Jetspacks go faster with red stripes

Post by **oranges** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:22 am #99583

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10218

I've given jetpacks and space walking fairly big buffs to speed.

Please provide feedback in this thread if you feel it is required.

http://www.xeon.pw/~francis/speed_change.webm 60fps webm comparison

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:41 am #99590

So assholes in space will be even more difficult to deal with?

I think all that needed to be done was removing slowdown if you were hurt/hungry.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:53 am #99594

Doesn't exist mate, hasn't for ages.

If you had a jetpack in no grav, no status effects were applied when moving

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8367

Post by **PKPenguin321** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:53 am #99595

If this is anything like fastspace (which it looks like it is) then yes please

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:01 am #99603

So why did we nerf jetpacks in the first place?

Keep in mind that this change makes following someone in space combat a whole lot more difficult. You can actually have a good spess chase as it is currently, but prior to jetpacks being slowed, you'd really struggle.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:35 am #99614

I don't think it was a nerf so much as an unintended side effect of changing the way space movement works to begin with. It was just never brought up to speed with the change.

Remember because of that change shit like lasers will change your direction, you can compound more "thrust" by having more forces act on you in a certain direction, and even the singularity/items drift.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:37 pm #99679

oranges wrote:Doesn't exist mate, hasn't for ages.

If you had a jetpack in no grav, no status effects were applied when moving

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8367

Holy shit that Essay by Mr.Persons my fucking sides are in orbit. May he never be allowed to create slowspace again

Why is there no syndicate jetpack purchase for uplinks anyway?

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:36 pm #99688

DA RED WUNZ GO FASTA

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:34 pm #99715

Bombadil wrote:
oranges wrote:Doesn't exist mate, hasn't for ages.

If you had a jetpack in no grav, no status effects were applied when moving

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8367
Holy shit that Essay by Mr.Persons my fucking sides are in orbit. May he never be allowed to create slowspace again

Why is there no syndicate jetpack purchase for uplinks anyway?

Space already has enough advantages, we might as well keep traitors having a modicum of difficulty obtaining a jetpack (just emag into EVA or borrow a hardsuit that has it built in: does the blood red one?).

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:15 am #100313

Not really a fan of it. Space combat is now just spray and pray.
Zero G sanic speeds on station, while fun, was removed some time ago for a reason (magboots rampages or whatever the person in charge didn't like).

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:21 am #100315

Some guy essentially made it his mission to go out of his way, when he got antag, to get a jetpack and disable the gravity generator to prove a point of how broken the old jetpack speeds were inside the station.

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:32 am #100317

Steelpoint wrote:Some guy essentially made it his mission to go out of his way, when he got antag, to get a jetpack and disable the gravity generator to prove a point of how broken the old jetpack speeds were inside the station.

Well, he's a headmin now, maybe he's calmed down.

Doesn't change the fact that it's still a REALLY strong strategy and somebody else might step into his shoes.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Actionb wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Some guy essentially made it his mission to go out of his way, when he got antag, to get a jetpack and disable the gravity generator to prove a point of how broken the old jetpack speeds were inside the station.
Well, he's a headmin now, maybe he's calmed down.
Doesn't change the fact that it's still a REALLY strong strategy and somebody else might step into his shoes.

Stickymayhem used magboots, not the jetpack, because magboots really WERE broken, having every advantage of a jetpack and absolutely no disadvantages

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:48 pm #100337

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Actionb wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Some guy essentially made it his mission to go out of his way, when he got antag, to get a jetpack and disable the gravity generator to prove a point of how broken the old jetpack speeds were inside the station.
Well, he's a headmin now, maybe he's calmed down.
Doesn't change the fact that it's still a REALLY strong strategy and somebody else might step into his shoes.
Stickymayhem used magboots, not the jetpack, because magboots really WERE broken, having every advantage of a jetpack and absolutely no disadvantages

What's your point? Only disadvantage of a jetpack is not having a backpack on your back. Concerning movement, there is no difference in zero g.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:50 am #100954

oranges wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10218

I've given jetpacks and space walking fairly big buffs to speed.

Please provide feedback in this thread if you feel it is required.

http://www.xeon.pw/~francis/speed_change.webm 60fps webm comparison

While your on it why not add sonic the hedgehog hardsuit and add a sound to it who comes near to you
YOUR TO SLOW!

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:32 am #100984

Steelpoint wrote:Some guy essentially made it his mission to go out of his way, when he got antag, to get a jetpack and disable the gravity generator to prove a point of how broken the old jetpack speeds were inside the station.

You forget that gravless running speed in the station was just as fast as well.

I'd write an essay detailing why this is a good change if I wasn't on a crappy tablet. Also, dem votes and MrP's butthurt.

Post by **oranges** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:24 am #101172

Ezel wrote:
oranges wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10218

I've given jetpacks and space walking fairly big buffs to speed.

Please provide feedback in this thread if you feel it is required.

http://www.xeon.pw/~francis/speed_change.webm 60fps webm comparison
While your on it why not add sonic the hedgehog hardsuit and add a sound to it who comes near to you
YOUR TO SLOW!

CUMON STEP UP DNDNDNDNDNDNDN

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:58 am #101196

this is seriously better, thank you based god

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:06 am

Ikarrus wrote:So assholes in space will be even more difficult to deal with?

I think all that needed to be done was removing slowdown if you were hurt/hungry.

Yes and good.

Space is one of the few fucking places where antags should be goddamn terrifying.

Plus I've seen like 3 antags with jetpacks in the last year. It's not a common tactic.

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:42 pm #101313

Just keep it as it is now. Keep it the same speed as normal speed, don't make people faster. Jetpacks already has an advantage, control of direction and stability. And please god no, please no fast space walking.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:48 pm #101317

Oldman Robustin wrote:
Ikarrus wrote:So assholes in space will be even more difficult to deal with?

I think all that needed to be done was removing slowdown if you were hurt/hungry.
Yes and good.

Space is one of the few fucking places where antags should be goddamn terrifying.

Plus I've seen like 3 antags with jetpacks in the last year. It's not a common tactic.

Eeuh all those traitors now use engineering/atmos/blood red hardsuits that have BUILD IN JETPACKS.

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:51 pm

CPTANT wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:
Ikarrus wrote:So assholes in space will be even more difficult to deal with?

I think all that needed to be done was removing slowdown if you were hurt/hungry.
Yes and good.

Space is one of the few fucking places where antags should be goddamn terrifying.

Plus I've seen like 3 antags with jetpacks in the last year. It's not a common tactic.
Eeuh all those traitors now use engineering/atmos/blood red hardsuits that have BUILD IN JETPACKS.

People need to stop freaking out over built-in jet packs. They aren't that great, are fiddly to use, and even using large air tanks don't last nearly as long as a properly charged jetpack.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:12 pm

firecage wrote:Just keep it as it is now. Keep it the same speed as normal speed, don't make people faster. Jetpacks already has an advantage, control of direction and stability. And please god no, please no fast space walking.

Why do you hate something that literally improves the user experience in almost every situation?

If I'm using a pack to look for xenos, hunt for a powersink, search for dead bodies, etc. then as a GOOD GUY I would prefer a fast jetpack even when in 1 out of every 100 rounds a bad guy might use that jetpack speed to make it difficult to apprehend them. I mean it's still hard to capture anyone with a jetpack in space as it is, this is just a quality of life thing.

We're on a space station and nobody wants to do anything in space because its so clunky and slow.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:15 pm #101337

slowspace needs to die

Also I made the inbuilt jetpacks for engineers who work outside the station so they can have jetpacks without looting EVA, I gave them to nukeops because i was asked to and I had no reason not to.

Security is not meant to go outside the station, they're already fortunate in having their own hardsuits, if they want a jetpack they can grab them from EVA.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:28 pm #101372

Scott wrote:slowspace needs to die

Also I made the inbuilt jetpacks for engineers who work outside the station so they can have jetpacks without looting EVA, I gave them to nukeops because i was asked to and I had no reason not to.

Security is not meant to go outside the station, they're already fortunate in having their own hardsuits, if they want a jetpack they can grab them from EVA.

Security is supposed to be able to chase criminals who go into space: that's why their hardsuits exist. The job is to keep the station secure, and they can't do that if they can't stop someone robbing the armoury or releasing perma prisoners who stays just out of range.

Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:37 pm

Cheimon wrote:
Scott wrote:slowspace needs to die

Also I made the inbuilt jetpacks for engineers who work outside the station so they can have jetpacks without looting EVA, I gave them to nukeops because i was asked to and I had no reason not to.

Security is not meant to go outside the station, they're already fortunate in having their own hardsuits, if they want a jetpack they can grab them from EVA.
Security is supposed to be able to chase criminals who go into space: that's why their hardsuits exist. The job is to keep the station secure, and they can't do that if they can't stop someone robbing the armoury or releasing perma prisoners who stays just out of range.

I'm inclined to agree. Of everyone who isn't a shaft miner, security needs a jetpack the most.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:09 pm #101453

Scott wrote:slowspace needs to die

Also I made the inbuilt jetpacks for engineers who work outside the station so they can have jetpacks without looting EVA, I gave them to nukeops because i was asked to and I had no reason not to.

Security is not meant to go outside the station, they're already fortunate in having their own hardsuits, if they want a jetpack they can grab them from EVA.

The main task engineers do outside the station, namely wiring solars and fixing breaches (which can usually be done just as well from the inside) do not require a jetpack. Fighting people shooting revolvers at you in space DOES require a jetpack. There is zero reason why engineers should get the build in jetpack if security doesn't get them.
Currently there is a situation where engineers can just loot the armoury with impunity without ever getting a jetpack, because their hardsuits are blatantly superior in space combat. An officer trying to defend the armory in a security hardsuit doesn't stand a chance.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: People need to stop freaking out over built-in jet packs. They aren't that great, are fiddly to use, and even using large air tanks don't last nearly as long as a properly charged jetpack.

They aren't fiddly to use at all. You put on the suit, put in the tank and turn it on. A large tank filled to the top lasts a fair bit of time, and you can easily take spares in your backpack. Having to not sacrifice your backpack slot actually makes them superior in most situations.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:20 pm #101455

How about this reason: security doesn't need to be all powerful.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:33 pm #101456

Scott wrote:How about this reason: security doesn't need to be all powerful.

yes making people wearing engineering hardsuits in space practically impervious to any form of security retaliation is definitely the way to go to balance security.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:51 am #101551

firecage wrote:Just keep it as it is now. Keep it the same speed as normal speed, don't make people faster. Jetpacks already has an advantage, control of direction and stability. And please god no, please no fast space walking.

You 2000 and late son

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:41 am #101573

CPTANT wrote:
Scott wrote:How about this reason: security doesn't need to be all powerful.
people wearing engineering hardsuits in space practically impervious to any form of security retaliation

THIS IS WHAT SECURITY PLAYERS REALLY THINK

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:55 pm #101581

Oh go ahead, practice fighting someone in space without a jetpack while they do have a jetpack. It puts you at a really severe disadvantage. From the sounds of it you've barely played security in rounds where going into space has been necessary. One guy in a hardsuit can take ridiculous amounts of time to catch, if at all.

Oldman Robustin · Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:51 pm

CPTANT wrote:
Scott wrote:How about this reason: security doesn't need to be all powerful.
yes making people wearing engineering hardsuits in space practically impervious to any form of security retaliation is definitely the way to go to balance security.

1) They still have to board the station to do any meaningful antagonism

2) Sec still has access to jetpacks, and chasing an engineer ghettopack with a real jetpack means they will run out of air first, and with decent reaction time you should be able to stay on them and plink them once you've got a sense for their movement patterns.

Plus jetpack chases are F-U-N

TheNightingale · Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:59 pm

How about we add proper jetpacks to Security suit storage units?

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:10 pm #102044

Oldman Robustin wrote:
CPTANT wrote:
Scott wrote:How about this reason: security doesn't need to be all powerful.
yes making people wearing engineering hardsuits in space practically impervious to any form of security retaliation is definitely the way to go to balance security.
1) They still have to board the station to do any meaningful antagonism

2) Sec still has access to jetpacks, and chasing an engineer ghettopack with a real jetpack means they will run out of air first, and with decent reaction time you should be able to stay on them and plink them once you've got a sense for their movement patterns.

Plus jetpack chases are F-U-N

1. Is true. 2 is not. You can easily carry spare oxygen tanks to use as fuel in a backpack. You can't carry spare jetpack fuel. (unless you drag a cannister with you)

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:20 pm #102046

Are we arguing about security and jetpacks?

Security don't have access to jetpacks at the moment, and they really need access to their hardsuits for the occasions where the antags are floating around in space.

In fact, I would suggest we should move the sec hardsuits southward because the hardsuits being right next to space means their easier to loot and deny access to.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

I agree that the secsuit SSUs should be in the security gear room rather than the Armory, so that they can actually be used to defend the damn thing

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:05 pm #102275

Wouldn't they be terribly unprotected there?

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:18 pm

From who? Anyone breaking in from space was going to go for the armory (Where only 3 people on station can get to them legally) anyway, and lawyertide doesn't have access.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:03 pm #102866

Other sec officers would pinch them for "Well someone might make a hull breach, i'll hog the hard suit just in case"
So it ends up like engineering where the hard suits are gone when you need one.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:09 pm #102870

On meta they are in a room up near Perma and the wardens office and locked behind (I think) armory access. It is a pretty good system, step it up boxfags

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:12 pm #102872

>Implying no sec basil is a good measure for sybil

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:17 pm #102873

We occasionally have 30ish pop and a nearly full team. Also the HoS has one of the old style sec hardsuits in his office

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:43 pm #102877

Malkevin wrote:Other sec officers would pinch them for "Well someone might make a hull breach, i'll hog the hard suit just in case"
So it ends up like engineering where the hard suits are gone when you need one.

I would love to have them in the equipment room. I will take the chance of someone taking them anyday above having them in the armory and getting blow out during an armory raid. Or having no one with armory access alive while the station burns to the ground. Or having a warden or hos that is so slow that everything is already stolen by the time they finally let you into the armory.

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