Remove Chasms

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:44 am #231569

Bottom post of the previous page:

That still doesn't give any sense of direction to borers, and if the ling decides to go on a rampage later it kicks him in the ass because he now made a bunch of coordinated crewmen with healers that want to keep people alive to make more babies and reproduce.

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:06 am #233013

It's not a huge problem, but lavaland chasms are just way too punishing, even for the deathtrap known as lavaland. It's not only an instant kill, but an instant destruction of the player mob, all for the horrendous crime of stepping on a tile. It's totally out of sync with the rest of the game.

Not paying attention for 2 seconds or hitting a lag spike shouldn't ever be punished with instant death and mob removal. Surely there's a better way to implement chasms.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:16 am #233016

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8278

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:38 am #233034

Saegrimr wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8278

So I should necro a thread from 2 months ago instead of posting a new one?

I'd really appreciate it if you fucked off, buddy.

D&B wrote:Get good.

Also get the fuck out of here with that "totally out of sync" bullshit when there's an antag type that can only be stopped by destroying the corpse permanently.

That's such a terrible comparison. Equating the need to kill changelings by gibbing them to an instant death and gibbing for stepping on a tile isn't even remotely similar. And it absolutely is out of sync. Nothing on lavaland is so punishing for making a mistake.

Seriously. I wouldn't even be that opposed to chasms if there was some sort of 5 second opportunity to get back on land before you fall, or if it didn't totally destroy your corpse. It's just so out of wack with absolutely everything else.

You can take several hits from megafauna, but that won't totally expel you from the round.

You can walk around in space or in fire for several minutes like a retard, but that won't expel you from the round.

But if you step on a chasm tile, a chasm which you didn't cause and had no idea was there, or fall into one due to server lag, it's fucking over.

Why not make people that die to fire totally burn to ashes and be uncloneable?

Why not make people who step out into space without a suit burst when they die due to the vacuum?

It doesn't make any sense.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:41 am #233038

Poorman wrote:So I should necro a thread from 2 months ago instead of posting a new one?

I'd really appreciate it if you fucked off, buddy.

Everybody else does for some reason, but no the intention was to get you to read everything you're going to hear in this thread anyway.

Namely.

"Git gud"
"How did you even die to that"
"Git gud"
"No really git gud theres a handful of items that specifically prevents you from dieing to these"

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:41 am #233039

You are literally one of two people who has a problem with them. They are dangerous but if you pay attention it is pretty simple to not step in them

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:45 am #233041

Do you even play mining often?

Fucking colossus dusts you. Bubblegum makes an area an impossible passage due to how much blood he produces, and the new swarmers are the definition of unbalanced.

Just buy a goddamn jaunter.

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:50 am #233046

D&B wrote:Do you even play mining often?

Fucking colossus dusts you. Bubblegum makes an area an impossible passage due to how much blood he produces, and the new swarmers are the definition of unbalanced.

Just buy a goddamn jaunter.

I do play mining, and you're clearly not getting what I'm saying

If you quantify every individual action in space station 13, every individual mistake, you can understand what I mean.

Getting hit by a single colossus projectile does not instantly gib you. An extended fight with them does, but not taking the first blow.

Taking a single hit from bubblegum isn't an instant death from full health.

But accidently walking on a tile is.

It would be far more fair for something along the lines of taking huge chunks of brute damage, around 70 or 80, and pulling yourself back up from the bottom of the chasm. That would make more sense. But you could be having the best mining round of your life, then blink and fall into a chasm you didn't see.

It's absolutely not in line with everything else in the game difficulty-wise, and you have to be an idiot not to understand that.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:54 am #233048

Buy

A

Jaunter

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:57 am #233050

Saegrimr wrote:Buy

A

Jaunter

Not having an item is still not in line with instant gibbing.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:17 am #233061

Poorman wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8278
So I should necro a thread from 2 months ago instead of posting a new one?

I'd really appreciate it if you fucked off, buddy.

yes you dipshit, that is the only reason to a necro a thread

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:19 am #233082

oranges wrote: yes you dipshit, that is the only reason to a necro a thread

Don't waste time on pointless shit.

Nobody is actually trying to counter my argument with anything other then "get good", which is a total non-argument that does nothing to address the point that I made about chasms. It's just shitposting that means literally nothing.

Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:24 am

Poorman wrote:
oranges wrote: yes you dipshit, that is the only reason to a necro a thread
If you've got such a big fucking problem with it, then delete the thread.

Otherwise don't waste time on pointless shit.

Nobody is actually trying to counter my argument with anything other then "get good", which is a total non-argument that does nothing to address the point that I made about chasms. It's just shitposting that means literally nothing.

He merged your thread with the old one

PS: Seize attributes which are associated with glory and goodness

Post by **Arianya** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:18 pm #233119

From a game design point of view, the point of lavaland is that its meant to be high risk, high reward. While you're correct that most other things aren't the lapse of a single mistake, having chasms serves a key point of keeping people engaged.

In terms of general advice for exploring lavaland without getting chasm'd:

a) Learn your route to the base and back. Avoid walking near lava or chasms whenever possible
b) If chasms are in dangerous places, wall them off with sandbags. Same goes for lava.

I can understand your concern, but it adds a real "attention" cost to lavaland that helps mantain that atmosphere of high risk high reward.

Incomptinence · Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:42 pm

Could do with a resprite to make them a tad more obvious at most. Maybe a sinister pulsing green or blue glow to hint at the lower layer that might be added someday.

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:40 pm #233175

Arianya wrote:From a game design point of view, the point of lavaland is that its meant to be high risk, high reward. While you're correct that most other things aren't the lapse of a single mistake, having chasms serves a key point of keeping people engaged.

In terms of general advice for exploring lavaland without getting chasm'd:

a) Learn your route to the base and back. Avoid walking near lava or chasms whenever possible
b) If chasms are in dangerous places, wall them off with sandbags. Same goes for lava.

I can understand your concern, but it adds a real "attention" cost to lavaland that helps mantain that atmosphere of high risk high reward.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be in the game, just an instant death and destruction of mob from full health is absurd.

I'd be ok if falling into a chasm dealt something like 80 brute damage if you fall into it, your character hitting the bottom and then having to crawl back up. Otherwise, if it puts you to or below 0, and acts as it does now.

That's a bit more in line with punishment in terms of everything else on lavaland, a bigger hit then any singular mining mob but it's fair due to the multiple items you can have to get out of it, in addition to the fact that it's a still hazard.

Lavaland is absolutely high risk, high reward, but I just think the punishment for making mistakes should be consistent across the board, otherwise you get issues in game design where things they add have inconsistent levels of punishment and difficulty.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:13 pm #233204

I've removed posts that did not have feedback to add.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:23 pm #234026

So do the jaunters only teleport you to safety if their in your belt slot? Can i put them in my pocket slot instead? Jaunters fit in pockets. Usually i have an explorers webbing in my belt slot

FantasticFwoosh · Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:59 pm

want to make chasms more fun? cover them with glowshrooms & plant vines because vines wont drop into them until shit is thrown at them & glowshrooms dont give a fuck.

Eitherway, its irritation but very easily avoidable, moreso if you actually bring along a sheet of metal or rods with you to grille around dangerous ones.

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:57 pm #234334

Well, considering I recently fell into one due to the bug where your light source lags behind you, and thus I am instantly permanently killed despite being an antagonist which is normally extremely fucking hard to kill(changeling), I am inclined to agree they need changing.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:22 pm #234349

Saegrimr wrote:Ah yes of all the unfair things on Lavaland, you complain about the one that doesn't move, doesn't chase, and doesn't particularly do anything.

fucking lolling at this
watch yo step nigga like ahaha just look at the floor

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:32 pm #234360

firecage wrote:Well, considering I recently fell into one due to the bug where your light source lags behind you, and thus I am instantly permanently killed despite being an antagonist which is normally extremely fucking hard to kill(changeling), I am inclined to agree they need changing.

Gentlemen.

I am dead.

Please nerf

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:49 pm #234366

D&B wrote:
firecage wrote:Well, considering I recently fell into one due to the bug where your light source lags behind you, and thus I am instantly permanently killed despite being an antagonist which is normally extremely fucking hard to kill(changeling), I am inclined to agree they need changing.
Gentlemen.

I am dead.

Please nerf

Oh kinda fuck off D&B.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:50 pm #234367

you died to lag
you can't nerf something based on it killing you because it lagged
you can't balance a game around someone lagging

Screemonster · Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:51 pm

maybe if you're a changeling you should avoid the things that can permanently kill changelings

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:51 pm #234369

Use sandbags to close them off.

You get them pro bono roundstart

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:19 am #234647

danno wrote:you died to lag
you can't nerf something based on it killing you because it lagged
you can't balance a game around someone lagging

Danno, not lag. The issue where lighting lags behind your character, or sometimes just stays left behind somewhere in maint.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Serves you right for fucking off for the firsts hour of the round to whore up some turbomirder gear to go with your built-in adrenals and healing and thermals and super speed

FantasticFwoosh · Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:07 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Serves you right for fucking off for the firsts hour of the round to whore up some turbomirder gear to go with your built-in adrenals and healing and thermals and super speed

> Typically OP antag

> Goes to lavaland to go collect loot, really says a lot about loot balance huh?

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm #234799

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Serves you right for fucking off for the firsts hour of the round to whore up some turbomirder gear to go with your built-in adrenals and healing and thermals and super speed

Actually, another ling was being killed on mining by, what I assumed was a traitor miner. I went to save them. I couldn't give a fuck about mining.

Screemonster · Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:44 pm

firecage wrote:
danno wrote:you died to lag
you can't nerf something based on it killing you because it lagged
you can't balance a game around someone lagging
Danno, not lag. The issue where lighting lags behind your character, or sometimes just stays left behind somewhere in maint.

you died to a lighting bug
you can't nerf something based on it killing you because your lighting bugged
you can't balance a game around someone experiencing a clientside lighting bug

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:47 pm #234815

Screemonster wrote:
firecage wrote:
danno wrote:you died to lag
you can't nerf something based on it killing you because it lagged
you can't balance a game around someone lagging
Danno, not lag. The issue where lighting lags behind your character, or sometimes just stays left behind somewhere in maint.
you died to a lighting bug
you can't nerf something based on it killing you because your lighting bugged
you can't balance a game around someone experiencing a clientside lighting bug

^ exactly this
you could have had a lighting bug and walked into lava, or a shocked grille, or anything else that harms and/or kills you

onleavedontatme · Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:54 am

Shaft Miners have mesons anyway, the light thing isn't an issue for them.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:18 pm #235440

Kor wrote:Shaft Miners have mesons anyway, the light thing isn't an issue for them.

Uh it is when your fighting a legion in an ash storm.

Also does jaunter saving only work in belt slot? I usually have explorers belt can i put it in my pocket instead

onleavedontatme · Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Only belt slot yeah

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:22 pm #235444

Kor wrote:Only belt slot yeah

But why? Why cant i put it in my pocket and get the same effect. They fit in pockets.

FantasticFwoosh · Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:39 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Kor wrote:Only belt slot yeah
But why? Why cant i put it in my pocket and get the same effect. They fit in pockets.

Pockets are 'concealed' on your person, you wouldnt have time to whip out your jaunter if you're already falling out of range down a chasm, also you can put it INSIDE your explorer webbing (which its on the belt as a mining toolbelt almost) more conveniently.

onleavedontatme · Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:46 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Kor wrote:Only belt slot yeah
But why? Why cant i put it in my pocket and get the same effect. They fit in pockets.

Because otherwise you'd wear both the explorer belt and the jaunter and you wouldn't have to make any sort of choices.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:49 pm #235449

Wait does it work even if inside a container as long as the container is on the belt slot? I've always assumed that you had to trade your whole belt slot for the jaunter as the price you pay for being chasm-proof. Fwoosh don't spread lies

onleavedontatme · Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:22 am

Fwoosh is incorrect