Non-Cultist constructs during Cult rounds.

[RG4]

What twisted asshole decided to actually let this happen, let alone not even seeing the possibility of this and preventing it? I swear the past few cult rounds I've been in I always see in radio "We got a friendly -construct type- here helping us root out the cultist." This typically gets ignored because what Cultist actually keeps up with the names of the constructs to point out which one isn't exactly Nar'sir slave. Like the construct still retains the cult symbol above it's head and many will assume it's friendly before getting smashed by a juggernaut because it really wasn't culted all along. Seriously is about the same level as a converted borg or a borg that still have ling hive mind.

*Only Cultist are allowed to create constructs during Cult rounds
*Servants of the Nar'sie tap into the power of magic'n'shit to actually make these fuckers while regular crew members don't have a clue.
*Using the items to make a construct have the same effect as using the cult blade, it giving you burn damage and force you to drop it.
*This wouldn't during non-cult or wizard rounds where on mining you can actually find soul stones and bodies for them rarely.

Make whatever else restriction you can technically apply because it literally doesn't make sense that Head of Sec Jimmy can nab a soul stone and a shell to make a valid seeking construction that all cultist see as friendly. Let alone the guy doesn't even know how to use the cult magic to get it to work.

[Miauw]

This could very easily be used to meta the roundtype if it only works during cult rounds.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Or just make it so constructs made by non cultists aren't considered cultists. That way the station can get a powerful (?) ally, but it's immediately obvious that it isn't on Nar-Sie's side.

[Jordie0608]

The real issue is that non-cultist constructs are auto-assigned antagonist and cultists see a cult icon on them, but the construct itself can't see cultists and has no objectives at all.

[Cipher3]

Last time I saw this an admin mentioned to us that its ability to see cultists was a glitch and DO NOT use it to find antags.

[MisterPerson]

The behavior of this keeps getting changed. I think it's been "fixed" like 4 times now. Apparently it still needs work.

[Xerux]

There used to be a bug where even wizard made constructs were cultists, it was made so that shades were only cultists if the maker was. (https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/3630)

Unless something's changed these constructs should be non-antags still. (The file hasn't been changed since the linked pull.)
It could be changed so that non-cultists making a construct during a cult round makes the master Narsie instead of whoever did it and turns it into a cultist.

Edit:

During testing on a local server on extended with creating a construct as a non-cultist then culting the maker, the construct did not show up as a cultist and the construct didn't see the maker as a cultist as expected.
I didn't think of this at the time but if the person was already a cultist, it's likely that they remain so when soul-stoned.

Edit 2:

On a test with sharding a cultist on extended, they lost their cult status.

[Oldman Robustin]

This could very easily be used to meta the roundtype if it only works during cult rounds.

What sort of drugs were you on that would lead you to believe this is a problem.

If non-cult have managed to gain access to shells AND shards that means they have a very fucking clear idea of what the fuck is going down.

What's next? Remove Nar-Sie, when Nar-Sie is spawned it allows people to meta the roundtype.

Sorry if that seems harsh but it really feels like a vast majority of the coders have never even played a cult round before.

The two simplest solutions are:

1) Only those with wizard/cult status can use blood shards. Simple enough and it makes sense. Crew can't use tomes or runes, why can they use on of the most powerful relics of nar-sie?

2) Constructs summoned by non-cultists are also non-cultists, cannot listen in on cult chat, and do not have the cult symbol.


Edit: It sounds like #2 may have been implemented. If this is the case then this is kind of a non-issue now.

[Incomptinence]

Non antags being able to shard/ make constructs is mostly just a relic of back when there was a chaplain shard on all our maps and a construct shell on the derelict.

While some maps no longer have the shard I am pretty much all of ours lost the shell since anyone could abuse the daylights out of it. For the short time it was there those in the know rampantly abused it.

[paprika]

Non-cultists making constructs is retarded, there's no other way to put it.

[Miauw]

This could very easily be used to meta the roundtype if it only works during cult rounds.

What sort of drugs were you on that would lead you to believe this is a problem.

If non-cult have managed to gain access to shells AND shards that means they have a very fucking clear idea of what the fuck is going down.

What's next? Remove Nar-Sie, when Nar-Sie is spawned it allows people to meta the roundtype.

Sorry if that seems harsh but it really feels like a vast majority of the coders have never even played a cult round before.

The two simplest solutions are:

1) Only those with wizard/cult status can use blood shards. Simple enough and it makes sense. Crew can't use tomes or runes, why can they use on of the most powerful relics of nar-sie?

2) Constructs summoned by non-cultists are also non-cultists, cannot listen in on cult chat, and do not have the cult symbol.


Edit: It sounds like #2 may have been implemented. If this is the case then this is kind of a non-issue now.

gamemode checks are bad ideas for various reasons, metagaming is just one of them. Say that admins want to spice up an extended round by adding cultists.
lolnope can't use shards gg

[Steelpoint]

Just don't let Constructs be constructable by anyone that is not a Cultist. If you want to make little robots go make Cyborgs not otherworldly abominations.

[Kelenius]

The non-cultist made constructs showing up as cultists to cultists is a bug and should be reported here.

WHY ISN'T IT REPORTED YET

Only cultists and wizards being able to use shards... meh. What if you're a lucky miner and found it? Or what if you're a chaplain and prayed to gods?

[Cipher3]

Chaplain actually starts with one on Metastation.

[Xerux]

Just did another test on extended on a local test server, culted one person, soulstoned and made them into a construct, no longer cultist. Culted the person who made them, they didn't see them as a cultist. This would need to be checked on an actual cult round. Is someone maybe sharding a cultist and then the construct just kills those it remembers as being cultists?

[Malkevin]

A lot of the checks for soul stones depend on if the game mode is set to cult (use the debug-game verb to turn the game mode debugger on, it'll let you bypass the player number requirements)
Soul stones also work differently depending on if the stone was used on a person or if the stone was created from a person being sacrificed, although in the latter case they ARE meant to be cultists, if you're dumb enough to loot a filled soul stone off a dead cultist and use it on a shell you deserve to get smashed in the face.

[wesoda25]

Hey hey hey this is still fucking stupid 5 years later and is still happening.

[cedarbridge]

Hey hey hey this is still fucking stupid 5 years later and is still happening.

Yeah, its more of a problem that the chaplain on at least one map starts with his own shard.

[Shadowflame909]

what if we turn this half bug into a feature.

Chaplains can already purify shades

What if it purified shells as well?

Angelic Constructs baby.

[Nabski]

Hey hey hey this is still fucking stupid 5 years later and is still happening.

BEGONE FOUL NECROMANCER.
OR AT LEAST ADD SOMETHING NEW TO THE CONVERSATION.
I was a wraith from the chaplains soul shard one time, it took me a while to realize I wasn't cult, and then I smashed their base.

[cedarbridge]

Hey hey hey this is still fucking stupid 5 years later and is still happening.

BEGONE FOUL NECROMANCER.
OR AT LEAST ADD SOMETHING NEW TO THE CONVERSATION.
I was a wraith from the chaplains soul shard one time, it took me a while to realize I wasn't cult, and then I smashed their base.

Its valuable to note that this does come up fairly infrequently and causes trouble even still. The perils of issues that go unresolved.

[NoxVS]

Hey hey hey this is still fucking stupid 5 years later and is still happening.

Yeah, its more of a problem that the chaplain on at least one map starts with his own shard.

Chaplain isn’t needed to do this. Non cult can’t shard people but they should be able to take an already sharded person and put them in a shell

[wesoda25]

It’d be a cool idea if you purify a stone as chappy, and then create “angelic” constructs which have blue/white decals as opposed to red ones. They have special anti cult abilities and whatnot. It’d solve the problem of stealth non cult constructs, since they’d look different. But noncultists wouldn’t be able to place normal shades inside construct shells.

[cedarbridge]

I'd much rather see a clearly visible anti-cult than "oh hey I can just use this construct to rat out and stealth the rest of the cult"

[oranges]

It’d be a cool idea if you purify a stone as chappy, and then create “angelic” constructs which have blue/white decals as opposed to red ones. They have special anti cult abilities and whatnot. It’d solve the problem of stealth non cult constructs, since they’d look different. But noncultists wouldn’t be able to place normal shades inside construct shells.

sounds good

[Shadowflame909]

Orange man sad

[wesoda25]

ill be done witha PR sometime today or tomorrow

sneak peek at constructs:

[Shadowflame909]

Change that black to white my boy

And we add Holy-Water to all of their damaging abilities

[wesoda25]

Change that black to white my boy

And we add Holy-Water to all of their damaging abilities

injecting holy water on attack is a good idea and no black is better

[cedarbridge]

Change that black to white my boy

And we add Holy-Water to all of their damaging abilities

I don't think we need to start buffing them above and beyond their cult-counterparts.

[Shadowflame909]

what if we replace the damage with holy water


They can instantly purge themselves of reagents by stabbing themselves with their dagger

[cedarbridge]

what if we replace the damage with holy water


They can instantly purge themselves of reagents by stabbing themselves with their dagger

Then you've made them strictly worse than their cult counterparts.

[Kangtut]

They can instantly purge themselves of reagents by stabbing themselves with their dagger

They would still lose all of their stored spells even if they had a chance to purge them self. Only thing I would say that they should have is the ability to erase runes null-rod style. That way the crew could have a safe way to scout and take out the very balanced wall/blood boil runes.