Catpeople

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:51 am #134964

Seriously, it just doesn't jive with the feel of the station at all and serves no gameplay purpose but making stealth traitors even more rare than they already are. If we're going to have it, they need to be non-sec/command staff only and treated by the AI as non-humans (the status of which is also totally unclear). If for some reason people REALLY wanna do it, just add costume items to a few places in maint.

Lizards work because they're ACTUALLY a race and kinda contribute to the feel of the station as the dregs of space society. The cat thing just makes no sense.

Sweaterkittens · Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:09 am

If I'm not misinformed, I do believe they suffer the penalties of being a "mutant race", and therefore are restricted from command roles as well as being considered non-human by silicons. I just don't think there's been much of any formal policy discussion regarding the latter, but I do believe that is the case.

If I may play devil's advocate, let me offer a few points in defense. The first is that anything new will get used quite a bit more right after it's released. It was/is the same way with Plasmamen, in that the first round they were enabled, a significant amount of players chose it. However that's not indicative of how many you'll see on average, once the initial excitement dies down. I have a strong feeling that it will be the same way with catpeople. Even just watching it over the course of a few days I've noticed a dramatic decline.

From a IC standpoint, 500 years in the future it's pretty likely that genetic modification would be commonplace or at least easily accessible. I would bet you real money that people are going to be making themselves catboys and girls as soon as that technology is available. That aside, from an OOC standpoint, this game is already... uh... "wacky", for lack of a better word. We have some more serious stuff, we have death and murder and violence, but we also have a corgi that's a mascot, clowns and mimes somehow employed on a top-secret paramilitary research station, wizards in SPAAAAAAAACE, and all sorts of other goofy shit. Yes, catpeople are /extra/ silly, but there it is.

I don't use cat ears, I personally don't like them, but if they're fun for other people, they're really not hurting anything. There's a lot of animosity in this community towards things that don't really affect the game, and there would be a lot less hostility here if we just cut each other some slack sometimes. If it starts seriously affecting gameplay I'll be right there with you asking them to be tweaked, but as they are now, let them have their fun.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:49 am #134978

Wait can people actually choose to be a cat now? Thought this was admin toggle only still.

onleavedontatme · Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:58 am

Saegrimr wrote:Wait can people actually choose to be a cat now? Thought this was admin toggle only still.

There were enabled briefly while lizards were disabled, they're gone again.

Admins still hand it out to people who pray most of the time though

Sweaterkittens · Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:07 am

I now feel incredibly silly for my lengthy reply now that I know they're gone. This is what happens when I don't play for a few days ;_;

Remie Richards · Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:21 pm

Sweaterkittens wrote:I now feel incredibly silly for my lengthy reply now that I know they're gone. This is what happens when I don't play for a few days ;_;

Kor wrote:Admins still hand it out to people who pray most of the time though

your points still stand.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:32 pm #134991

Lizard people I can tolerate as a Race since firstly their the only (currently) non-admin only selectable race andsecondly that they at least look somewhat alien like.

Catpeople are shit tier, they don't resemble anything alien looking at all and are more a sterotype of shitty ERP servers I occasionally see stories posted about on 4chan or digg SS13 threads.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:09 pm #134993

As a (former) AI player, I can tell you that trying to consider a cat-person as non-human is a terrible idea. It is for the same reason you do not door-crush someone with an arm blade; You cannot tell if it is real or not. It is fine if one of your borgs confirms for you via examination, but if that information is not present, treat them as human. I love nekomimi, and enjoy having them present even if I would not play one myself. Still, as an AI, do not treat a cat-person any differently, because it might just be an MD with the cat-ears item.

TheNightingale · Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:12 pm

If they're wearing headgear and have a tail, you know it can't be the fake cat ears, since they go on your head. Even so, you can't kill them just because they're nonhuman.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:29 pm #134998

TheNightingale wrote:If they're wearing headgear and have a tail, you know it can't be the fake cat ears, since they go on your head. Even so, you can't kill them just because they're nonhuman.

I am referencing situations in which a silicon is permitted (law 3, for example) or required (laws 1 and 2) to harm or kill a non-human. I have had a wizard break into my chamber before, wearing the hardsuit, and I kept him stunned until he spoke and confirmed his lizard status, allowing me to laser him.

A valid kill for a human player is also a valid kill for an AI under Asimov if non-human status can be confirmed by the AI or slaved borgs.

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:50 pm #135003

I always see them in command roles seemingly more often than anywhere else, so I don't know what's up with that. And like the AI player said, it NEVER actually changes their human status in practice because it's not as obvious as being a lizard.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:11 pm #135005

I thought the whole point of purrbation was to be insta-valid no matter what, which is the only current way to get catpeople?
I mean, an admin toggling it even tells the victim

Code: Select all

H << "You suddenly feel valid."

Remie Richards · Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:43 pm

Purrbation is the way 100% of catpeople players get their cat mutant parts, because the bug that let them spawn was patched, and once they've spawned they already have their role.

For example if I was to play Sibyl, I'd be in my usual HoP role, but if I prayed for Purrbation (or did it myself) I'd be a HoP Catperson, something that normally can't happen but does primarily because the config is turned off and I had to pray/VV myself midround.

Turning the config on would mean that admins wouldn't have to purrbation people (it'd go back to it's original purpose as a PUNISHMENT) and catpeople wouldn't show up in command roles (which they're intentionally locked from)

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:43 pm #135026

It would also mean you'd have a hard time figuring out which cats to valid.

Remie Richards · Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:51 pm

DemonFiren wrote:It would also mean you'd have a hard time figuring out which cats to valid.

None of them, Purrbation is punishment enough to those who don't want it.
and a gift to those who do.

Shadowlight213 · Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:48 pm

Cat people aren't just locked from command roles. The config locks them from any non civilian job. So they are far more restricted than any other race.

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:55 pm

meow meow meow

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:10 pm #135044

palpatine213 wrote:Cat people aren't just locked from command roles. The config locks them from any non civilian job. So they are far more restricted than any other race.

I don't know what the deal is but I've commonly seen at least one head be a catperson seemingly more often than not.

All it really does is ruin disguises. I don't understand why people really want it, but at least if we just make them items you can attach to your uniform they can be worn to impersonate them.

Doritos · Post by **Doritos** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:43 pm #135067

Free my nigga cat folk and put their restrictions on liggers. (Or, you know. Turn liggers off again.)

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:53 pm #135077

No, no, no, enslave the genetrash and free the glorious reptilian master race.

Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:53 pm

to be honest catpeople were better than lizards
maybe it was because even if you had ears you were still pretty much the same race so the whole 'racism rp' garbage wasn't as prominent

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:46 am #135127

So are cat people valid yes or no

Either way, from a completely objective standpoint, cat people are fucking awful. They're humans with a few extra parts, and because they look so similar it's incredibly hard to differentiate if you're killing a non-human or a regular human as a silicon if you're being rushed in any way. The ears/tail are just so small.

Also, if people are praying to be cat people in head positions, can people theoretically pray to be a lizard in head positions or would it not work that way.

Super Aggro Crag · Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:18 am

nekos are anime

Remie Richards · Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:43 am

Zilenan91 wrote: Also, if people are praying to be cat people in head positions, can people theoretically pray to be a lizard in head positions or would it not work that way.

race job restrictions happen at spawn, and only at spawn.
so whether you get to be Captain Miles Scales of the 51st battalion of Snowflake is down to the admin who answers (or ignores) your prayer.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:48 am #135147

I'd totally be the guy who goes Captain just to pray for lizard and be absolutely worthless outside of memes

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:08 am #135158

So are catpeople valid

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:11 am #135172

Incomptinence · Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:08 am

Force them to speak in scat like the hep cats they are deedoopdoobeedoobop.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:22 pm

Saegrimr wrote:No

It's a punishment role which literally tells the recipient they're valid, saeg.

TheNightingale · Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:23 pm

I think the "You suddenly feel valid" thing is a joke. Being inherently valid to kill FNR for having cat ears is silly, and nobody with common sense would actually take it seriously.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:58 pm #135258

So yeah I'm just gonna go with them being valid because there's so much confusion.

Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:01 pm

Saegrimr wrote:No

Agreed

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:28 pm #135264

It's hardcoded that they valid though. And other admins agree with this meaning without a headmin ruling, different admins are going to judge it differently and someone getting banned for validing a catperson with one admin and another admins saying it's ok, is shit. Headmin ruling pls.

onleavedontatme · Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:20 am

>zilenan arguing he should be able to kill cat people literally fnr after making threads saying its unfair that borgs can kill lizards

Nice

>theres so much confusion so I'll err on the side of killing other players for zero provocation while not antag

Keep it up man

>one admin saying its okay

Dorisdwarf isnt even an admin though

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:24 am #135290

To be fair most of what I said in OOC about catpeople wasn't serious, and I'm surprised the issue of them being valid or not hasn't been brought up until now with how they're hardcoded to get that message. It was inevitable for someone to just randomly kill catsec or Dante or whatever since they get put on purrbation every round, so I pushed the issue.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:25 am #135291

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:It's a punishment role which literally tells the recipient they're valid, saeg.

NikNakFlak wrote:It's hardcoded that they valid though.

usr << "Put [H] on purrbation."
H << "You suddenly feel valid."

Holy shit you're right.
I was just going with "No" because Zilenan was being a big baby about it and digging for any reason to get his valids on like one of two people who ever ask for it and actually attempt to roleplay.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:26 am #135292

I'm not the valid type, I don't go out and hunt people for no reason. I brought it up in OOC and here to get some kind of resolution about it before it became a problem.

onleavedontatme · Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:36 am

NikNakFlak wrote:It's hardcoded that they valid though.

The seperation bewteen the server and the codebase is absolute.

Super Aggro Crag · Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:05 am

zilenan is literally a retarded

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:07 am #135309

TheNightingale · Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:07 am

TheNightingale wrote:I think the "You suddenly feel valid" thing is a joke. Being inherently valid to kill FNR for having cat ears is silly, and nobody with common sense would actually take it seriously.

As above. If the "You suddenly feel valid" is meant sincerely, we need to take a good look at that code and see if it's something we want to keep around. Whatever happened to moving away from the valid playstyle?

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:12 am #135311

Are people forgetting they were added primarily to showcase the mutantpart system, and secondarily as a joke?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:13 am #135312

I mean, I dunno about you, but it must suck to ask to be put on purrbation only to get instantly murdered by someone. This needs clarification.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:15 am #135314

Zilenan91 wrote:I mean, I dunno about you, but it must suck to ask to be put on purrbation only to get instantly murdered by someone. This needs clarification.

"I asked to be made valid and then someone killed me"

????????????????????????????????

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 am #135315

Have you read the thread? There's a lot of confusion and differing statements on whether or not they're actually valid, and also no headmin statement for clarification.

I wouldn't mind if they were valid, to be honest, since catpeople are FAR more of a blizzard than lizards are, and it's also really hard to see the tail and ear sprites sometimes.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:50 am #135321

The entire concept of catpeople being "le valid xdd" is from hippie in the first place, which if you're the kind of person who has to run around trying to nitpick stupid reasons to kill people over to have any semblance of fun, is the perfect place for you to go. If admins want to mark someone as valid they'll set their maptext to valid or say it via a command report, there's no reason for us to steal some shitty meme from another server that directly represents the type of playstyle we don't want here.

I've literally never seen an issue pop up with cat people in game, not a single time. Why exactly would we want to suddenly screw over the people who enjoy catpeople as-is just to sate the shitty bloodlust of greyshirt validhunters that we don't even want here in the first place?

Edit: Not aiming this at anyone specific, just tired of the people who run around saying "cat people are valid" is already law because of how some other server handles things

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:52 am #135322

I don't want to screw people over for no reason. Literally the only reason I've brought it up so that there aren't problems in the future. There needs to be clarification or there WILL be problems down the road.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:04 am #135390

I'm talking about tsaricide, kor. Not Dorisdwarf.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:09 am #135393

Tsaricide hasn't posted in this thread...

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:57 pm #135460

The part of the community that bothered to post in the PR was split 50/50 among whether or not the PR should be merged. That is why I personally advocated to keep them as a "joke" option for admins, with a config option that would default to off. To make it easy for admins to use the joke, I added the "Toggle Purrbation" button. It was intended to be used on shitlers to declare them valid. I didn't really expect the button to be used on request, I probably was a bit daft at the time.

Anyway... That's still how catpeople seem to be used on this server: as a joke. And until the opinion of the community changes about them, it should stay that way.

The button could really use a better name though, Or better yet, a window that lets admins edit any of your accessory bodyparts.