Revolutionary Thread

[AnonymousNow]

Made because I didn't see one, and wanted to suggest a minor change.

Gamemode is based too much around murder. Hell, I (as a rev) just saw Russel Krieger chase down a nonrev chemist at roundstart with a spear when the headrev was around the corner.

Simple idea for fixing - make marooning the heads/headrevs a MAJOR victory, and having them killed a MINOR one, at the very least from the revolutionaries' side. Only counts as major if all targets are safely marooned at the same time. Problem solved.

[Scones]

Are you saying we should let the shuttle leave during rev?

[lumipharon]

Unless you actually know you've got a headrev handy to convert, mid-late game it's perfectly reasonable to just murder non revs - hell, half chance they're implanted anyway.

Rev only gets shitty when it drags on because one die hard on either side refuses to give up, and there's 30 ghosts screaming at them to just kill themselves or something.

[AnonymousNow]

Are you saying we should let the shuttle leave during rev?

No. To clarify, it is currently possible to win a rev round by having all enemy heads be on any Z-level other than the station one ("abandoned the station").

Unless you actually know you've got a headrev handy to convert, mid-late game it's perfectly reasonable to just murder non revs - hell, half chance they're implanted anyway.

Rev only gets shitty when it drags on because one die hard on either side refuses to give up, and there's 30 ghosts screaming at them to just kill themselves or something.

This was early game, literally about five or ten minutes into the round.

[PKPenguin321]

i think that that guy was just a shitter
if that ended up cucking the whole rev, he could probably get team antag banned
not something to change the whole gamemode over though

[AnonymousNow]

i think that that guy was just a shitter
if that ended up cucking the whole rev, he could probably get team antag banned
not something to change the whole gamemode over though

Ah, but that guy started yelling, and witnesses were there, and then security began being active.

In some rounds, a blitz works, but attacking non-heads instead of converting them or - gasp - leaving them alone is still a pointless waste of time that's likely to get you rumbled (and it did). I, personally, have seen several rev rounds being fundamentally altered from an early date because some tit with an issue is systematically killing everyone in medbay for some godawful reason - and yes, that DOES hinder the revs' chances, not that the people doing the boning care.

It'd be a simple change, that wouldn't fundamentally alter the way the roundtype is played, and yet would make rounds like these far more interesting.

[Incomptinence]

Give murder a chance no more hugs.

Rev bloodbath forever.

[Gun Hog]

Rev is muderbone, the gamemode. It is the roundtype that lets everyone release their frustration of having to put up with jerks, the mime, and the clown. Do not change this, ever.

[AnonymousNow]

It's a flavour change, for chrissakes. What is the problem?

[Scones]

Slightly unrelated but if the shuttle could leave during rev and victory conditions revolved around who was on it, it would be more objective based and a lot less "KILL PEOPLE UNTIL WE KILL THE RIGHT PEOPLE."

You can glorify it as much as you want, and say it's a great "stress relief" round - But I actually disagree. Rev rounds have a tendency to drag on for eternity, and you can watch over the next hour+ as the server population slowly drops. It's not fun or interesting for the thirty or so dead players, waiting while the CMO hides in a locker in the upload and the last revhead is hiding in space around the station. I've played a lot of rev, and a lot of long rev rounds, and I really think the long TDM stalemate is just a shitty design at this point.

Allow the shuttle to leave, don't reward the crew for evacuating and leaving the station in the hands of those dirty commies. Instead, task them with making sure no subversive propagandists /escape/ the station alive, with the revhead victory's extremity being determined by how many (if any) of them or their converts manage to slip through Security's grasp.

[Saegrimr]

I hate rev rounds almost as much as ling rounds, but the big chaotic murderfest bloodfuck IS kind of a necessary distraction from the usual.
Could definitely use the shuttle call though for the times when the CE has fucked off into space and nobody can catch him.

[Zilenan91]

If I were to suggest a change, it would be this.

The revs objectives are, of course, to kill all heads of staff. This is how it has always been. If people think that rev rounds have been dragging on too long lately, perhaps the objective could be altered so that no heads of staff can escape on the emergency shuttle (because making it so none escape at all would be too hard) for the revs to win. It's fluffy. The proletariat perform their little mutiny, kill all the heads, feeling good about themselves after they murdered them, then get to centcom and are summarily executed for their actions.

A problem that could come from this is heads deconstructing a part of the engines and making a chair back there to deny greentext, but I feel that this would be rare enough to be acceptable.

[Incomptinence]

How about shuttle waits around for half an hour instead of 3 minutes and it leaving triggers a draw state because those leaving retreated before the enemy in what basically is a civil war so being a loss for them and revs want everyone to stay and commie out and don't wanna go to centcom anyway. Any heads on the shuttle don't matter because they basically fled Vietnam.

[AnonymousNow]

I suppose that's rather my point - rev rounds should feel inclusive for the whole server, and are known for being rounds where nearly the entire crew can find themselves on one side or the other. But ironically, people are being deliberately excluded by the number from as early as some revs can get away with, because "MUH VALIDS" - and then you get a bunch of angry ghosts who have to sit the game out because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time (which could include a completely unrelated department that they had to be hunted down in, at the expense of the hunter and possibly his entire movement).

Marooning (on, say, the mining asteroid, or derelict station) would be essentially a fluff change that encourages people to take the harder option, simply through being recognised for it.

[AnonymousNow]

I guess that this is a threadbump, considering recent events.

We're still having issues with murderboning across almost all roundtypes, and I'm not quite sure how to proceed. Major/Minor rev victories is definitely a good place to start, though.

[tuypo1]

It'd be a simple change, that wouldn't fundamentally alter the way the roundtype is played, and yet would make rounds like these far more interesting.

i agree that revs should not go killing non heads at the start of the round but i dont see how the proposed change affects that at all.

Also all it would do is make the round go longer then it needs to as people have to be draged around for a bit to get them off station instead of being put down.

[AnonymousNow]

It'd be a simple change, that wouldn't fundamentally alter the way the roundtype is played, and yet would make rounds like these far more interesting.

i agree that revs should not go killing non heads at the start of the round but i dont see how the proposed change affects that at all.

Also all it would do is make the round go longer then it needs to as people have to be draged around for a bit to get them off station instead of being put down.

It's a simple mindset encouragement change - people want THE BEST GREENTEXT almost as much as they want MUH VALIDS, so it adds a little bit of intrigue that, yes, does take a little longer. It is, of course, entirely worth it for the possible benefits.

It's all fluff and no crunch, so the murderboning purists can still have their bloody valids if they absolutely fucking must without changing anything about the way they operate; but it would encourage a slightly more thoughtful and interesting approach than GREHTADWUDWAHD.

[tuypo1]

it only stops killing the heads

i dont even understand the last bit.

[Amelius]

> People die in the crossfire in rev.
> One of the most well-liked gamemodes according to that earlier favourite roundtype poll.
> Bawww gotta change it so that no one dies.

H u g b o x

[TechnoAlchemist]

Death is part of rev. Killing neutrals when a head is unavailable to convert is a valid tactic that will save you in the end.

[Tornadium]

Death is part of rev. Killing neutrals when a head is unavailable to convert is a valid tactic that will save you in the end.

It goes double for sec, after a certain point you just assume the entire station is hostile sans those implanted already.

It's not worth wasting valuable implants on random shitheads who go off and die so killing them is far far more effective.

[Saegrimr]

> People die in the crossfire in rev.
> One of the most well-liked gamemodes according to that earlier favourite roundtype poll.
> Bawww gotta change it so that no one dies.

H u g b o x

Actually got an ahelp yesterday that some random rev killed him instead of taking him to be converted.

[Miauw]

those ahelps happen all the time tho

i guess its pretty shitty but hey what can you do
its not like rev rounds ever last long

[PKPenguin321]

those ahelps happen all the time tho

i guess its pretty shitty but hey what can you do
its not like rev rounds ever last long

while i do agree with you i gotta play devils advocate here, rev rounds CAN drag on very very very long if either side turtles hard enough
that's not enough of a reason to remove death from rev though

[Scones]

its not like rev rounds ever last long

[PKPenguin321]

nice meme!

[Scones]

nice meme!

thanks

[DaemonBomb]

0/10 meme I had to save the picture and zoom out to tell what it was.

[AnonymousNow]

that's not enough of a reason to remove death from rev though

My suggestion doesn't involve that, though.

[AnonymousNow]

Double-posting because last post was ages ago, and rev is still an absolute trainwreck of a roundtype so blighted by murderboning that admins in a round I just witnessed had to deal with several adminhelps from revs who had been killed by other revs. Cries for something to be done, little idea as to what; hence this thread.

We need to kidnap a coder to work on rev. How do we do that?

[PKPenguin321]

the thing is, anonymousnow, a lot of people disagree that rev is a bad gamemode

[AnonymousNow]

the thing is, anonymousnow, a lot of people disagree that rev is a bad gamemode

I imagine that these are the people who don't normally speak, other than to defend their right to murderbone.

Seriously, have heard nothing to that end. Even the few people who say "it's good to have an occasional blowout" don't seem to humour the suggestion of Highlander, and then turn around in Cult/Gang to blow their faction's cover early.

[Amelius]

Rev is one of the most popular gamemodes, second behind gang based on the most recent forum poll. Gang was pretty new at the time so it might actually be *the* most popular gamemode.

It's fine. Good quick 'n dirty stress-relief. Basically a low rule TDM round where sec can and will shoot anyone that so much as looks at them funny, and revs lynch. Also, fairly sure we found during multiple stretches of no rev rounds for a day or so that the greytiding got really shitty - keep in mind it used to be at like 3-5%.

Also - highlander isn't good because it's all melee combat, no teams, no access blocks to areas, all involving high damage equipment. On top of that, the most viable strategy consists of 'sitting in a locker until the shuttle comes'. There's no conflict, conversion factor, target or objective really, or even variability in equipment. It's just one FFA massacre.

[Cheimon]

The thing about rev is that it can be, and often is, a fun, fast, and bloody team deathmatch. When it works, you have these big mobs of people, often mismatched in gear and capabilities, struggling for control of key departments and working to expand their influence. A few initial skirmishes happen until one or both sides hit a critical mass, and then a huge slaughter begins, wiping out half the crew and seeing the rest of them victorious.

Highlander offers nothing like that. You're all alone, you've all got the same gear, and it stretches on for ages because even though someone can arm the nuke, they can never defend it. Frequently an admin enables respawning and then it just turns into a multiverse sword snoozefest until 40 minutes is up and we can all try again.

While rev can suck if the rev gets blown too early (an efficient sec force will implant the whole station if they get the chance), and it can turn boring if the heads hide (seriously, get stuck in, it's half the fun CMO), when it works -and it does work a good chunk of the time- it is a thing unfound in any other game mode. It is a fantastic release, it involves genuine teamwork, and it provides a real chance for gameplay that literally everyone on the station can get involved in, not just the select few chosen to be antagonists or their victims. Also, there are no unique items spawned in, which I always think is kind of neat. Departments get a much more meaningful in game difference as a result of that.

Also, the fact that it's a game mode means that a meta grows up around it. Patterns of gameplay shift and alter as time goes on; what is expected procedure one year may be quite different the next. Nobody plays highlander, so almost nobody has any idea what the right thing to do is (and in any case it's basically just a "who's best at the rng melee combat" round). Strategies and counter strategies slowly evolve over time, which is also fun. As a mode? Revolution is as good as any other, isn't broken, provides an entertaining deathmatch between two mobs, and shouldn't be drastically altered because people sometimes die early on. I wouldn't want it every round, but it's fun when it comes up.

[asskek]

Rev is great if you RP

I for one turn into a Guevara/Stalin-esque revolutionary, tossing molotovs and IEDs and shouting words of support

Gotta have a killer outfit too

[Incomptinence]

Murder is good for you.

[Saegrimr]

Double-posting because last post was ages ago, and rev is still an absolute trainwreck of a roundtype so blighted by murderboning that admins in a round I just witnessed had to deal with several adminhelps from revs who had been killed by other revs.

This specifically isn't/wasn't a problem with the gamemode itself. There's a huge fucking R next to your head and everybody on your team. Zero excuse to be running around hacking up your teammates with saws and shit, and they were handled accordingly.

[Super Aggro Crag]

rev rounds are garbagio the shitwank stinkpiss dragonfart since our server is now full of Guarnateed To be 100 #%%% down syndromer eretards who go "oh, i got revved, TIME 2 LITERALLY KILL EVERYONE" SO THEY CAMP the FDUCKING shuttle and kill latjeoiners instead of actuall trying to kill security and loyaltyplanters and heads cuz OH NO I MIGHT ACTUALLLY DIE, NO, I CAN ONLY STORKE ME MICROCACK TOO KILLING UNARMED PEOPLE WOH JUST JOINTED ban LITERALLY EVERYONE i am t hrowng up 50 bees at rev it is the smell it is the trash stink

[PKPenguin321]

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Not-Dorsidarf]

rev rounds are garbagio the shitwank stinkpiss dragonfart since our server is now full of Guarnateed To be 100 #%%% down syndromer eretards who go "oh, i got revved, TIME 2 LITERALLY KILL EVERYONE" SO THEY CAMP the FDUCKING shuttle and kill latjeoiners instead of actuall trying to kill security and loyaltyplanters and heads cuz OH NO I MIGHT ACTUALLLY DIE, NO, I CAN ONLY STORKE ME MICROCACK TOO KILLING UNARMED PEOPLE WOH JUST JOINTED ban LITERALLY EVERYONE i am t hrowng up 50 bees at rev it is the smell it is the trash stink

You sound like goofball on opiates.

[AnonymousNow]

Is there something I'm missing here?

The claim that rev rounds are extremely popular doesn't match up to the reality of what I see during revrounds on server, and the complaints that follow; as good revs try to maintain their secrecy, further their ends and convert people, badrevs rush out and start murderisin' anyone they can in the first few minutes, shouting to the whole server "HEY, IT'S REV. WE'RE REVS. REVS HERE." and so often encouraging a full-scale security response against the fledgling movement. And of course, you get people swarming the CMO & RD offices for early, easy kills (rev basically excludes those heads from the game if they're not already elsewhere when things get hot), camping arrivals for converts (okay) or kills (bad, actually against the rules, and yet I've seen it enforced maybe once in the past couple of months) and - this being a new thing - revs turn on each other. Plasma floods, singularity releases, straight-up stabbing at each other with spears...

That doesn't sound like TDM to me. That's terrible anarchy.

It's also a roundtype revolving around protagonists, who are the ones who've hoarded all the guns. It gets truncated early, with nothing like a Nanotrasen/Centcom response that would require true co-operation; I see very little roleplay, and it's usually from a tiny handful of individuals avoiding the horde of blank-faced, wordless, mindless zombies lining the corridors. That would be fun in a zombie gamemode, but it doesn't really fit in here.

If Highlander needs fixing, then let's think of ways to fix it. But in the meantime, I don't like the way the meta of revolutions has progressed. I'm wondering when we'll be formally tossing out the "no camping the arrivals shuttle" rule.

I'm telling you, MAJOR/MINOR VICTORIES. Not a fundamental change, not a mechanical change, only a greentext one that could subtly alter the way some people play the game so that it becomes much more interesting than the standard, bland clickfest that we who actually play the game encounter round after boring round.

[Steelpoint]

Revolutionary's have a 82% win rate on all population levels.

Being sneaky or overt does not make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

[AnonymousNow]

Revolutionary's have a 82% win rate on all population levels.

Being sneaky or overt does not make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Jesus wept. It's hardly a toss-up, is it?

[asskek]

There is a precedent for this

I remember way back before goofchem, there was a guy that EVERY ROUND he was a rev would force-feed poison to nonrevs before the revolution was even confirmed

Never banned iirc, but admins didn't seem to have a problem with his fellow revs lynching him.

However, when murder of nonrevs is widespread, that's not really a solution.

I think the fact that headrevs have very little control over their men is true to life, really.

[Davidchan]

Stupid idea inbound that admittedly breaks the win/lose condition of abandoning the station.

What ifs... the Shuttle automatically arrived at the 13:30-14:15 mark? Random, of course, no notice and no recall.

Once the shuttle has arrived, loyal crew has 5 minutes to board before it leaves. If a Loyal head is on the shuttle when it leaves (and thus gets to CentCom alive) then the Crew/Heads get a Minor Victory. If no heads get on the shuttle/arrive at CentCom alive (rev's murdering them enroute/bombs/ect) then it's a Minor Victory for the Revolution. This would force an objective upon both the Heads and Revs to control escape rather than hiding in what ever department they call home, Heads hiding in Security would be giving up the round due to inaction, and could make for some interesting scenes where loyalist crew/security are trying to push through the Revs to get to the shuttle if Major Victory isn't an option.

Presumeably when the shuttle leaves a Deathsquad would arrive to cleanse the station, spawning 3+ ghosts at arrivals and having them work their way through the station as the shuttle returns to CentCom would a decent round end event and just maybe give the people who are salty at being rev murdered a chance to vent and cleanse, regardless major victory conditions should be disabled AFTER the shuttle leaves, incase the Rev Heads all die during the cleanse due to Deathsquad.

Escape pods here are the tricky question. On Skeleton crew/low pop (>40 people) pods should be non-functional (with a cryptic message about them not working should a Head try to cheese their way out.) Realistically though, Pods don't go to CentCom and that SHOULD be the Minor Victory condition to get a Command member to Cent.

[Saegrimr]

(bad, actually against the rules, and yet I've seen it enforced maybe once in the past couple of months)

That's also reliant on people ahelping about it, i've yet to get one in recent memory.

[Oldman Robustin]

If we could capture the craziness of those Titanfall-style escape shuttles that would be great for this game. Custom Centcom shuttles with an appropriate number of shuttle guards who are given explicit orders not to leave the shuttle would make for some epic escapes (or attempts).

It would just take an intelligent admin (getting the number of guards right so that it's not a steamroll for the revs but isn't an impregnable fortress either) or an even more intelligent coder to make this a more routine occurrence (When revs make up x% of crew and a majority of heads are dead, an evac option becomes possible from Command Consoles, perhaps even a mini-event where the evac request gives a warning and the revs have 60 seconds to access the console and cancel the request), once the shuttle arrives it will remain for X minutes and will depart after that time, failure to escape on the shuttle is a rev major victory... success in evac'ing is a Neutral or Minor Station outcome.

[TechnoAlchemist]

I've noticed that the CMO and RD hardsuits have made rev a lot worse since many RDs and CMOS fuck off into space as soon as rev is called.

[Saegrimr]

I've noticed that the CMO and RD hardsuits have made rev a lot worse since many RDs and CMOS fuck off into space as soon as rev is called.

Well when the alternative is to just call gib on them when the round starts...

Besides, maybe they can keep the CE company in space for the next 45 minutes while he circles the station pretending to "have a plan"