Goon stock market / Goof Economy

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:17 pm #159632

PR here: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/15921

Feedback away.

Alex Crimson · Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:44 pm

Seems neat. However i, as QM, would not want people fucking up my stocks. Seems like you are just going to get people who make tons of points, then flood Cargo with an insane amount of supply crates, unless its balanced really fucking well.

And lore-wise why would Cargo have something like this? Wouldnt finances be more of a Lawyer/Stockbroker thing?

This does however offer a chance to add loans, and debt collecting Syndicate squads.

Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:09 am

Seems pretty awesome so far, I'm hyped for it. I'd really like it the QM could freeze or set aside funds for cargo shipping, so you don't constantly have people using up the last of your funds when you're actually trying to order something.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:38 am #159655

It's great fun to play stockbroker with other players, discussing what you're trading and telling each other what's going well. As an update, excellent stuff.

Four consoles is probably a bit over the top, given that if you really want, multiple people can use the same one. The other issue is that if you can't tell who's done what, then it's very easy for one person to fuck up the community stock. The AI could do this too, if it went rogue, just buying lots of crap options, which isn't necessarily that fun. If you've got a limited pool, it'd also be pretty irritating for the AI to just randomly buzz in and spend all your points.

Feature wise, a list of who traded, when, and for what price would be pretty good. I'm not even sure why goon doesn't have this.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:59 am

Goof Goon Stock seems like a neat idea.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:34 pm #160373

I think the stock borrowing options are a bit overkill.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:18 pm #160426

Here's whats going on with stockborrowing from what I can tell from logs on the stock computers.

Roundstart: You guys make about 15K credits from exports.
You guys then drop it on a security deposit to borrow some stocks.
Now, what you're expected to do is sell the stocks, then rebuy them at a much lower price when it drops, and keep the difference.
Basically shortselling.
The problem is you guys just order a shitton of crates with the sold stocks and then forget that you borrowed those stocks. Then, when the broker collects and realizes you dont have shit for money or stocks, you end up like 30K in the red and cargo is bankrupt for the rest of the round.

In short: pay back your loans nerds

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:41 pm #160430

iamgoofball wrote:Here's whats going on with stockborrowing from what I can tell from logs on the stock computers.

Roundstart: You guys make about 15K credits from exports.
You guys then drop it on a security deposit to borrow some stocks.
Now, what you're expected to do is sell the stocks, then rebuy them at a much lower price when it drops, and keep the difference.
Basically shortselling.
The problem is you guys just order a shitton of crates with the sold stocks and then forget that you borrowed those stocks. Then, when the broker collects and realizes you dont have shit for money or stocks, you end up like 30K in the red and cargo is bankrupt for the rest of the round.

In short: pay back your loans nerds

Debts don't matter if those dumb-ass motherfuckers don't send anyone to collect 'em.

ShadowDimentio · Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:32 pm

Spawn angry debt collectors that beat up cargo guys if they get too far in the red.

ExplosiveCrate · Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:42 pm

Speaking as a miner, the resource shortages actually make mining a bit more fun, since they add an objective besides "get stuff for RnD and hope for a hyper accelerator". I mean, it might actually not be as fun after a while but that's what I've noticed so far. Also makes the cargo chat more lively when you have a couple of techs and the QM screaming about how the economy is dying.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:56 pm #160488

If we are revamping cargo please half the cargo shuttle timer.

The 2 minutes wait adds nothing and is only annoying.

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:11 pm #160491

Are there any predictable patterns or trends in stock movement?

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:26 pm #160499

CPTANT wrote:If we are revamping cargo please half the cargo shuttle timer.

The 2 minutes wait adds nothing and is only annoying.

Cargo shuttle now takes a handful of seconds to arrive, dunno if it's part of the test or what

Post by **oranges** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:03 am #160534

Goof said he was going to reduce the cargo time

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:30 am #160552

Yeah, I dropped cargo arrival/departure time to 15 seconds. You can make a round trip from cargo to CC to cargo within 30 seconds now.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:26 am #160578

As others have said, there needs to be some sort of severe consequence for bankrupting cargo. This would also make financial sabotage a viable strategy for traitors.

ExplosiveCrate · Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:05 am

Give the admins a notification so they can choose to fuck with cargo in creative ways if they want, and if not have central beam out random pieces of equipment. Don't pay the bills? Say goodbye to that server, RnD.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:34 am #160633

Attach a dollar value to machine items on the station, from pens to the expensive bomb suit the RD made for himself.

If Cargo gets too far in the Red then the Captain has to find a way to pay back the debt, he will then have to take a scanner and scan enough items to balance out the budget.

The Captain and Security can also find other ways to balance the budget, such as cutting people's paycheck (cargo first), installing unnessecary laws to raise the budget (making Beepsky fine anyone for running in the public hallways) or otherwise "persuading" security to offer financial settlements as a alternative to server brig sentences, as well as encourage security action on minor crimes to increase station income.

If the debt is not eventually payed then Central Command will remove all the funds from the Head's of Staff's personal back accounts, cut their paycheck's in half and confiscate certain random items (non-traitor objective items) at random via bluespacing (usually Head items).

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:15 am

Broken

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:28 am #160647

this is probably mekhi doing his gig but you don't even have to do this, 3 full stacks of bananium at 6k+ each gives you 800k+ points, you can then buy enough null crates to drown the station in syndie items

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:29 am

3 full stacks of bananium is a bit rare than metal+glass

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:31 am #160649

Raiding the clown shuttle is faster than building a protolathe+console+research and you only need to do it once

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:31 am #160650

You can get a shitton of it if you go to the clown shuttle.

InsaneHyena · Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:08 am

Broken

Never played cargo with goofchanges (I'm too dumb to understand stocks), so unsure what is broken on this picture. If syndicate items are available to cargo, why the fuck is this, fix this shit immediately. If the problem is the amount of null crates cargo can get after emagging the console, then I don't understand your issue with it. Before gooncargo I've repeatedly drowned the station in syndicate items thanks to sending solid plasma to Centcomm.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:23 am #160671

Kor wrote:Broken

You're welcome papa goofball

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

It's a cool idea but interacts badly with null crates.

I think crazy shit like importing billions of syndicate items or going bankrupt should just give license to admins to bring down the event hammer. ERT reposession crews, angry undersupplied syndicates trying to steal their equipment back.

Maybe if you buy out a particular item in cargo too much the price rises as you buy out stock and demand is higher. The more you buy the more it'll cost, the more you sell the less it's worth.

Basic market mechanics would solve these problems.

Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:31 am

Kor wrote:

Broken

Broken in the best way

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:03 pm #160687

Cargo actually has a reason for existing.

>broken

Anyway, it would be nice if there were some very cool but very expensive items cargo could order so they have a goal to work forward to.

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:16 pm

I don't think you guys understand, I mean broken as in "selling one stun revolver is enough points to buy materials to print 100 more stun revolvers" broken. Infinite resources. If it's not syndie crates, it's dozens of swat suits and autorifles.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:10 pm #160704

It seems odd how you could of added a stock market without even thinking about a basic supply/demand system to prevent this in the first place.

Stickymayhem · Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:19 pm

MMMiracles wrote:It seems odd how you could of added a stock market without even thinking about a basic supply/demand system to prevent this in the first place.

It's goofball.

Spoiler:

Post by **Atlanta-Ned** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:00 pm #160757

I like it, I just wish the announcements didn't come in at centcom level.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:09 pm #160762

shipping datums are unlinked from stock market right now, it's a separate feature

don't worry, I plan to balance out the problems with exporting being 2good

Incomptinence · Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:04 pm

Guess we need to get rid of raw materials deliveries to station. Wouldn't really be profitable to ship them to a mine anyway which the station in part is.

Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:08 pm

Stickymayhem wrote:Maybe if you buy out a particular item in cargo too much the price rises as you buy out stock and demand is higher. The more you buy the more it'll cost, the more you sell the less it's worth.

Basic market mechanics would solve these problems.

do this
prices can rise more or less depending on the product
for example, null crates can rise exponentially

John_Oxford · Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:11 pm

space gun companies (kushmaster reeeemington kek-tec block) traded on the stock market when?

EDIT:
how about when the station reaches a certain debt ammount (-100000 or something) a "recovery" team is sent to the station, which is really just a set of nanotrasen nuke ops in steath gear who wish to detonate the nuclear device in order to claim insurance on the lost station, claiming it was the syndicate.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:35 pm #160879

Null crates are fine. Send events in. It'll be a challenge the crew, by ordering all the equipment, are consenting to take.
Also as for the firearm problem
If you make it require pins to count as a sucessful export that'd cap cargo points severly as pins need to either be printed with diamonds or ordered
And I mean firing pins as in non testing locked pins

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:33 am #160923

I'll handle the shipment rewards on request from Kor.

You no longer get points. Shipping a gun will make gun stocks go up in price by an amount based on the guns sent.

Same goes for seeds and foods. You ship a gun, and the gun stocks will go up a percentage, although it is entirely possible the stock crashes more than it goes up.

And you can't ship guns now. New centcomm rules due to a rogue Centcomm quartermaster. Science must make assembly lots to ship them instead.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:50 am #160927

By all means add fictional companies, but don't give them meme names like kushmaster. That would be as silly as having a gun called fk-69 (get it, because lol sex).

Incomptinence · Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:28 am

John_Oxford wrote: how about when the station reaches a certain debt ammount (-100000 or something) a "recovery" team is sent to the station, which is really just a set of nanotrasen nuke ops in steath gear who wish to detonate the nuclear device in order to claim insurance on the lost station, claiming it was the syndicate.

Nono don't send ops just send heavily armed repo men who "reposes" (delete/teleport) items, sillicons, machines and literally the shirt off your back to pay off the debt.

TankNut · Post by **TankNut** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:39 am #161005

John_Oxford wrote:how about when the station reaches a certain debt ammount (-100000 or something) a "recovery" team is sent to the station, which is really just a set of nanotrasen nuke ops in steath gear who wish to detonate the nuclear device in order to claim insurance on the lost station, claiming it was the syndicate.

If we let cargo call in nuke ops then I have a feeling that we'll suddenly see a large increase in the amount of rounds where cargo 'accidentally' bankrupts itself.