Security Cameras 2.0
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
Security Cameras 2.0
So if you don't know, at one point sec got new camera system which basically worked similarly to AI eye. You could seemingly move around to watch stuff. It was really really fun. All I did the whole shift was sit in the chair and look for crime, and laugh at the misadventures of other officers on the radio. The fact is, that it was really rally powerful, possibly even a paradigm shift for sec. Simply monitoring secure areas was a breeze. Snooping on departments. Even tracking perps that were being chased by sec and relaying their position - so fun. Now I can see the perks of being a mall ninja.
So while I think this ability is really powerful, it's no secret that old cameras are used very rarely because of how clunky the whole menu system is. So bring the 2.0 back, maybe nerfing it a bit. Making the scrolling much slower. Or something.
So while I think this ability is really powerful, it's no secret that old cameras are used very rarely because of how clunky the whole menu system is. So bring the 2.0 back, maybe nerfing it a bit. Making the scrolling much slower. Or something.
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- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
- Byond Username: Dazbuzz
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
The terrible interface is needed. You are not meant to sit on cameras the entire round validhunting antags with your lightning-fast no-clip sight. Cameras are for checking a specific area. Tracking bad guys is the AIs job and even then its really damn strong.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am
- Byond Username: Gun Hog
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
I do not expect this to become permanent. I introduced a very powerful tool for security officers (stolen from Steelpoint) to have cameras in their helmets, and gave a link on the SS13 camera net so the warden could track an officer easily: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8439
It was heavily despised by anyone who was not a Security player, and eventually reverted: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10280
Even the author of the advanced camera system stated that it was never intended to be used by the crew: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8985
You should not hold any expectation of this becoming a permanent part of the game. If my camera helmet PR was reverted, then this much more powerful tool certainly would be as well.
It was heavily despised by anyone who was not a Security player, and eventually reverted: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10280
Even the author of the advanced camera system stated that it was never intended to be used by the crew: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8985
You should not hold any expectation of this becoming a permanent part of the game. If my camera helmet PR was reverted, then this much more powerful tool certainly would be as well.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
CosmicScientist wrote:sighAlex Crimson wrote:... Tracking bad guys is the AIs job...
It should really be security's job and no-one else's. At least the warden and the HoS wouldn't be on cameras all the time due to the requirements of their jobs and making it a slow scroll would cause enough struggle if not leaving it simply as a list of cameras.
- Davidchan
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Davidchan
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Given a better way to cycle cameras would be fine. Giving them AI eye would not be.
GIve them a new camera hud that can cycle back and forth to cameras, as well as jump-to command.
I'd even be in for a camera upgrade in that installing a scanning module (any tier) in a camera would allow said camera to monitor security records and declare when unknowns or wanted crew passed into that camera's line of sight. If security over did it and had every camera updated, a flood of messages in security chat, so they'd have to pick and choose which cameras to upgrade.
Higher tier scanners could give more detailed readouts. Advanced scanners could use facial recognition to try and locate crew and jump to the nearest camera to view them. Phasics could check for weapons (same way beepksy does) and call out anyone spotted wielding a weapon.
GIve them a new camera hud that can cycle back and forth to cameras, as well as jump-to command.
I'd even be in for a camera upgrade in that installing a scanning module (any tier) in a camera would allow said camera to monitor security records and declare when unknowns or wanted crew passed into that camera's line of sight. If security over did it and had every camera updated, a flood of messages in security chat, so they'd have to pick and choose which cameras to upgrade.
Higher tier scanners could give more detailed readouts. Advanced scanners could use facial recognition to try and locate crew and jump to the nearest camera to view them. Phasics could check for weapons (same way beepksy does) and call out anyone spotted wielding a weapon.
Law 0: Secborg din do nuffin.
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- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:23 am
- Byond Username: Neersighted
- Github Username: neersighted
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
I'm working on a better interface, based on a clickable minimap. Expect it whenever, its very incomplete and doesn't have an actual minimap yet (tgui needs minimaps first).Davidchan wrote:Given a better way to cycle cameras would be fine. Giving them AI eye would not be.
GIve them a new camera hud that can cycle back and forth to cameras, as well as jump-to command.
I'd even be in for a camera upgrade in that installing a scanning module (any tier) in a camera would allow said camera to monitor security records and declare when unknowns or wanted crew passed into that camera's line of sight. If security over did it and had every camera updated, a flood of messages in security chat, so they'd have to pick and choose which cameras to upgrade.
Higher tier scanners could give more detailed readouts. Advanced scanners could use facial recognition to try and locate crew and jump to the nearest camera to view them. Phasics could check for weapons (same way beepksy does) and call out anyone spotted wielding a weapon.
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- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
- Byond Username: Dazbuzz
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
We do not need half of Sec sitting in offices watching cameras all round just to powergame and catch criminals with them having little/no way to counter it. The AI is one person, and even then its a really damn strong tool to hunt down players. To the point where there have been calls to stop AI validhunting.CosmicScientist wrote:sighAlex Crimson wrote:... Tracking bad guys is the AIs job...
It should really be security's job and no-one else's. At least the warden and the HoS wouldn't be on cameras all the time due to the requirements of their jobs and making it a slow scroll would cause enough struggle if not leaving it simply as a list of cameras.
Cameras are not meant to be something you spend the entire round using. Even when this console was added it was intended to be exclusively for Abductors.
- Drynwyn
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:09 pm
- Byond Username: Drynwyn
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
There's a reason it's the AI's job- because it's really powerful, and the AI shouldn't be aligned completely with Security. It's a huge validhunting tool, and is far, far better at catching traitors trying to set up interesting (possibly non-harmful) strategies then it is catching Revolver McShootAndRun.CosmicScientist wrote:sighAlex Crimson wrote:... Tracking bad guys is the AIs job...
It should really be security's job and no-one else's. At least the warden and the HoS wouldn't be on cameras all the time due to the requirements of their jobs and making it a slow scroll would cause enough struggle if not leaving it simply as a list of cameras.
Giving Security the ability to easily track down anyone almost anywhere on the station is Not Good- Antagonists need freedom to move.
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- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
That's why I said it could be adjusted. Instead of free flow like AI, it could jump to adjacent cameras with a delay when you wasd. It seems like a good compromise. You could still surveil and monitor without having to scroll though the camera list, but not really follow moving individuals.
- Wyzack
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
- Byond Username: Wyzack
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
I belive one of our big coder types once said that game balance is never a good reason to not implement quality of life features. I wont say who, but i think his name rhymes with berry flan
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- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Except, of course, DISABLING THE FUCKING CAMERAS. Which is now incredibly easy, and does not give an alert. Have we really devolved as a playerbase to the point where antags are no longer expected to take the most basic precautions, and security is not expected to watch cameras (seriously, this is supposed to be a third of the Warden's job)?Alex Crimson wrote:We do not need half of Sec sitting in offices watching cameras all round just to powergame and catch criminals with them having little/no way to counter it.
- Davidchan
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Davidchan
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
\neersighted wrote:
I'm working on a better interface, based on a clickable minimap. Expect it whenever, its very incomplete and doesn't have an actual minimap yet (tgui needs minimaps first).
So basically what paradise already runs? Good luck getting it working with map rotation.
Law 0: Secborg din do nuffin.
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- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:23 am
- Byond Username: Neersighted
- Github Username: neersighted
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Its trivial. Not sure why you think this is hard.Davidchan wrote:\neersighted wrote:
I'm working on a better interface, based on a clickable minimap. Expect it whenever, its very incomplete and doesn't have an actual minimap yet (tgui needs minimaps first).
So basically what paradise already runs? Good luck getting it working with map rotation.
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- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
- Byond Username: Dazbuzz
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
If you do not like AI validhunting then nerf AI, dont buff Sec. Warden just sits in his office most of the time, the last thing he needs is a no-clip camera system. HoS should be leading his department, not sitting on cameras. Once again, it is a shit feature that will give way too much information to Security. At least the AI can be subverted, so Sec doesnt always trust it.
Disabling the cameras is not as easy as you pretend. It takes time to fuck around with its wires. time you probably do not have. You want people to disable every camera in the area before they do something bad? That isnt going to happen. It shouldnt need to happen.
Improve the camera interface if you need to. Make it easier to select the area you want to observe? Sounds good. But do not add an extremely overpowered camera console to Sec. Its fucking stupid, and anyone who thinks it would be balanced is an idiot or plays Sec.
Disabling the cameras is not as easy as you pretend. It takes time to fuck around with its wires. time you probably do not have. You want people to disable every camera in the area before they do something bad? That isnt going to happen. It shouldnt need to happen.
Improve the camera interface if you need to. Make it easier to select the area you want to observe? Sounds good. But do not add an extremely overpowered camera console to Sec. Its fucking stupid, and anyone who thinks it would be balanced is an idiot or plays Sec.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Player problem, not a code problem.Alex Crimson wrote:If you do not like AI validhunting then nerf AI, dont buff Sec.
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- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
- Byond Username: Anonmare
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
You don't need to fuck with wires anymore. DIsabling cameras is literally a two-click screwdriver + wirecutters and the camera is down with no alerts. Weld it with a welding tool and it doesn't even show up as deactivated on the network.Alex Crimson wrote: Disabling the cameras is not as easy as you pretend. It takes time to fuck around with its wires. time you probably do not have. You want people to disable every camera in the area before they do something bad? That isnt going to happen. It shouldnt need to happen.
Or multitool the camera to fuck up it's focus and reduce it's range to only a few tiles to steathily disable it.
But yeah, sec should not have an advanced camera console. Maybe a basic jump to function where if you hold down a key long enough it'll jump to the nearest camera in that direction but make it slow. I've been a warden on cameras and only checked t-comms and the Vault and caught antags in the act or evidence they've left behind (like a Rogue AI's bluescreened APC. It has the potential to ruin an antag's round if not handled very carefully.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
>two opposing factions that will not stop fighting until rendered incapable of doing soSaegrimr wrote:Player problem, not a code problem.Alex Crimson wrote:If you do not like AI validhunting then nerf AI, dont buff Sec.
>one faction has nonharmful stun weapons and cells to contain the enemy in
>the other faction is full on dedicated to murder, and has highly dangeorus weapons
>you have a mandate to stop them harming eachother
Code problem
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- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: TheNightingale
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Just adminhelp AIs who do that. Griff McGriffer would probably get lynched by Security, which is harmful.CosmicScientist wrote:I know that's why. That doesn't invalidate my desire to have it so only security look for miscreants and until the AI is plonked in the middle of the brig and given a stun baton I don't think the omniscient silicon should ever go around actively validhunting. Especially with what you mentioned, the non-harmful activities resulting in "#s Griff McGriffer has an emag and is stealing the blueprints". I also never said it's good to give this CCTV 2.0 to security, I said break its legs or shoot it in the back of the head.
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Not anymore, it was changed. It's been changed for a while. Screwdriver + wirecutters. Alternatively, hit it with a toolbox a couple of times, that works too. And yes, people absolutely should disable cameras in the area before they do bad things! This is seriously like Antag 101 tier.Alex Crimson wrote:Disabling the cameras is not as easy as you pretend. It takes time to fuck around with its wires. time you probably do not have. You want people to disable every camera in the area before they do something bad? That isnt going to happen. It shouldnt need to happen.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Screwdriver and wirecutters disables the camera entirely, without giving an alarm to the AI. It's obvious to people who see it though. You can do this with a weapon, too, but that notifies the AI.
Screwdriver and multitool damages the camera's focus, making it only see one tile, without giving an alarm to the AI or being noticeable by people who see it.
An EMP knocks out the camera for a while, only giving the AI an alarm when it reactivates (so if you disable it while it's EMPed, the AI won't know). It's very noticeable to people who see it, though.
Screwdriver and multitool damages the camera's focus, making it only see one tile, without giving an alarm to the AI or being noticeable by people who see it.
An EMP knocks out the camera for a while, only giving the AI an alarm when it reactivates (so if you disable it while it's EMPed, the AI won't know). It's very noticeable to people who see it, though.
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Don't mind me mr chemist while I go into your office and cut the camera, then cut the cameras in the corridor above and behind it, as well the as cameras in medbay as well.bandit wrote:Not anymore, it was changed. It's been changed for a while. Screwdriver + wirecutters. Alternatively, hit it with a toolbox a couple of times, that works too. And yes, people absolutely should disable cameras in the area before they do bad things! This is seriously like Antag 101 tier.Alex Crimson wrote:Disabling the cameras is not as easy as you pretend. It takes time to fuck around with its wires. time you probably do not have. You want people to disable every camera in the area before they do something bad? That isnt going to happen. It shouldnt need to happen.
Oh, ok, I've cut all 8 cameras that can see me or where I have to go to leave, ok, time to murder you now.
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Yeah, if you cut a camera it gives the ol' BIG RED MESSAGE to alert anybody that might happen to be walking by. Not to mention that if a sec officer at one of these consoles sees that medbay's cameras are all seemingly deliberately cut, they will come and attack you regardless of their ability to see you beforehand.
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- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:51 am
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Sec cameras should be used to check on important areas, not to big brother on the crew.
Ocassionally finding a crime in progress is fine, but don't allow a desk jockey officer to become the all seeing eye.
Maybe the sec camera system was gimped for so long for a reason?
Minor QoL improvements? Sure!
AI 0.5? Hell no!
Ocassionally finding a crime in progress is fine, but don't allow a desk jockey officer to become the all seeing eye.
Maybe the sec camera system was gimped for so long for a reason?
Minor QoL improvements? Sure!
AI 0.5? Hell no!
- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
- Byond Username: Anonmare
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
EIther cut them while the Chemist is out or kill the chemist when he's not in chemistry. And again, you can multitool the cameras which makes it a hard thing to uncover unless you get a multitool and try to mess up the camera focus yourself. Multitooling doesn't give a message (I think) or make a *snip* noise either. Anyone asks what you're doing, just say you're fixing the cameras and snip them twice with the wirecutters before pulsing them with the multitool so people don't think it's that odd.lumipharon wrote:Don't mind me mr chemist while I go into your office and cut the camera, then cut the cameras in the corridor above and behind it, as well the as cameras in medbay as well.
Oh, ok, I've cut all 8 cameras that can see me or where I have to go to leave, ok, time to murder you now.
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- Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:24 pm
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
the chemist is a bad one really because chemists in general are impossible to fucking kill.
unless they are a tator, they will rarely leave medbay which is absurdly impossible to attack except by the most unsubtle and aggressive ways, and if the chemist is a tator and he leaves you'll probably die anyway because chemistry well executed is a synonym for 'godhood'
there are a few jobs like that, but chemistry is probably the worst. in this case the cameras probably don't even really matter, because there will be a MD, the CMO and some random greyshirts getting bruises healed at any given minute that will scream just as loudly.
unless they are a tator, they will rarely leave medbay which is absurdly impossible to attack except by the most unsubtle and aggressive ways, and if the chemist is a tator and he leaves you'll probably die anyway because chemistry well executed is a synonym for 'godhood'
there are a few jobs like that, but chemistry is probably the worst. in this case the cameras probably don't even really matter, because there will be a MD, the CMO and some random greyshirts getting bruises healed at any given minute that will scream just as loudly.
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- Confined to the shed
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
You can do it though. Just take the payload out of a syndicate bomb somewhere in maint, attach a signaller, toss, ping, boom, gib.
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- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Or just don't use a camera-based method for assassinating a chemist. Not every method has to be good for every objective, Christ.
Also if all the medbay cameras were out I'd be more likely to think medbay itself was rogue, not visitors to medbay.
Also if all the medbay cameras were out I'd be more likely to think medbay itself was rogue, not visitors to medbay.
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Shodansbreak
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Can we make Camera taps have the AI scrolling ability?
- Smeller
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:40 am
- Byond Username: Smeller
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
Why can't we just make it high-level RnD circuit board
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Security Cameras 2.0
admin items in R&D is the new memeSmeller wrote:Why can't we just make it high-level RnD circuit board
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- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
- Byond Username: Anonmare
Re: Security Cameras 2.0
>Giving R&D even more powerSmeller wrote:Why can't we just make it high-level RnD circuit board
Let's not
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