapon nerfs from months prior means the only advantage at this time in playing the HoS is the extra access and authority, with the disadvantages being innumerable but including being a very visible target and the massive amount of stress and work the HoS role entails that no other Sec role has to endure and with no actual job perks to enjoy such as having powerful armour that made you very hard to kill outright this really deincentivise people in playing the HoS role aside from it being a command position.

It didn't just make you harder to kill, it made it so you could stand up while being stabbed with an esword and live even if you were stunned beforehand as you acknowledge in your second post.
The HoS coat is still better than regular armor. Before the nerf the HoS was a juggernaut that could get stunned two-three times, be stabbed with an esword each time he was down and still get up to stun his attacker. The HoS shouldn't be wandering around alone in places where it's likely he can get killed, isn't that the type of mentality the server is trying to move away from? People shouldn't be taking HoS for equipment either. What do you mean by no job perks? He gets loads of unique gear, lots of access, authority over security and is usually the Captain's right hand man. Why do you play HoS aside from the fact that it's a command position? Isn't that the whole reason people should be playing it?
This change helps move the server towards the mentality that people have been preaching forever. Which is less stun-based combat and more interaction with other players.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:20 pm #98305

AdenAbrafo wrote:This change helps move the server towards the mentality that people have been preaching forever.


I'm sure I've said this elsewhere but I admit it's very frustrating when people have constantly been saying how they want to move away from stuns and the reaction to this armor nerf is "just use a stun to counter the armor instead."

Also the overwhelming result of that poll being "yes more lethality, traitors aren't able to get anything done" yet the other reaction to this being "people will die too easily if you nerf armor, traitors will kill sec too easily"

And so forth.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby CPTANT » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:36 pm #98307

how about you just let the esword do 30 holo damage, that way everyone is down in 4 hits.

Problem solved lets bring armour back
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:53 pm #98313

CPTANT wrote:how about you just let the esword do 30 holo damage, that way everyone is down in 4 hits.

Problem solved lets bring armour back


I'd rather fix the system than make exceptions for single weapons. The e-sword was just an example.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:54 pm #98314

CPTANT wrote:how about you just let the esword do 30 holo damage, that way everyone is down in 4 hits.

Problem solved lets bring armour back


I'd rather fix the system than make exceptions for single weapons. The e-sword was just an example.

Also armor hasn't gone anywhere, the HoS still has 40% damage reduction against melee. He still blocks almost half of every hit. There's nothing to "bring back"

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:10 am #98426

The reason some people are against this armour change is simply because it does little to address the game's combat system, it only serves to nerf's security's survivability while doing absolutely nothing else for the 90% of other engagements with the crew and whatnot.

People want more lethality and danger but simply just deciding to use that as a excuse to make security, and only security for the most part, weaker without any other actual changes to the game's systems is what sits wrongly.

Personally my biggest concern here is that this issue will slip away and we'll be using these armour values for months as nothing else is changed. Unless we see actual changes to the game's combat system then this does nothing to fix that.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby AdenAbrafo » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:29 pm #98518

If the coders want to address the bigger problem then they're going to have to either overhaul combat entirely or make some big changes to blunt stuns and headset usage. This helps move it towards that though, Rome wasn't built in a day.
I haven't even noticed a difference gameplay wise to be honest.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:26 pm #98552

AdenAbrafo wrote:I haven't even noticed a difference gameplay wise to be honest.


I suspected this would be the case honestly

Steelpoint wrote:People want more lethality and danger but simply just deciding to use that as a excuse to make security, and only security for the most part, . Unless we see actual changes to the game's combat system then this does nothing to fix that.


I'm not going to change the entire game in one PR. AI has been nerfed as well.

Security is the easiest place to start because they're directly responsible for shutting down antagonists, and keeping the station under control. Security needs to lose on a regular basis, or only barely win, for the station to be chaotic and entertaining. We've coded a very efficient surveillance/police state, which is well designed and all, but not every fun to play in. SS13 needs to be poorly designed with huge oversights and gaps so that things will fall apart. We're not trying to design an actual police force here. We don't want things to go right.

>overhaul the combat system

Again not gonna happen in one PR, but can you imagine if we removed stuns first and touched armor second? There'd be a period of time of guys with 60-75% melee resist running around and no way to effectively attack them.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Falamazeer » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:13 pm #98565

Well... Are you accounting for the fact that most violence against security is NOT from an antag?
It was more true when greytide was in full swing, but it holds true today still.

But yeah, It doesn't seem to change a gotdamn thing, Armor is still robust as shit, And for that matter non stun weapons still suck ass, I got Uzi'd an unnatural amount of times before I dropped, I slapped on a brute pack while I was being shot, which extended it further, but still, I soaked a lot of bullets and didn't even drop until crit.

Seriously, without a drop chance, or being ready and able to unload every bullet you own, there isn't a point in using a gun when taser cablecuff extinguisher works better nine times out of ten.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Boredone » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:54 pm #98581

The low damage thing can be blamed on a recent armor change accidentally using max instead of min, so alot of things likely had 90% defense.
At the time of this post, server actually hasn't been updated with the fix.
Note: The change intended to cap armor reduction at 90%.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:30 pm #98614

things that ned to be nerfed for sec is shit like helmetcams, which make it a nany state, making it very hard to kill officers unseen.
Basic survivibility is something they DO need.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Falamazeer » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:33 pm #98615

lumipharon wrote:things that ned to be nerfed for sec is shit like helmetcams, which make it a nany state, making it very hard to kill officers unseen.
Basic survivibility is something they DO need.

Because repeating it will no doubt make it true.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:54 pm #98621

armor has bullet resist of 15. This has not changed.
That's 17 damage instead of 20 per bullet.

That's a 6 hit crit instead of 5. Pretty OP.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby AdenAbrafo » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:30 pm #98634

Falamazeer wrote:Well... Are you accounting for the fact that most violence against security is NOT from an antag?
It was more true when greytide was in full swing, but it holds true today still.

If the antag vs nonantags mentality is still going to be kept around even then that's another thing a lot of people have been preaching to change then are you really trying to suggest that non antagonists regularly cause enough damage to officers to threaten their life in individual encounters? That just isn't true.
Are you suggesting that non antagonists regularly cause enough to officers throughout the round to threaten their life? That might be true, but if that's the case then this PR still helps move the server towards a mentality that people have been preaching by ensuring that security will actually need to visit medbay.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby CPTANT » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:00 pm #99436

If the aim of this was to make lethal combat more appealing its an awfully indirect aproach.

The core of the matter is that most lethals SUCK.

It takes 5 laser or pistol shots to crit an UNARMOURED person. People tank laser shots like crazy, you need to hit half the mag to actually take someone down.

Nobody fears lasers or pistols, people fear stunprods.

Buff the damage of all lethal weapons, so people wielding them are actually more scary than an assistant with a stunprod.

Buff laser and pistol damage to 25 for example.

Give disarming against e-swords a penalty. ITS A FUCKING LASERSWORD YOU ARE TRYING TO GRAB

That kind of stuff.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby TheNightingale » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:33 pm #99457

CPTANT wrote:If the aim of this was to make lethal combat more appealing its an awfully indirect aproach.

The core of the matter is that most lethals SUCK.

It takes 5 laser or pistol shots to crit an UNARMOURED person. People tank laser shots like crazy, you need to hit half the mag to actually take someone down.

Nobody fears lasers or pistols, people fear stunprods.

Buff the damage of all lethal weapons, so people wielding them are actually more scary than an assistant with a stunprod.

Buff laser and pistol damage to 25 for example.

Give disarming against e-swords a penalty. ITS A FUCKING LASERSWORD YOU ARE TRYING TO GRAB

That kind of stuff.


I like everything about this post. Especially the disarm-versus-esword. How about this?:
If you initiate hand-to-hand contact (grab, punch, disarm, hug) against any energy blade (sword, katana, axe) user that isn't on Help intent, you suffer 20 brute to each arm and your attack doesn't go through.

Nerf stunprods to deal stamina damage (45 stamina damage means it takes two hits to down an injured person, or three for anyone else), and buff basic laser and ballistic weapons - laser guns, stetchkin/10mms, and so on - to... how about 30 damage? It's still four hits on a full-health unarmoured person (rather than the five we have now), but if they're injured a little, it's three.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby lumipharon » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:35 pm #99459

stechkin is 30 damage already.
SMG and Uzi are 20 damage because they have large mags and burstfire which can be instantly reloaded.

Revolver is a 2 hit crit even on sec officers.

The idea about e-swords and disarming is great though. I'd like to see after dismemberment gets in, greyshirts trying to disarm an e-sword only to slice their own arm off.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Ikarrus » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:42 pm #99462

I'm just going to say, if you buff sec I'll probably buff gangs accordingly.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:49 pm #99465

Ikarrus wrote:I'm just going to say, if you buff sec I'll probably going to buff gangs accordingly.

Good do similar for other antagonists who are on the weak side.

Although I am not sure gang is weak.

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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Oldman Robustin » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:18 am #99510

>Be HoS
>Flukeops
>Have my full armor + riot shield setup
>Pukeop fires a burst from his C20R
>I block one bullet with my shield but the rest hit chest and arm, I go down from stamina damage and have flashing red HP


Plz, if I'm going to put the burdens of the station on my back, I need armor that isn't made out of cardboard.
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Re: Armour Nerfs

Postby Ikarrus » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:19 am #99513

That's because armor doesn't block stamina damage.

And SMGs deal 65 stamina damage per bullet.

Increasing armor values isn't going to help you in this case.
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