Steelpoint wrote:The problem with removing security is what do you replace it with?
Many of the conversion based game modes (and some normal game modes) operate under the assumption there's some station bound force acting in opposition to the antagonists. Ifyou were to remove security from the game then what's left to counter them?
Most of the time, security starts out barely functional. Yet they can still turn the situation around in their favour by recruiting a militia and coming down
HARD on anyone not on their side. Your average Joe doesn't stand a chance against security's powerful arsenal. The MO during rev/gang is to go out into the hallways to pick off random, alone people to 'deconvert'. Once a critical mass of loyalists has been assembled and assuming no concerted effort of resistance from the antags has been made, security is just going to faceroll all the way to round end.
This works in some rounds, while in others any security personnel just gets roflstomped into oblivion.
Bottom line is: if security has to rely on recruiting, because they begin the rounds almost incapable of dealing with a threat on their own, is there really a point of having them? If security fails to provide what is implied by their fucking job title due to insufficent numbers and/or skill, why do they still exist in their current form?
As I have said, I don't want the concept of a security department gone. But you have to acknowledge the fact that over the course of years, the term 'security' has gotten a very salty, unappreciated, dysfunctional notion. By that I'm not saying, at one point, at the dawn of time, security was your beloved 'friend and helper', nobody likes having authority imposed over them. But it has gotten worse and worse.
With that I'm back at the metaphor of the infected limb. Fighting the infection is in the long term more favourable, you get to keep your limb 'n all... but don't forget that cutting off the limb also works and is much quicker.
Ricotez wrote:When you spend half a round chasing after some fucker who stole the captain's laser gun while some assistant or MD or I don't know, some job who clearly doesn't have enough responsibilities, is breaking down the windows into the Brig, and right when you're convinced the round mode is Traitor the armoury explodes and it turns out the round mode was Nuke Ops all along...
That's when I stop playing Security.
Like I'm all for cutting back on the meta. But when the HoS thinks it's Rev for the longest time until he literally fishes an esword out of someone's backpack, just because of the way a large part of the crew was behaving, there's a problem.
Perpetual animosity between crew and security. For assistant McGriff, security is the enemy. For security, McGriff is the enemy. Until it turns out there really is an outside threat from a third party. They're both wrong, in some regards. It's Palestine in space.
TheNightingale wrote:Honestly, crack down on people who start trouble as non-antags. Smash a few windows without good justification? Steal high-risk items like the spare ID or Captain's laser? Cop a ban. Don't ban a cop. If we remove sources of antagonism that don't come from antags, then that gives antags themselves greater leeway to do fun stuff without being interfered with by validhunters (typically the same group as greytiders, let's face it), and lets Security have an easier time.
"What are you going to do with the spare ID now you've taken it?"
"Give all-access to all my greytide metafri-- uh... to useful crew as a reward."
"And the laser?"
"Shoot Security who try and stop us-- I mean, space carp. Uh-huh."
Not even loyalty-pinned pulse rifles and adrenals would make Security better to play.
Again, this can be traced back to the necessary security mindset of having to regard everyone as an enemy. The crew can't rely on security to do its job properly, because they themselves might end up in security's crosshairs and you quite obviously can't have that. So you arm yourself, not only to be prepared to fight hostile antags, but also to face security should it come down to it.
Then security comes in and takes a dump on your face. Naturally, you will try to resist, thus reinforcing security's default idea of 'everyone is bad'.
Crew antagonizes security. Security antagonizes crew.
Classic negative feedback loop.
While I wouldn't mind seeing some greytiding shitler catching a warning or even a ban, I'm not a big fan of involving admins in IC matters.
It will also not remedy the 'Security vs Crew' mentality, since half the time (or more)
it actually is antag crew vs security.
In a perfect world full of happy sunshine and flowers and chocolate milk rivers, security would be part of the crew. Currently though, they're not (unless it's new cops or wizard).
