MAP ROTATION

[MrStonedOne]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12089

This requires the use of the server tools toolset that sybil and basil already use to do updates and watch-dog auto restart on crash.

The current map is listed in the status and lobby stat panels (regardless of if map rotation is enabled)

Once the shuttle hits the point of no return, the ticker will roll for a chance to do a map rotation.

Rotate chance is calculated as ((round time in minutes)/2)%. So a 40minute round has a 20% chance of changing maps. a 60 minute round has a 30% chance.

This is a random map rotation that is weighted based on player preferences. Server operators can also rig the weighting to favor certain maps.

Maps can have a min and max population.

A single configured default map will absorb the votes of people who haven't set a preferred map.

Renamed tgstation2 to Box Station

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I am humping the air right now.

[Alex Crimson]

Sooo... what maps are we having in the rotation, and what will be the requirements to get your map added? I assume we will not just be throwing every map into it.

[MrStonedOne]

I assume we will not just be throwing every map into it.

Well, that's what you get for assuming things.

[Incoming]

Crosspost from github:

A good idea, but I still think we should just have a server that runs box 24/7 to placate those that enjoy the strong familiarity of it.

Also yeah point still stands about expecting people to update more maps, even with just three most people couldn't hack it, I shudder to think what would happen with more.

[MrStonedOne]

The system checks for compile and logs a failure to compile and notifies the admins.

The idea being that we would have the core maps, the ones tested with travis, and then we would have the other maps, the ones that have their own maintainer(s) who is expected to keep them up to date if they want them to continue to be in the repo.

If a map slips for too long, it gets removed, and the map maintainer(s) can re-add it when they get more time/motivation.

[Oldman Robustin]

Not a fan of this.

Play enough rounds where you're getting stabbed to death in the "bathroom" and security takes 10 minutes to find the damn place, if they show up at all.

It gets old.

Novelty of new maps <<< Having a functioning crew thats not all playing Dora the Explorer in maint

Rotations should be rare... like 5% rare.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Not a fan of this.

Play enough rounds where you're getting stabbed to death in the "bathroom" and security takes 10 minutes to find the damn place, if they show up at all.

It gets old.

Novelty of new maps <<< Having a functioning crew thats not all playing Dora the Explorer in maint

Rotations should be rare... like 5% rare.

>2 maps, with 2 more possibly maybe showing up in the future

"EVERYONE WILL LOSE THE PART OF THEIR BRAIN INVOLVING FORMING SPATIAL AWARENESS"

[MrStonedOne]

avg round length is 40minutes.

so thats 20% chance for a map rotation to even happen.

Count in the fact that all people who haven't set a preference will default to box station on sybil.

Count in the fact that most people who do vote will vote for box.

Count in the fact that map vote weights will ensure that votes for box station are weighted higher than other maps.

I'd say about 5 to 8% chance per round of a map change is about right.

[MrStonedOne]

Oh! And it will revert to the default map (box station for sybil) on update. (unless it so happens to trigger a map rotate after the update but before the round ends)

[CPTANT]

This is great and I really appreciate your effort to improve the more fundamental aspects of the game.

[Scott]

Now we just need maps, eh?

[lumipharon]

Not a fan of this.

Play enough rounds where you're getting stabbed to death in the "bathroom" and security takes 10 minutes to find the damn place, if they show up at all.

It gets old.

Novelty of new maps <<< Having a functioning crew thats not all playing Dora the Explorer in maint

Rotations should be rare... like 5% rare.

That would be like playing [insert one of almost any game ever here, shooters/RTS/fucking everything], and saying if you play more then one map people will have no idea what they are doing or where they are.
This is true. It also takes a tiny amount of time to learn new things unless you are genuinely retarded.

[Saegrimr]

BUT 2FORT IS THE BEST MAP

[PKPenguin321]

wait hold on is ministation still in the code
imagine 75~ player sybil on ministation

[Luke Cox]

You are the best coder

[MrStonedOne]

wait hold on is ministation still in the code
imagine 75~ player sybil on ministation

Maps can have a min and max population.

[Steelpoint]

I share Oldman's concern on this, the map rotation will just make it harder for anyone to respond to help since no one knows where the heck to go aside from those Assistants who all come from Basil and, by coincidence, happen to all be antagonists.

This won't change for a very long time considering the fact that as stated above Boxstation is still going to be the dominate map, with around a 20% to 8% chance of the server swapping from Box to Meta at the end of a round. This means we will get the occasional clusterfuck of a round where no one knows where to go until next round we're back on Box as people continue to complain in OOC about that shitty round we just had on Meta.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I share Oldman's concern on this, the map rotation will just make it harder for anyone to respond to help since no one knows where the heck to go aside from those Assistants who all come from Basil and, by coincidence, happen to all be antagonists.

This won't change for a very long time considering the fact that as stated above Boxstation is still going to be the dominate map, with around a 20% to 8% chance of the server swapping from Box to Meta at the end of a round. This means we will get the occasional clusterfuck of a round where no one knows where to go until next round we're back on Box as people continue to complain in OOC about that shitty round we just had on Meta.

- and yet they voted, again and again, to have intermittent rounds on Metastation on sybil, and there was no wave of complaints, or clusterfuck rounds.

In other words: You're making up a theoretical worst-case scenario and presenting it as the definite fact.

[Tornadium]

I share Oldman's concern on this, the map rotation will just make it harder for anyone to respond to help since no one knows where the heck to go aside from those Assistants who all come from Basil and, by coincidence, happen to all be antagonists.

This won't change for a very long time considering the fact that as stated above Boxstation is still going to be the dominate map, with around a 20% to 8% chance of the server swapping from Box to Meta at the end of a round. This means we will get the occasional clusterfuck of a round where no one knows where to go until next round we're back on Box as people continue to complain in OOC about that shitty round we just had on Meta.

Are we just operating on the assumption that everyone who plays on Sybil is mentally retarded and can't learn how to navigate a new environment in a reasonably quick time?

You know it's really not that fucking difficult to remember.

[Incomptinence]

Make sure each has its own little map on a few walls so people can reorient themselves that sorts unfamiliar maps for me at least.

[CPTANT]

Running lowpop rounds on small stations would be GREAT. Box just doesn't work with 10 people or less online.

Also please stop acting like everyone is too stupid to become familiar with a map other than box when it is played more. I played 4 rounds or so on Meta when Sybil ran it an I can find things on meta just fine, sure there is a lot of shit left to discover but that only makes it fun.

[Grazyn]

Make sure each has its own little map on a few walls so people can reorient themselves that sorts unfamiliar maps for me at least.

It would be great if the wall mounted map showed a map of the station in a pop-up when clicked, just like the crew monitor, only without the dots (or maybe just your own dot)

[bandit]

I like how the "git gud" squad is complaining about having to learn locations on a new map every once in a while. To which I say: GIT GUD.

[Miauw]

BUT 2FORT IS THE BEST MAP

if you are playing pubs and want the full pub experience, powerhouse is all you need.

[Scones]

It's not hard to learn a new map

[Gun Hog]

Having the department signs on the walls is a major help as well.

[Oldman Robustin]

I share Oldman's concern on this, the map rotation will just make it harder for anyone to respond to help since no one knows where the heck to go aside from those Assistants who all come from Basil and, by coincidence, happen to all be antagonists.

This won't change for a very long time considering the fact that as stated above Boxstation is still going to be the dominate map, with around a 20% to 8% chance of the server swapping from Box to Meta at the end of a round. This means we will get the occasional clusterfuck of a round where no one knows where to go until next round we're back on Box as people continue to complain in OOC about that shitty round we just had on Meta.

- and yet they voted, again and again, to have intermittent rounds on Metastation on sybil, and there was no wave of complaints, or clusterfuck rounds.

In other words: You're making up a theoretical worst-case scenario and presenting it as the definite fact.

You have a very high bar for "clusterfuck round". I have yet to see a really fun round go down on Metastation on Sybil.

Everyone explores the station. The station threat reveals itself. The crew is either too busy exploring or too lost to find the threat. Station goes to shit/evacuates. I've been around for more map rotations than most people here, a couple years ago we spent weeks on alternative maps. It was always the same, you'd occasionally get lucky and have a normal round but 90% of the rounds were "Cargo Tech: CULT IN UH... TABLE ROOM?!" "AI: CONFIRMED, Cult is uh, north of that place with too many vending machines" "Security: RESPONDING, heading to... well I'm just going to walk in this direction and hope I find something".

People can barely manage Box and its a very simple map we've been playing for years. Get yourself murdered in construction site, vacant office, testing lab, and Gateway and you'll start to see what I'm talking about. Now amplify that effect by 200% and apply it to every room on the station, boom that's map rotation. People seem to forget how new/incompetent the average player is.

SS13 is just not that enjoyable when the defining feature of a round is "Nobody knows where anything".

[JackHunt]

Won't the exploration problem die down once people play on the map more? I feel like a lot of the problems with alternate maps are self perpetuating because they never get played enough for them to fix themselves.

[Luke Cox]

The whole "two maps is confusing!" thing falls apart for three reasons:

1. The mechanics are the same across both maps, things are just laid out slightly differently.
2. People can just glance at a map on the wiki, or look at one of the 50 maps plastered on the wall.
3. We've already run meta on Sybil, and everybody adapted fine.


We already had a poll on this. The community overwhelmingly supports map rotation.

[Saegrimr]

I guess nobody here remembers their first time on box. Finding new shit is fun.

[DaemonBomb]

Alas, if only anyone other than me was anything but an imbecile! Thank God that I'm here to save you all from your own ignorance, and rescue you from the evils of learning and exploration! It's a fact that if you present anyone other than myself with something they haven't seen before they will literally lose all control over their central nervous system!

[Shadowlight213]

I'm pretty sure the only people who have difficulty learning a new map are the people complaining everyone else will have difficulty.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Yay map rotation!

Boo Oldman Robustin et al. being jerks about it!

[PKPenguin321]

wait hold on is ministation still in the code
imagine 75~ player sybil on ministation

Maps can have a min and max population.

mso's code is looking like neo, dodging all these bullets

[Incomptinence]

Make sure each has its own little map on a few walls so people can reorient themselves that sorts unfamiliar maps for me at least.

It would be great if the wall mounted map showed a map of the station in a pop-up when clicked, just like the crew monitor, only without the dots (or maybe just your own dot)

Yeah that would be fantastic. They need to make those minimaps for the crew monitor anyway.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Make sure each has its own little map on a few walls so people can reorient themselves that sorts unfamiliar maps for me at least.

It would be great if the wall mounted map showed a map of the station in a pop-up when clicked, just like the crew monitor, only without the dots (or maybe just your own dot)

Yeah that would be fantastic. They need to make those minimaps for the crew monitor anyway.

Agreed. That's actually my favorite feature from goonstation, because it's so simple and yet so helpful.

[Gun Hog]

It should be simple to do. Just load the map on the crew monitor without the crew tracking features.

[Oldman Robustin]

I'm pretty sure the only people who have difficulty learning a new map are the people complaining everyone else will have difficulty.

You're going to pretend I have difficulty with this shit? Last time we did this I had the maps open on a 2nd monitor for maximum powergayman.

Nobody posting in this thread is going to have difficulty adjusting to a new map. I'm talking about the 95% of our playerbase that doesn't post here and doesn't religiously follow every new thing on the server.

And yes, exploring new maps CAN be fun. But the problem is that just like babby's first extended round... it's not going to be novel for everyone else. Sure you may be SO PUMPED for building your first rage cage in the bar and its gonna be TOTALLY SICK because its such a COOL FUN CREATIVE IDEA, but the rest of us who have seen it done 1,001 times are not so entertained.

Johnny Newbutt may have fun wandering maint for items and hidden rooms, but I probably already know the station as well as Box and I get no joy from watching Johnny's wonder-filled exploration of maintenance, the only wonder I'm experiencing is wondering why Officer Johnny is digging through maint crates while revolutionaries storm the brig.

This isn't my first rodeo, this isn't speculation, crew quality drastically decreases on a new map. Blob is autowin. Wizard might as well be untrackable. Good luck surviving rev or gang war when 3/4th of security will get lost trying to find cargo. I'm not saying there are no benefits to new maps, but I found a distinct reduction in round quality existed during our last map rotation.

[Saegrimr]

HOW DARE OTHER PEOPLE ENJOY THEMSELVES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Seriously, fuck off with that ego.

[Miauw]

I'm pretty sure the only people who have difficulty learning a new map are the people complaining everyone else will have difficulty.

You're going to pretend I have difficulty with this shit? Last time we did this I had the maps open on a 2nd monitor for maximum powergayman.

Nobody posting in this thread is going to have difficulty adjusting to a new map. I'm talking about the 95% of our playerbase that doesn't post here and doesn't religiously follow every new thing on the server.

And yes, exploring new maps CAN be fun. But the problem is that just like babby's first extended round... it's not going to be novel for everyone else. Sure you may be SO PUMPED for building your first rage cage in the bar and its gonna be TOTALLY SICK because its such a COOL FUN CREATIVE IDEA, but the rest of us who have seen it done 1,001 times are not so entertained.

Johnny Newbutt may have fun wandering maint for items and hidden rooms, but I probably already know the station as well as Box and I get no joy from watching Johnny's wonder-filled exploration of maintenance, the only wonder I'm experiencing is wondering why Officer Johnny is digging through maint crates while revolutionaries storm the brig.

This isn't my first rodeo, this isn't speculation, crew quality drastically decreases on a new map. Blob is autowin. Wizard might as well be untrackable. Good luck surviving rev or gang war when 3/4th of security will get lost trying to find cargo. I'm not saying there are no benefits to new maps, but I found a distinct reduction in round quality existed during our last map rotation.

yes and after a few weeks at most none of this will happen anymore, because other people can also learn new maps #wow #whoa

[Atlanta-Ned]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Please stop before someone mistakes your whining as having any validity.

[Scones]

As much as I don't think the average player is very smart, they do have the capacity to learn a new map. It's not that bad.

In other news, I think MSO local merged Dreamstation. Very excited to see it in action.

[Oldman Robustin]

Only thing that's beyond question here is the ability of the average player to have competent knowledge of several maps. I research maps more than 99% of the players here and I still doubt my ability to become map competent on more than 3-4 maps.

First round of map rotation:

http://imgur.com/tCjREQ7

20% of the crew suicides off the bat. This is not a healthy round and doesn't enhance the game. Many veteran players do not want Dora the Explorer rounds and treat non-Box rounds about as seriously as you treat Meteor rounds.

Edit: Deadchat started mass chanting for swarmers so that we could destroy this abomination of a map.

Edit 2: 40 people in dead chat now, most of their own free will.

[Saegrimr]

Then those "veteran players" need to quit being such babies that their meta is shaken up.

[ThanatosRa]

20% is smaller than 80%. 80% has the majority. that 20 can just get over it and learn the new maps. TO allow this to go more than like... a day or two before their dominance and meta is considered to be restored. It's not fair to the majority that the vocal minority does so much to get their way. People, as I understand, voted considerably in favor of this.


I shame myself to say this CJS, but GIT GUD.

I, for one, eagerly anticipate my arrival home from work tonight with the hope that I can poke around the new maps in a live environment.

[Oldman Robustin]

Then those "veteran players" need to quit being such babies that their meta is shaken up.

You been listening? It's nothing to do with meta. Veterans thrive on new map meta because they will learn new maps 500% faster than other scrubs and can go on ridiculous murder sprees simply because they know all the hiding spots, secrets, and best ambush locations while Average Joe Security can barely tell what half of the station he's in.

It's just that veterans appreciate having functional crews and the new map = retard crew thing is a tired worn out meme for us. Or we just hate Metastation. Probably both.

[ThanatosRa]

Give the unwashed masses more than Ten fucking minutes CJS. I'm so tired of your negative attitude, it's detrimental to the community. It's harshin' my groove, man. Peace. Love. Harmony.

[Saegrimr]

[...]quit being such babies[...]

If they want to throw away their round, that's on them.

[ThanatosRa]

Keep this in if only to spite them.