Secborg removal test poll

[Cik]

Bottom post of the previous page:

1. stun it and kill it
2. die
3. run

you are really oversimplifying this, though. humans have a lot of weaknesses and there are a lot of ways to stun them, and in a lot of cases the "kill it" part is more than just bashing them or whatever. have you forgotten what game this is? this is THE game for creative murder, but when it comes to borgs there is relatively no creativity involved.

you could, just off the top of my head:
1. place a water tile in maintenance, bait a sec officer into chasing you by holding out an esword or something, then throw him out a nearby airlock before he gets up (this can't be done to borgs)
2. shock a door, convince them to go through it, then when they get shocked by it grab them and slam them into the door repeatedly until crit or death (can't be done to borgs, and yes i have done this, it's not just a hypothetical)
3. be a doctor and when a sec officer comes for help you KO them with chems/poison them (can't be done to borgs)
4. get really lucky and stun an officer by knocking them down via a brute weapon (can't be done to borgs, they don't get knocked down or KOed)
5. disarm a sec officer of his baton and cuffs, stun him, and cuff him. then just do whatever you want with him (can't be done to borgs)
6. have an honorable fistfighting-only duel (can't be done with borgs)

hopefully you see my point by now friend

>secborg
>no counter

ion rifle: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death
EMP grenade: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death
flash: melee instant death
laser pointer: ranged annoyance/instant death
flashbang: full screen instant death
EMP flashlight; basically instant death

this isn't even mentioning non-traitor tools, like building a robotics console and maint and hitting the "explode" button on every borg on the station which will remove at least some of them permanently because no one will fin dthe brains. all antags can deal with borgs and relatively easily. this is tantamount that complaining that shadowlings take different tools to deal with than traitors. that's the point, dummy.

not to mention they are far from impossible to shoot the death. lure down corridor and put some revolver into them and they're toast.

[Zilenan91]

You gotta shoot secborgs 4 times with a revolver to kill them, they gotta shoot you three times and they don't slow down the more hurt they get.

[PKPenguin321]

snip

>secborg
>no counter i never said this, reread my post

ion rifle: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death there is 1 on the station and it's guarded by sec because it's in the armory
EMP grenade: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death absolutely requires TCs (or metastation/a derelict trip), only available to traitors/nuke ops
flash: melee instant death requires melee range. if you're already in combat you're cucked (any secborg knows how to walk away from you and shoot), and if you flub the chainflash the borg can run away ezpz because no slowdown from damage
laser pointer: ranged annoyance/instant death stupid hard to aim/almost as hard to come across as an ion rifle (like seriously has anyone ever actually done this)
flashbang: full screen instant death requires you to have a flashbang (aka break into sec/kill an officer) and have flash protection (all of it is contraband too meaning you're basically KoS)
EMP flashlight; basically instant death requires TCs, only available to traitors/nuke ops, has same melee flaws as a flash + potentially fewer charges

this isn't even mentioning non-traitor tools, like building a robotics console and maint and hitting the "explode" button on every borg on the station (requires RD access or higher, you either have to be them or kill them) which will remove at least some of them permanently because no one will fin dthe brains. all antags can deal with borgs and relatively easily. this is tantamount that complaining that shadowlings take different tools to deal with than traitors. that's the point, dummy.

not to mention they are far from impossible to shoot the death. lure down corridor and put some revolver into them and they're toast. see what zilenan said about secborgs and their lack of damage slowdown + their ranged 3 hit stun. also a revolver is practically the majority of your TCs, which again leaves little room for more creative play

not to mention the things you listed are the only counters to borgs in the entire game (aside from waiting for their cells to run out which i have never seen happen in my thousands of hours playing). the things i listed about humans which do not work against borgs are only a few of the practically infinite ways to fight a human, and believe it or not, that variety is actually really fun. borgs have very little counterplay, which is fine if they're more passive modules like janitor or engi, but terrible if they're designed for validhunting, and incredibly unfun to play against.

i never said borgs had no counters, by the way. that was never my point. good job with the reading comprehension.

[Incomptinence]

I will say that borgs need to suffer more consequences to damage ever since bleeding came in for humans.

Lodging spanners in their works, rupturing their coolant/lubricant that sort of thing. You can make a human baddie bleed and if he isn't a walking pharmacy or a linger you know running to med is in his future plans. Borgs are a bit too simple at present.

[Zilenan91]

How about we all stop talking about secborgs and just move on with our lives

[Oldman Robustin]

Yea their chief issue is the disabler spam.

Endlessly frustrating when a secborg comes after you and is going to spray the entire room/hall with disabler beams and only needs 2 to hit before you're slowed and it becomes impossible to escape.

[ShadowDimentio]

Yea their chief issue is the disabler spam.

Endlessly frustrating when a secborg comes after you and is going to spray the entire room/hall with disabler beams and only needs 2 to hit before you're slowed and it becomes impossible to escape.

That's more a problem with disablers than secborgs

I wouldn't have objected to tweaking the secborg disabler whatsoever because I agree it's pretty dumb and I doubt many others would disagree.

[ShadowDimentio]

ion rifle: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death
EMP grenade: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death
flash: melee instant death
laser pointer: ranged annoyance/instant death
flashbang: full screen instant death
EMP flashlight; basically instant death

Addendum for non-traitor counters

(Shadow)ling: Sonic screech
Cult: EMP talisman, artificers
Wiznerd: Disable technology, magic missile, and nearly every other attacking spell
Xenos: Xeno spit, your damn claws
Ninjas: EM Burst, your sword
Blob: You're a fucking blob why do you care
Revenant: Malfunction
Others: Literally any gun

Antags without borg counters: Ayys, swarmers

You're hard pressed to find an antag that can't readily fuck a borg's life up even with basic equipment. The meme that BORGS HAVE NO COUNTERS!!! needs to stop.

[GeeElAge]

Antags without borg counters: Ayys, swarmers

You're hard pressed to find an antag that can't readily fuck a borg's life up even with basic equipment. The meme that BORGS HAVE NO COUNTERS!!! needs to stop.

Swarmer traps stun borgs the same way flashes stun them.

[Scott]

You gotta shoot secborgs 4 times with a revolver to kill them, they gotta shoot you three times and they don't slow down the more hurt they get.

How unrobust.

[onleavedontatme]

My decision had nothing to do with balance, I'm just tired of the blurred line between the silicons and security.