Farm yard animals & Botany (+Ranching)

[FantasticFwoosh]

Derivative of a merge of this PR slipped in as a test no longer than 2 hours from 11:50 AM GMT, i believe the current to be the working version, this is the latest on the PR list of this https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16273

Im all for more animal interaction and to some extent farming. I think the system is nice but all the components dont fit together.

Where to start.

> Animals are not really defined and are given random ass funky attributes at start - Having basic animals and then working up rather than these cooky variations would be better. I can already think of solutions in using mutagen to alter the next generation or specific botanical/culinary remedies.
> Raptors are shameful chocobo ripoffs, ridable is neat but all the same we were expecting jurassic park, not final fantasy. They dont even have scales and some of the code is copy and pasted pretty much (goat anger for instance on red chocobos) they also die extremely quickly. Not good for eating or fighting, and the eggs dont even work. (see below)
> Incubators are flat out broke, nobody can understand whether they are autonamous or require heating and lighting as additonal requirements (also numerous bugs surrounding it such as eggs being eaten by the machine if multiples are loaded)
> Trays are ugly and need respriting rather than lazily taking old hydro sprites and making one half yellow
> Room to accomodate more animal farming is welcome under the scheme (bear ranching/carp ranching etc/xenobio animal ranching/spliced scientific experiments perhaps)
> Nests probably need a mechanization re-haul or a recipe to make out of straw (dried wheat)
> R&D probably need designs to make equipment and R&D levels mapped out
> Currently it trashes up the botany space with animal vomit (seriously where is that coming from, lovely for flypeople but where and why are animals puking EVERYWHERE) and animals. Most botanists are either too invested with it (despite being broken) or find it a nuisance.
> Illegal space puppy farms are real (no more off screen shenanigans i hope for mini-ian enthusiasts)
> Could be great boon to leather production to cut down on the requirements for monkey meat/leather for objects (and scales for raptors)
> More xeno facehugger targets

Just a summary.

[Incomptinence]

My first experience with this at goof's urging to go botonist involved an immediate rainbow cow attacking everyone in botony in a goat rage in rapid succession until it killed a burning rooster who turned to ashes then beat me into crit when I tried to stop it making chickens extinct. Then a female cow and a female chicken somehow mated and she laid eggs that didn't hatch until admins forced them to (same following rounds too). In fact chicken on cattle seems to be the most likely pairing as I never got any calfs since the chicken hussy hogged the bull in the next round while the rooster puked so much we had beakers full.

My verdict is non-functional and pointless.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Just to recap - This was a test merge made on the basis of 'We are maintainers lel' by goof and rumie. Without evident testing.

[newfren]

It clogs up botany with things that are not botany and has replaced the hydro trays that I liked using most because noone could see that I was growing deathnettles and kudzu from just walking past.

Maybe when it's functional I'll enjoy it.

[oranges]

Just to recap - This was a test merge made on the basis of 'We are maintainers lel' by goof and rumie. Without evident testing.

Steady on lad

A) goof isn't a maintainer
B) maintainers can't test merge changes, only people with remote can (headmins plus a few trusted other gamemasters/exheadmins)

[Zilenan91]

iamgoofball maintainer when

He'll make this codebase great again

[FantasticFwoosh]

Just to recap - This was a test merge made on the basis of 'We are maintainers lel' by goof and rumie. Without evident testing.

Steady on lad

A) goof isn't a maintainer
B) maintainers can't test merge changes, only people with remote can (headmins plus a few trusted other gamemasters/exheadmins)

I wont quote because i can't quote (because ill get lynched and bannu) but its there on the PR, (9th one down on the conversation list from the top) unless i've misinterpreted and skewered that fact.

Its still a shamefully rushed and underdone piece of work in that it warranted having to having submitter of the content (Im not a github savvy person) try to buxfix it to high hell despite goof forwarding it to the pull requests. The buxfixes are in the PR but obviously its a little late.

[oranges]

I wont quote because i can't quote (because ill get lynched and bannu) but its there on the PR, (9th one down on the conversation list from the top) unless i've misinterpreted and skewered that fact.

If you're referring to this comment, then you have misinterpreted it, he's responding to this comment by Yotaxp

Yotaxp:Also, since when do we allow parent_type shenanigans?

[FantasticFwoosh]

I wont quote because i can't quote (because ill get lynched and bannu) but its there on the PR, (9th one down on the conversation list from the top) unless i've misinterpreted and skewered that fact.

If you're referring to this comment, then you have misinterpreted it, he's responding to this comment by Yotaxp

Yotaxp:Also, since when do we allow parent_type shenanigans?

Whoops. Well it just shows i wouldn't have put it out of my mind to happen anyway. It's still frustrating to work with in botany.

[iamgoofball]

> Animals are not really defined and are given random ass funky attributes at start - Having basic animals and then working up rather than these cooky variations would be better. I can already think of solutions in using mutagen to alter the next generation or specific botanical/culinary remedies.

Yeah, this is planned.

> Raptors are shameful chocobo ripoffs, ridable is neat but all the same we were expecting jurassic park, not final fantasy. They dont even have scales and some of the code is copy and pasted pretty much (goat anger for instance on red chocobos) they also die extremely quickly. Not good for eating or fighting, and the eggs dont even work. (see below)

Raptors were the inspiration for animal farm. They're called raptors because of copyright reasons.

The goat anger has been turned into the Aggressive trait. Red raptors are hostile carnivores, and as such have the aggressive trait. No copypasta was involved. You're supposed to use red ones as combat rides, because if someone hits them trying to hit you, they'll assist in the combat against the person, while you're also able to attack the person. They'll also eat the corpses of their victims if they're hungry enough too, free body disposal.

> Incubators are flat out broke, nobody can understand whether they are autonamous or require heating and lighting as additonal requirements (also numerous bugs surrounding it such as eggs being eaten by the machine if multiples are loaded)

Incubators are hella bugged, yeah. It'll get fixed.

> Trays are ugly and need respriting rather than lazily taking old hydro sprites and making one half yellow

Sprites are mostly WIP codersprites.

> Room to accomodate more animal farming is welcome under the scheme (bear ranching/carp ranching etc/xenobio animal ranching/spliced scientific experiments perhaps)

It's gonna get its own room above botany in the final edition.

> Nests probably need a mechanization re-haul or a recipe to make out of straw (dried wheat)

Build them in R&D.

> R&D probably need designs to make equipment and R&D levels mapped out

This is already a thing.

> Currently it trashes up the botany space with animal vomit (seriously where is that coming from, lovely for flypeople but where and why are animals puking EVERYWHERE) and animals. Most botanists are either too invested with it (despite being broken) or find it a nuisance.

If an animal is vomiting up shit, that's reagent vomit. Scoop it up with a beaker and check it out.

> Illegal space puppy farms are real (no more off screen shenanigans i hope for mini-ian enthusiasts)

Yup.

> Could be great boon to leather production to cut down on the requirements for monkey meat/leather for objects (and scales for raptors)

Mhm.

> More xeno facehugger targets

Exactly.

Keep in mind, you can hit farm animals on help intent with a plant analyzer to see their traits and food/water values.

[FantasticFwoosh]

> Animals are not really defined and are given random ass funky attributes at start - Having basic animals and then working up rather than these cooky variations would be better. I can already think of solutions in using mutagen to alter the next generation or specific botanical/culinary remedies.

Yeah, this is planned.

> Raptors are shameful chocobo ripoffs, ridable is neat but all the same we were expecting jurassic park, not final fantasy. They dont even have scales and some of the code is copy and pasted pretty much (goat anger for instance on red chocobos) they also die extremely quickly. Not good for eating or fighting, and the eggs dont even work. (see below)

Raptors were the inspiration for animal farm. They're called raptors because of copyright reasons.

The goat anger has been turned into the Aggressive trait. Red raptors are hostile carnivores, and as such have the aggressive trait. No copypasta was involved. You're supposed to use red ones as combat rides, because if someone hits them trying to hit you, they'll assist in the combat against the person, while you're also able to attack the person. They'll also eat the corpses of their victims if they're hungry enough too, free body disposal.

> Incubators are flat out broke, nobody can understand whether they are autonamous or require heating and lighting as additonal requirements (also numerous bugs surrounding it such as eggs being eaten by the machine if multiples are loaded)

Incubators are hella bugged, yeah. It'll get fixed.

> Trays are ugly and need respriting rather than lazily taking old hydro sprites and making one half yellow

Sprites are mostly WIP codersprites.

> Room to accomodate more animal farming is welcome under the scheme (bear ranching/carp ranching etc/xenobio animal ranching/spliced scientific experiments perhaps)

It's gonna get its own room above botany in the final edition.

> Nests probably need a mechanization re-haul or a recipe to make out of straw (dried wheat)

Build them in R&D.

> R&D probably need designs to make equipment and R&D levels mapped out

This is already a thing.

> Currently it trashes up the botany space with animal vomit (seriously where is that coming from, lovely for flypeople but where and why are animals puking EVERYWHERE) and animals. Most botanists are either too invested with it (despite being broken) or find it a nuisance.

If an animal is vomiting up shit, that's reagent vomit. Scoop it up with a beaker and check it out.

> Illegal space puppy farms are real (no more off screen shenanigans i hope for mini-ian enthusiasts)

Yup.

> Could be great boon to leather production to cut down on the requirements for monkey meat/leather for objects (and scales for raptors)

Mhm.

> More xeno facehugger targets

Exactly.

Keep in mind, you can hit farm animals on help intent with a plant analyzer to see their traits and food/water values.

Despite me arguably being your biggest public critic on these changes, im pleased you took time to respond.

Probing a little bit further based off responses

> How will this new map layout for a room affect already existing map features? Boxstation may have ample space as a template, but if you're planning to expand the area any new machines or mechanics have to be reproducible if botany is to make a farming area from scratch

> Have you considered dividing Hydroponics into a agricultural department, a recent small poll on bagil came in favour of more jobs so this may offer a opportunity for that route if you require a agricultural farmer/planter divide (possibly space for more jobs held in the future ?Apiarist?)

> I notice you tactfully skirted around the idea of 'alternative' or dangerous animal breeding for giving a response instead for the new area section. Given the hostility of some creatures like goats (which can hopefully be bred out of pete, as a sideproject of breeding sheep small enough to fit inside a hotdog bun) will this area have countermeasures for safety and lack of vandalism? (even chickens are particularly vicious when afflicted by the rage gene, and can knock a unarmoured fully grown spaceperson into crit easily if allowed to whale or not hatcheted down in about 15 shots before killing all other livestock in the vicinity)

> Any suggestions you are willing at the moment to reveal on animal management other than pulling them out of the cage (given animal hostilities might not be possible without sedatative measures i imagine unless its hands off wrangling or handled like a slime console)

[iamgoofball]

> How will this new map layout for a room affect already existing map features? Boxstation may have ample space as a template, but if you're planning to expand the area any new machines or mechanics have to be reproducible if botany is to make a farming area from scratch

As stated below, there's gonna need to be a big remap of botany, the kitchen, hell, most of service. 7 times over. thanks, map rotation

You can rebuild all ANIMAL FARM machines from R&D, if the starting machines are lost/you want to expand. Cargo can also order some with the raptor rancher crate.

> Have you considered dividing Hydroponics into a agricultural department, a recent small poll on bagil came in favour of more jobs so this may offer a opportunity for that route if you require a agricultural farmer/planter divide (possibly space for more jobs held in the future ?Apiarist?)

With BEES being part of the mix now, I think a major remap of botany is going to be needed, with the plant shit in the center, BEES on one side, ANIMAL FARM on the other side. This is going to need to be done 7 times over due to all the maps.

I'm not really keen on adding more jobs, I'm more of the opinion that we should just open up more botanist slots.

> I notice you tactfully skirted around the idea of 'alternative' or dangerous animal breeding for giving a response instead for the new area section. Given the hostility of some creatures like goats (which can hopefully be bred out of pete, as a sideproject of breeding sheep small enough to fit inside a hotdog bun) will this area have countermeasures for safety and lack of vandalism? (even chickens are particularly vicious when afflicted by the rage gene, and can knock a unarmoured fully grown spaceperson into crit easily if allowed to whale or not hatcheted down in about 15 shots before killing all other livestock in the vicinity)

This is def. planned and also encouraged for traitors. Breed attack dogs and RELEASE THE HOUNDS is def. on the todo list.

Sheep and wool are planned once I get sprites.

> Any suggestions you are willing at the moment to reveal on animal management other than pulling them out of the cage (given animal hostilities might not be possible without sedatative measures i imagine unless its hands off wrangling or handled like a slime console)

Something like the slime console seems like a good idea.

[FantasticFwoosh]

One final question to MR goof before i close my line of inquiry so that you may return to your work.

> Do you have any plans to farm small critters like cockroaches or mice, given that already mice breed relatively reliably and in some cultures cockroaches/and spiderlings may be considered a delicacy when included in recipes like chocolate molds. Additionally to the original question, will we be seeing any more small pets on this front that are farm-able? (I look foward to consuming poly's exotic parrot eggs on toast with a side of fried bee queen and pomme de le rat)

[iamgoofball]

One final question to MR goof before i close my line of inquiry so that you may return to your work.

> Do you have any plans to farm small critters like cockroaches or mice, given that already mice breed relatively reliably and in some cultures cockroaches/and spiderlings may be considered a delicacy when included in recipes like chocolate molds. Additionally to the original question, will we be seeing any more small pets on this front that are farm-able? (I look foward to consuming poly's exotic parrot eggs on toast with a side of fried bee queen and pomme de le rat)

The end goal is to move every single animal to this system.

[Alex Crimson]

So did you rename the Botany job yet? If they are getting an animal breeding system, then its not really exclusively Botany anymore.

[Ezel]

Goof a chicken litteraly critted me at roundstart
and took 15 punches WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

[Incomptinence]

That's nothing I saw a space carp with a black ball floating under it almost escape alone until the lone survivor glitched it into just staring longingly through some glass. Now it wasn't a highly populated shuttle but still it took like 20+ hits from decent improvised weapons and came out on top.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Right. I guess it's high time to roleplay some 28 days later by injecting already uncontrollably rabid monkeys with the rage gene, then sedating them to install double chainsaw arms before i release them via teleportation beacons around all the major hallways.

Complimentary rage gene buff for monkey mode when? kek.

[lumipharon]

I feel this would be much easier if you just sorted this out one part at a time rather than just to jam in the entire system at once.
IE:
Add in the genetic/trait system to animals that is somewhat balanced but without ingame ways to change it.
Add ingame methods to do the above that work/are balanced (adding machines/nests etc), but not actually on the map.
Map edits.
Add new FUN animals and traits.

But that's just me. Either way this is amusing, but animals just vomiting shit everywhere and being horrible is pretty meh.

[Zilenan91]

That's how farm animals are in real life though, they aren't le majestic beauties maymay like movies/propaganda say they are they're fucking disgusting nuggets of filth

[lumipharon]

reals chickens don't vomit deadly poisons/healing agents/what the fuck you can make them vomit.

[Zilenan91]

Well yeah of course chickens don't do that, impossibilities aside, chickens are some of the cleaner animals from what I've seen.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Well yeah of course chickens don't do that, impossibilities aside, chickens are some of the cleaner animals from what I've seen.

Cow's are the vomit factories, i guess any reagent other than nutriment that goes into them quickly comes back out. Interesting to note that I've never witnessed a aggressive cow, only aggressive chickens.

On the plus side, for reasons of roleplay, i always enjoy taking the vomit to the bar to serve flypeople (i've personally mentioned vomit drinks before), or donating it (either personally as medical borg or dropping it by medbay) under the pretense of it being a 'anti-body' booster, when really its just a placebo.

As to my own opinion, im all for either method of releasing it bit by bit or in a showstopper a month+ or so from now (though the tension of waiting is killing me now that i understand the broader scope of what's being implemented further than some annoying cows crowding my botany space and rushed test PR) Practically, farming in botany is not suitable for multiple animals, the base pairs (which are immortal and unbutcherable from what i gather if fed and watered correctly from the test) are there for convenience to the kitchen only, and that part works alteast, thinking of them as walking dispensers.

I was mentally sizing up the maint behind hydro a few hours or so ago on box, and to fit even 1 hydro equivalent area probably needing to be the size of xenobio for living mob containment seamlessly you would have to cut into chapel maint space nevermind the immediate space behind (unless you literally changed the flow of maint and either with a path-through interim area or a full/partial diversion around connected the two/three areas into close departments)

Apiary being smaller (understanding that bee hives take 1 space much like hydro trays) could fit in quite well (as well as just keeping the apiary within the hydroponics space because of the PR suggestible benefits of having bees pollinate and improve health) to the space behind immediate hydroponics but it's all a bit of a pickle.

Just giving a flooring room for a extended hydroponics extension if you want to expand the farm or specialise in either three could work, but all 3 sub-professions under botany (Planting/Wranching/Apiarist) suggested all sound like they need required tools on hand and setup in place to occur rather than ghetto'ing it all.

[420weedscopes]

yeah sure i'm fine with it

[FantasticFwoosh]

Bees got test merged (sorta) for reagents and honey mostly, so one half of the triumvirate is sort of implemented in form (bees are griffy as fuck)

Any comment on how things are going goof?

[Grazyn]

I've posted this in OOC, I post it here too: BEES WITH UNSTABLE MUTATION TOXIN FROM XENOBIO

[lumipharon]

Oh lawd.

[Ezel]

Glutony blessing bee a sting turns you into blob :^)

[FantasticFwoosh]

True fact - you can make unlimited sting bee assassins using sentience potions.

Load up reagent of your choice, prepare slimes and give the bee a name and it will mercilessly hunt it down and sting its reagent in.

[callanrockslol]

Raptors don't even hatch in incubators.

True fact - you can make unlimited sting bee assassins using sentience potions.

Load up reagent of your choice, prepare slimes and give the bee a name and it will mercilessly hunt it down and sting its reagent in.

They also die super quick and are easy as hell to hit due to taking up the entire tile. Zombies are still better.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Raptors don't even hatch in incubators.

True fact - you can make unlimited sting bee assassins using sentience potions.

Load up reagent of your choice, prepare slimes and give the bee a name and it will mercilessly hunt it down and sting its reagent in.

They also die super quick and are easy as hell to hit due to taking up the entire tile. Zombies are still better.

Pink slimes are not hard to obtain or farm. They are meant to be disposable because the core concept is that you're given all the tools you need

Use the right material reagent and you can get quicker results with less reagent and multiple disposable bee assassins (5 ounce stings, roughly equating to the recommended dose plus extra stings of polonium/poison/lexorin *fun one for breathlessness*)

(also bee guns serve this purpose too)

[TheNightingale]

Glutony blessing bee a sting turns you into blob :^)

Isn't it a morph?

[FantasticFwoosh]

I've been offhand monitoring the situation of the PR and i couldn't help but notice that carp eggs got slipped in.

I expect quality caviar.

[iamgoofball]

carp actually use the new system

[Zilenan91]

Do regular space carp eat bodies then?

[FantasticFwoosh]

Every considered using a dragnet device as a way of capturing wild animals? It already has snares and such on it.