Making the IED not useless

[Zilenan91]

The IED, now renamed Improvised Firebomb, is shit. It doesn't do any kind of damage to the station what so ever outside of mildly scorching some tiles, and said fire only lasts for a few seconds at the very best, sometimes not even setting people caught within it on fire for more than a second after it dissapears. It needs to be buffed because as it stands it actually does nothing. It either needs to be made into an improvised grenade that can blow up windows/tables, or it needs to have a much better, longer lasting fire effect so it actually has some sort of purpose, like setting things on fire and making the area it exploded hot, neither of which it currently does.

[PKPenguin321]

the problem with the IED is that it's literally a bomb that anybody can make en masse at basically any time, so for it to be balanced it either has to not be strong or have some other drawback such as RNG, and if it's weak it will be useless (as it is now) and if it's riddled with RNG it will be unused (because there are more reliable alternatives that wont blow your hands off).

i say we forgo reliability for power in this instance. as it is, IEDs are reliable but too weak to ever do anything. i propose we instead make them powerful again but riddle them with RNG, such as making them have a chance to go off in your hand when you prime them, setting you on fire and knocking you out.

[Zilenan91]

Oh yeah, so long as they have A use, instead of being useless.

[Scones]

consider how easy they are to make and how they are a tiny item and get back to me

[PKPenguin321]

consider how easy they are to make and how they are a tiny item and get back to me

but i just did didn't you read my post
oh wait no you're scones :^)

[lumipharon]

It's a soda can of welding fluid.
What do you expect?

[Scones]

consider how easy they are to make and how they are a tiny item and get back to me

but i just did didn't you read my post
oh wait no you're scones :^)

its like you think i write here for anything beyond garnering responses and making people angry over a really shitty game's forum

funnily enough even if i did read your post my answer would not change, but that is what i have come to expect from the very good player with valuable feedback, pkpenguin321

[Oldman Robustin]

Bad arguments from responders.

So many very strong items can be made super cheap.

I mean hello, SPEARS?!

Chuck a spear at a newcop and laugh as it embeds and they go crit within 30 seconds.

Stunprods

The abundance of spray bottles/water

Yet we're somehow worried that the firebomb actually having any use whatsoever would be bad?

Give it enough ticks for the fire to do ~25 damage if not extinguished early. Enough to leave a moderate amount of damage, but still easily countered by resist/extinguish.

[lumipharon]

That's what molotovs are for.

IED's got nerfed because tiders blew up wiring and pipes etc with them and it was hella gay.

[Zilenan91]

I'm getting back to you right now because they are literally useless. Have you used them? THey spew out fire for like half a second and then it's gone. The worst I've ever seen them do is set a fire for about 3 or 4 seconds, then after the area fire was gone, the people who became on fire were like that for about one more second and then they were put out. In total, five points of burn damage.

[Zilenan91]

Also molotovs only make fire on one tile and only accept alcohol as fuel. We need explosions, not molotovs which are actually pretty good on their own

[lumipharon]

Blame the fire change.
Before, a firebomb would keep you on fire forever, until extinguished.

Now most fire is super weak/goes out on it's own.
Except plasma fire - which is pretty much impossible to remove as it increases the fire stacks for every step you take. I've seen people run out of a plasma fire, extinguish themselves like 6 times and still fall into crit and die because the fire wouldn't go out.

[tuypo1]

we need a more robust fire system in general.

[DNS]

I don't think returning them to ye olde days is a good idea as they were borked as shit. IIRC the fire spread is random as hell and has no actual guarantee to hit a person you throw it at, maybe just make the fire pattern more consistent? No need to "fiddle with the rng" or anything like that. As lumi stated previously though, that's what Molotovs are for.

[MisterPerson]

Plasmamen seem boring to me because they're just slow humans that need to occasionally ask Atmos or Science for plasma tanks. That's all they're gonna wind up being. Which is granted better than lizards but still.

[Steelpoint]

As noted, IED's were nerfed not due to their physical damage but due to how much structural damage they could deal.

A few IED's could ruin the station's powernet's, suffice it to say it was being abused significantly to cut off power to area's of the station (mostly sec) as well as to break into the brig.

[newfren]

Plasmamen seem boring to me because they're just slow humans that need to occasionally ask Atmos or Science for plasma tanks. That's all they're gonna wind up being. Which is granted better than lizards but still.

MrPerson you need to have a good look around and reconsider some life choices.

[tuypo1]

As noted, IED's were nerfed not due to their physical damage but due to how much structural damage they could deal.

A few IED's could ruin the station's powernet's, suffice it to say it was being abused significantly to cut off power to area's of the station (mostly sec) as well as to break into the brig.

those are prety easy fixed though and you can do the same thing easily with a crowbar and wirecutters.

Admitidly i was never around for old ieds but it sounds like people not trusting enginering to do there job to me (or more likely enginering not doing there job)

[CPTANT]

Well they are completely useless now, I tried to trigger a welding fuel tank explosion by throwing an IED at it and it did absolutely nothing.

[tuypo1]

ok thats insane buff now.

[Helios]

I heard someone was planning on adding igniter support to welding tanks, wouldn't this bring back kind of what IEDs were used for when it came to station damage, at the cost of size and usefulness (instead of tiny, it's a welding tank that you have to drag which makes your intentions extremely clear), but back at the point of Revolutionaries best friend

[Zilenan91]

I mean, I can totally see the problem of IEDs blowing up all the wires in maint and shit and depowering entire departments, and that shouldn't really be a thing ever, but irregardless, IEDs are completely useless.

[invisty]

The solution to "bombs blowing shit up" is simple: You make them heavily anti-personnel/incendiary, and cause minimal structural damage to the station. That way they're about blowing up people, not blowing up the station that people depend upon so as to cause grief and escape liability for your actions.

Some sort of bomb-shrapnel simulation system that causes damage based on line-of-sight & window/wall penetration would be handy for bombs, IEDs and frag explosives, but I'm not sure if thats feasible to code, resource-wise.

[Jacough]

I was able to take someone out with an IED a couple of nights ago. It works alright if you use it as a sort of distraction/panic device
> set on fire with IED
> stay close enough that they can't really run somewhere safe to put it out but far enough that they can't easily run into you and set you on fire too
> wait for them to drop into crit or stop drop and roll
> if they do the latter beat the fuck out of them while they're down

[Zilenan91]

that's like dying to a tempgun.

[tuypo1]

i dont see the problem with structual damage but if people are that against it i agree just buffing its antipersonal ability is the right way to go.

It should definintly be able to blow welding fuel tanks though even if it has to be given extra code just for that.

[Takeguru]

I had a round a few weeks back where I tested these.

I had 3 of them go off in my hands and cause literally 0 damage.

Now, I dunno about you, but my hands aren't so robust as to ignore a flammable liquid being ignited in them once, let alone three times.

[callanrockslol]

that's like dying to a tempgun.

tempgun is hilariously good now. Freeze them and watch them die in panic, even flukes.