Plasmamen at Roundstart (MERGED!)

[Sweaterkittens]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Yea, I disregarded that entirely.

I'm going to be blunt. Don't post in the thread if you're to even going to take the time to read the issues that were addressed, including the one you brought up, which has been addressed several times.

I just don't like the idea of more round start races based on the amount of lizard drama alone, and I feel I am not alone in this. Logic it all you like, but lots of people are just going to straight up not like this idea and I don't think you will be able to sway them

And that's a reasonable concern. Frankly, this whole thing has gotten me very frustrated about Lizards, as they have seemingly brought a lot of drama and concern for non-humans with very little actual variance, variety and roleplay. While I've addressed this previously, I will say again that Plasmamen are functionally very different from Lizards, and I'm certain that they will attract a different group of players. Lizards have no disadvantage (aside from no head roles/being nonhuman) so there's no reason NOT to play them just to fool around and start fights. Additionally, as something one might consider a "furry" race, they attract that crowd, and a lot of the weird shit that's associated with it. On the other hand, Plasmamen have some distinct disadvantages that make them harder to play and more likely to die, which means there won't be a ton of people playing them (once the initial rush dies down). They also aren't even remotely furry, and they won't attract the same amount of drama that Lizard Erp has. Plasmamen have the added bonus of not being allowed to ERP without literally bursting into flames, no admin intervention required!

i would be for adding plasmamen, but agree in that it would require a lot of nerfs/has the potential for a lot of griffing on both sides on both an ic and ooc standpoint. regardless, i would advocate the addition and playtest them so i can whine about getting shit on ic try out a new perspective

Glad to hear your support! I've done my best to respond to player's concerns about potential griefing, as well as give them very distinct disadvantages. If you have any particular concerns about griefing, please voice them, I'd be happy to address them.

[tuypo1]

if they get injected through a port how could you explain syringe guns its hard to explain aim that good and being imune to syringe guns is a prety huge buff.

[tuypo1]

this thread has made me change my mind on plasmaman lore though I used to like the backstory but the more I think about it the more I realise its really quite stupid.

[lmwevil]

I was bribed on irc to speak in this thread. As one of the original pushers, looking forward to plasmamen. Change them burning up in cloners though.


All in all. The dream may not be dead. Plasmabros get my +1.

[Steelpoint]

Make it Plasmamen cannot be cloned due to their unique physiology.

Bam, not only do you solve the problem of cloning, but you also decrease the number of Plasmamen on station as only very serious (or weird) people will play as a race that has only a single life.

[Grazyn]

I was a plasmaman in an admin migration event and I definitely couldn't be cloned because I was burning inside the tube. Dunno if they fixed it.

[Sweaterkittens]

if they get injected through a port how could you explain syringe guns its hard to explain aim that good and being imune to syringe guns is a prety huge buff.

My understanding is that hardsuits can still get tagged by syringe guns, even though you can't inject someone through them, so an injection port would just allow close-up injections in addition to the normal vulnerability to being hit with syringe guns.

However, per a suggestion I received on IRC, that will likely be accomplished by removing the 'thickmaterial' quality from the suit, making it so that it can be injected/shot at with a syringe gun. An injection port is thematic, but this is likely an easier means to the same end. I certainly don't intend on them being immune to syringe guns.

Regarding the lore, while I don't vehemently dislike the "they used to be humans" version, I much prefer the lore where they're their own species. "I was caught in a plasma fire AND NOW I HAVE TRANSCENDED HUMAN FORM" aspect has always seemed a little too comic book-y to me. I did leave it intentionally vague, however, as some people really prefer the lore that they were humans once.

Make it Plasmamen cannot be cloned due to their unique physiology.
Bam, not only do you solve the problem of cloning, but you also decrease the number of Plasmamen on station as only very serious (or weird) people will play as a race that has only a single life.

That's certainly an interesting idea. However that would be a huge nerf, especially now that you can't apply patches after death, meaning they'd have to fall in the very small defibrillator window in order to ever be revived. I'm of the mindset that they have enough disadvantages as is, and while the intent is obviously to limit the number of Plasmamen on the station, adding a race that no one will want to play seems a little silly. Not that no one would ever play them, but they're quite vulnerable as is, between their inability to use first-aid kits (can't use bruise/ointment), constant necessity for internals, constant necessity for a suit, slow speed, and cloning difficulties.

I was bribed on irc to speak in this thread. As one of the original pushers, looking forward to plasmamen. Change them burning up in cloners though.
All in all. The dream may not be dead. Plasmabros get my +1.

Thanks for the support Lmwevil! I'm adding the cloning issue to the docket as well. THE DREAM IS NOT DEAD. DON'T LET YOUR DREAMS BE DREAMS.

[Sweaterkittens]

I was a plasmaman in an admin migration event and I definitely couldn't be cloned because I was burning inside the tube. Dunno if they fixed it.

They did not, although I was told you would not incinerate in the cloning pod. Kor helped me test that today and you do indeed die before cloning is complete. Thanks for bringing that up, updated the OP to reflect.

That event was pretty fun, would've been great had we not been bombed 30 seconds after arriving, haha.

[Jacquerel]

I think having one "permadeath" alien race wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[Xhagi]

As long as we can get the ability to ban people from being plasmamen if they get griefy with taking off suit and running around lighting people on fire, I'd like to see them given a try. As it stands, and as an admin, that's one of my main concerns with the race.

Also if they can't be cloned, you can still remove the brain and shove it in a humanized monkey to try and bring them back, although few doctors ever like to go to those lengths just to revive someone. Though picturing a doctor removing a brain from an on fire plasmaman is a pretty hilarious mental image.

[Cheimon]

Presumably it would be possible to have an all-plasma cloning room set up if you really wanted to clone them. I assume the easiest way to do this would be to set up a room in one of the science testing labs. You'd have to syphon out all the oxygen but if you could do that and then fill it with plasma then you'd create a safe environment for them.

You could even just create a break room normally for plasmamen that they could take their suits off in. Again, easiest place to shove it in box would be in the depths of science. Then you could build a cloner there if you wanted.

[Bawhoppennn]

I did suggest some things earlier, including the whole snowflake jumpsuit thing. My idea for it was to have you be able take your suit off and not immediately burst into flames, however you take x burn damage/time, while also giving a large amount of stam damage (not enough to down you) and keep applying that as fast as stam damage heals unless you're below a certain threshold of stam damage, that way you could actually switch suits, and security could search you without SNOWFLAKE EXOSUIT. As for cloning of course, you just need to have a plasma suit ready for them to put on. Have a spare plasmaman suit and jumpsuit in the arrivals locker room, EVA, and medbay storage.

Also I fucking love the idea of liquid plasma for blood way too much.
It would make so much sense, and the concept of extorting them for blood is amazing. It would also make sense that if they bleed and lose blood (which they may not be able to but would be good if they be able to) they can actually have blood healed, Just a normal IV drip with a special plasma bag would be fantastic.

My only problem is I have yet to come up with a good racist insult. Ligger of course lends itself so well, but I can't think of anything for plasmanerds. I was thinking something involving China-man maybe, but eh. We'll see what happens.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I'm totally for plasmamen if we disable the cloner/defib (What are you even defibrilating they're fucking skeletons man) for them, making them SS13: HARDMODE ONE LIFE

[Sweaterkittens]

As long as we can get the ability to ban people from being plasmamen if they get griefy with taking off suit and running around lighting people on fire, I'd like to see them given a try. As it stands, and as an admin, that's one of my main concerns with the race.

Also if they can't be cloned, you can still remove the brain and shove it in a humanized monkey to try and bring them back, although few doctors ever like to go to those lengths just to revive someone. Though picturing a doctor removing a brain from an on fire plasmaman is a pretty hilarious mental image.

I've asked in #coderbus and Remie said racebans would be very easy to implement! I don't want to see them just used for griefing and being shitty just as much as you guys don't.

I'm totally for plasmamen if we disable the cloner/defib (What are you even defibrilating they're fucking skeletons man) for them, making them SS13: HARDMODE ONE LIFE

I think having one "permadeath" alien race wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I will updating the OP soon with new information that will affect their ability to be defibrillated. Personally I think they die easy enough and are hard enough to bring back as is, but if this gets implemented then that's always subject to change! Especially if a lot of people would like to have them be ULTRAHARDMODE MLG SS13 SINGLE LIFE.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I still want them to be YOU GET ONE CHANCE: THE SPECIES personally. Maybe even go as far as to make them gib in a fireball when they die, so the HOP-line airtank huff bonanza gets fiesty.

[DaemonBomb]

Honestly, with the ways that people can get back into the game (Swarmers, Drones, pAIs, Xenos, Positronic Brains, ect) I could see a ONE CHANCE, MOM'S SPAGHETTI race being reasonable enough that it would still have some people playing as them while being harsh enough that they wouldn't be very popular.
Would they have brains? Could these brains be revived with the monkey trick/borging?

[Jacquerel]

Like essentially my feeling is that even people who hate seeing aliens around are less likely to reject what is essentially clicking a "Hardcore mode" button on your character select screen.

[Saegrimr]

So uh.. What happens if a changeling DNA stings a plasmaman, and then transform stings everybody?

[Gun Hog]

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!!

[Atticat]

oh man more snowflake races that are impossible to disguise as just what we need!!!!!

Except that they're arguably easier than humans to disguise as, since their suit completely obscures your face (and body) and no one will ever in their right mind ask you to take it off. So disguising as a Plasmaman is totally doable and quite effective!

You have me convinced; waiting for plasma men 2015

[Super Aggro Crag]

probably less annoying than lizards, fund them 100x

[Zilenan91]

So uh.. What happens if a changeling DNA stings a plasmaman, and then transform stings everybody?

The amount of snowflake code going into plasmamen...

[newfren]

I swear transform stings were removed cause someone was salty at meme changelings.

[Steelpoint]

I swear transform stings were removed cause someone was salty at meme changelings.

It was removed at a time when transform stings was the only thing Changelings could do, they were utterly incapable of doing anything else so they would hal and trans sting everyone as something to do.

[Grazyn]

oh man more snowflake races that are impossible to disguise as just what we need!!!!!

Except that they're arguably easier than humans to disguise as, since their suit completely obscures your face (and body) and no one will ever in their right mind ask you to take it off. So disguising as a Plasmaman is totally doable and quite effective!

You have me convinced; waiting for plasma men 2015

Nah plasmen rattle when they speak, so you can't really disguise as them

[Sweaterkittens]

Oh boy, I need to give this thread an update, sorry for the lack of replies!

You have me convinced; waiting for plasma men 2015

probably less annoying than lizards, fund them 100x

Thanks for the support!

Honestly, with the ways that people can get back into the game (Swarmers, Drones, pAIs, Xenos, Positronic Brains, ect) I could see a ONE CHANCE, MOM'S SPAGHETTI race being reasonable enough that it would still have some people playing as them while being harsh enough that they wouldn't be very popular.
Would they have brains? Could these brains be revived with the monkey trick/borging?

Like essentially my feeling is that even people who hate seeing aliens around are less likely to reject what is essentially clicking a "Hardcore mode" button on your character select screen.

I believe they do currently have brains, so you can revive them via monkey trick/borging. With the amount of support in favor of ONE SHOT ONE CHANCE, as well Remie saying the code to keep them from bursting into flames in cloning will suck, I believe we'll remove that from the docket, so dying will be much more permanent.

So uh.. What happens if a changeling DNA stings a plasmaman, and then transform stings everybody?

Changeling transform sting will not work when you have a Plasmamen's genome equipped, that was one of the first things brought up in the PR a while back. Funny enough, it's also disabled on other servers that have plasmamen, for the exact same reason, haha.

The amount of snowflake code going into plasmamen...

...is not that much. There will balance concerns that will require special coding, bust most of it will be simple and general coding. I've been discussing this in #coderbus for weeks to ensure that it won't be excessively snowflakey. There are even elements that I've cut due to there being no way to work around the snowflake code. If you have any productive suggestions regarding the code, I'd love to hear them.

[DaemonBomb]

oh man more snowflake races that are impossible to disguise as just what we need!!!!!

Except that they're arguably easier than humans to disguise as, since their suit completely obscures your face (and body) and no one will ever in their right mind ask you to take it off. So disguising as a Plasmaman is totally doable and quite effective!

You have me convinced; waiting for plasma men 2015

Nah plasmen rattle when they speak, so you can't really disguise as them

Jusssst like you can't disssguissse asss a lizardman because of the accent?

[newfren]

oh man more snowflake races that are impossible to disguise as just what we need!!!!!

Except that they're arguably easier than humans to disguise as, since their suit completely obscures your face (and body) and no one will ever in their right mind ask you to take it off. So disguising as a Plasmaman is totally doable and quite effective!

You have me convinced; waiting for plasma men 2015

Nah plasmen rattle when they speak, so you can't really disguise as them

Jusssst like you can't disssguissse asss a lizardman because of the accent?

You can fake a lizard accent, you can't fake:

Legitimate Plasmaman Rattles: hahaha try disguising as me shit head

Boned Traitor Says: fuck this isn't working at all

[Steelpoint]

Perhaps voice disguisers should take race into account, and alter your speech to properly match the race. Since right now it assumes your just a human and was never built with the assumption of non-human speech patterns.

[newfren]

And actually thinking about it I'm pretty sure lizards have hisses instead of says so that's out too.

[Grazyn]

Yeah I assume that's why he said "MORE snowflake races you can't disguise as", since you can't really disguise as a lizard either (hisses, tail sticking out etc.)

[M0nsoon]

Honestly from what I've seen with plasmaman shenanigans, I really want them in. Playing as some spooky tribal cave skeletons was fun for the round I played as one

[Sweaterkittens]

I have updated the OP, check out what's new!

@Newfren, Steelpoint, CosmicScientist: I tend to agree with Cosmic that not being able to disguise completely is a good thing. Looking like someone else is pretty effective already, and as he said, having the gas mask that sticks out of every helmet is generally more of a giveaway than anything, especially if you refuse to take it off when asked. That being said, it appears that one of our coders was working on a update for the Voice-changer Gas Mask that allowed you to select between Human/Lizard mode, so that you /could/ replicate the all-important "Urist McHuman hisses:" portion of speech. It appears that he left it somewhat unfinished, but I'm trying to get into contact with him to see if he's up to finishing the addition (as well as add a 'rattles' mode for Plasmamen), as it would resolve not only some of the gripes that people have with Plasmamen but also that many people have with Lizards.

@M0nsoon: Thank you for the support! Hopefully you'll get many more chances to play spooky tribal skellingtons before the year is out.

[Steelpoint]

Did I mention how Plasmamen remind of Quarians from Mass Effect?

Well they do.

They really need a unique name and not a generic X'men' attached to the end.

I mean, our Alien races boil down to a unoriginal first name and 'men' suffixed to the end.

[Sweaterkittens]

Did I mention how Plasmamen remind of Quarians from Mass Effect?

Well they do.

They really need a unique name and not a generic X'men' attached to the end.

I mean, our Alien races boil down to a unoriginal first name and 'men' suffixed to the end.

I am still trying to come up with a 'formal' name for them, like Unathi to Lizardpeople. I think Plasmamen is fine for casual reference but I'd like a formal name if for nothing else but their Lore. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them!

[DaemonBomb]

::::::::

Infernecrons
Ethanites (Cause plasma is Tritiated Ethanol)
Spooks
Toxii
Effigens
Plasmensch
Moonmen

Spoiler:

Bonyrs

[Deitus]

so now that plasmsamen are in the game, im a little hazy on the lore/backstory: are plasmamen considered "human?" i've seen it kind of both ways but the way i personally thought it was is that they were humans that suffered the fate of BECOMING a plasmaman, kind of like podmen/slimepeople. is this the deal with them or are they inhuman with all the trimmings of being nonhuman (no law 1/2 relevance, etc)?

edit: i kinda like spooks personally for a "formal" name. has a nice ring to it.

double edit: this is the new tgstation

dat hat tho

[Wyzack]

I thought spooks might work better as the new ligger because it is already an antiquated racial slur

[Sweaterkittens]

Would like to see sprites of the new jumpsuit and helmet combo in the OP when it's made.

I will absolutely throw it up here when it's made!

::::::::

Infernecrons
Ethanites (Cause plasma is Tritiated Ethanol)
Spooks
Toxii
Effigens
Plasmensch
Moonmen

Spoiler:

Bonyrs

I'm partial to Ethanites and Effigens, especially the thinking behind Ethanites.

so now that plasmsamen are in the game, im a little hazy on the lore/backstory: are plasmamen considered "human?" i've seen it kind of both ways but the way i personally thought it was is that they were humans that suffered the fate of BECOMING a plasmaman, kind of like podmen/slimepeople. is this the deal with them or are they inhuman with all the trimmings of being nonhuman (no law 1/2 relevance, etc)?

edit: i kinda like spooks personally for a "formal" name. has a nice ring to it.

Just to clarify, they're not in yet. But based on the fact that we've pretty successfully addressed the complaints of people who are against it, and seen a good amount of support, I'll probably start moving into the coding step very soon! Their lore varies from server to server; I've put up my own headcanon lore in the OP that has them as an actual nonhuman race, but it is purposefully vague as I know some people like the humans -> Plasmamen canon better. As far as their human status on /tg/ is considered, regardless of which lore you accept they will be nonhuman with all the trimmings of being nonhuman in regards to Asimov.

double edit: this is the new tgstation

dat hat tho

I see nothing wrong with this. now just to find someone to code and sprite that hat.....

[Luke Cox]

I was initially against this, but after reading the ideas about Plasmamen being the hardmode race, I like the idea. Make it so that Plasmamen cannot have their DNA modified, cannot be cloned, and combust/gib on death, and I'm sold.

[Deitus]

one thing that idk if it has been discussed: add plasma to medbay or somewhere on the station with fairly easy access to plasmamen can refill when they need to. this will probably be pretty difficult since if we make it too easy to get to it'l be a bum rush for two-bit tators or greyshits to get to and release, but medics attempting care of plasmamen may need it and the pmen themselves will probably need a refill or two during the duration of the shift, even if they use the standard minimum of 16kpa pressure (which is assume is the same for this? correct me if i'm wrong)

[PKPenguin321]

yeah i've decided this is okay as long as plasmamen are absolutely inferior to humans in every single way, that way only masochists will play them and we wont have to worry about any powercreep or balance issues

it'll still suck for changelings though

[Saegrimr]

yeah i've decided this is okay as long as plasmamen are absolutely inferior to humans in every single way, that way only masochists will play them and we wont have to worry about any powercreep or balance issues

it'll still suck for changelings though

>dna sting plasmaman
>transform sting people you want to die

You mean a buff to changelings, right?

[PKPenguin321]

yeah i've decided this is okay as long as plasmamen are absolutely inferior to humans in every single way, that way only masochists will play them and we wont have to worry about any powercreep or balance issues

it'll still suck for changelings though

>dna sting plasmaman
>transform sting people you want to die

You mean a buff to changelings, right?

that is a good point and it will definitely get transformation sting removed

[Deitus]

yeah i've decided this is okay as long as plasmamen are absolutely inferior to humans in every single way, that way only masochists will play them and we wont have to worry about any powercreep or balance issues

it'll still suck for changelings though

>dna sting plasmaman
>transform sting people you want to die

You mean a buff to changelings, right?

that is a good point and it will definitely get transformation sting removed

already been discussed in the op

[*]Changeling Transformation sting: Due to the potential to instanteously turn people into flaming skeletons that are suffocating, the changeling transformation sting will be unusable when a Plasmaman's genome is selected. You will still be able to transform into them normally.

[newfren]

Guys is the transform sting even in the game any more.

[DaemonBomb]

Honestly, DNA changing people into Plasmamen would be fucking hilarious and I wouldn't be mad if I got killed by being plasmamanned.

We should make it so that absorbing plasmamen adds a tiny bit of capsaicin to the Ling's system and gives a message about them being spicy.

[Zilenan91]

Nah plasmaman stinging would be ridiculous. I can guarantee you every single ling would get plasmaman DNA and sting EVERYONE and effortlessly murderbone.

[Shadowlight213]

>standard bio 100
>immune to viruses
>living counter to xenos due to being infinitely on fire
>immune to radiation
>immune no need for hunger
>immune to changeling flesh disguising as you
>only regular downside is slowdown
Jesus I know what I'm playing every single tine I get engineer. What next? Give the helmet inbuilt welding and flash protection?
Yeah, no. Your ideas are making me want roundstart plasmamen even less.

[Deitus]

Nah plasmaman stinging would be ridiculous. I can guarantee you every single ling would get plasmaman DNA and sting EVERYONE and effortlessly murderbone.

ITT: people dont read the OP

THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DEALT WITH. LINGS CANNOT USE TRANSFORM STING WITH PLASMAMEN DNA

seriously people cmon, i've even pointed this out before, are you guys just reading the titles and replying or what

>standard bio 100
>immune to viruses
because viruses always do so much damage, right?. they would actually be losing out since they couldnt get healing diseases
>living counter to xenos due to being infinitely on fire
they take damage while on fire, not to mention suffocating. this would be the equivalent of saying that lighting yourself on fire as human makes them op against xenos. its actually LESS viable with pmen.
>immune to radiation
see viruses, rarely if ever a danger to the crew 99% of the time, not to mention no superpowers
>immune no need for hunger
hunger is a minor inconvenience, barely even a point
>immune to changeling flesh disguising as you
false.
>only regular downside is slowdown
yeah, yknow, and the fact that they literally cannot be cloned or revived once dead. other than that, totally, mang.
Jesus I know what I'm playing every single tine I get engineer. What next? Give the helmet inbuilt welding and flash protection?
Yeah, no. Your ideas are making me want roundstart plasmamen even less.

THE CHERRYPICKING

IT HURTS

im legitimately losing faith here guys. please tell me you're just trolling me at this point

[Saegrimr]

Yeah dude but plasmaman stinging

Anyway the cloning/defibbing/patches problem is kind of not a point anymore if we're going with the pressure suit option.