Boxstation General Feedback

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Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:48 am #138

Anything and everything about boxstation for mappers to review.
Last edited by Ikarrus on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Jeb » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:24 am #140

Only suggestion I have at this point: Make it not as easy to build disposal to space in the hallway outside botany.

A few pipes and you're shooting people directly to biohazard disposals.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:15 am #151

I don't recall any of the biohazard disposals being anywhere near hydroponics. Maybe you. An show me with an image?
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:23 pm #200

It's easy! Drop a few disposal entrances in the hallway outside maintenance south of botany and route them into the existing pipes at that location, then route the main disposal network into the virology->space disposal in maintenance near virology's atmos substation. I don't really know if this needs to be fixed though?
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:30 pm #203

Yeah, I intended it to be easy to sabotage in that way, but it can change if people are really against it.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Jeb » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:34 pm #204

Might just be something that bothers me, idk.

Couple days ago had 4-5 rounds back to back where there was someone setting up a deathtrap there and just seemed to get old pretty quick.

Perhaps if it required a bit more effort for it to happen?
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:40 pm #230

Jeb wrote:Might just be something that bothers me, idk.

Couple days ago had 4-5 rounds back to back where there was someone setting up a deathtrap there and just seemed to get old pretty quick.

Perhaps if it required a bit more effort for it to happen?

That'd be easy to do if we just separated the pipes leading into the biohazard disposal room and lock it to atmos access. But I'd like to hear more opinions on the matter first.

Would anykne be particularly upset if the disposal room was atmos-locked?
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Jeb » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:44 pm #233

Ikarrus wrote:
Jeb wrote:Might just be something that bothers me, idk.

Couple days ago had 4-5 rounds back to back where there was someone setting up a deathtrap there and just seemed to get old pretty quick.

Perhaps if it required a bit more effort for it to happen?

That'd be easy to do if we just separated the pipes leading into the biohazard disposal room and lock it to atmos access. But I'd like to hear more opinions on the matter first.

Would anykne be particularly upset if the disposal room was atmos-locked?


How about if you do it like disposals is, and have it toss you onto a conveyor belt leading to a mass driver?
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:48 pm #237

Hey, that could work too. I don't think anyone will miss the space disposals.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:16 pm #262

Isn't the point of direct-to-space disposals to get hazardous materials off station without the chance for them to be intercepted by greyshirts? (and to give antags a way to hide evidence)
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:32 pm #297

The new AI Satellite, and AI Upload/Gravity Generator, should be merged into Boxstation soon. I hope to collate feedback on these new additions once they go live to ascertain what impact this makes.

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New AI Upload/Gravity Generator.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:08 am #457

There's a mystery button under an airlock in the brig. It has been there for weeks now.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:58 am #465

It took two attempts, but it should be gone after the next server update
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby WeeYakk » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:01 am #490

Is there lipstick on the map yet?
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:31 pm #555

Order contraband.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:32 am #707

The AI satellite got merged, I'll have to write a changelog. Hopefully it will be on the servers soon.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby cultist-chan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:01 am #894

Alright. After a terrible malf round let me just say this before I get into this. I appreciate the coders putting in effort. Some of it is good, some of it isn't so good. But at least its effort.


The AI satellite... its horrible. Not horrible looking but horrible in "crunch", the mechanics of the game. It will ruin every round where the ai has been subverted, as it is now impossible to card.

In addition as difficult as it was before to subvert that AI without using the tech storage walk around, it is almost impossible for a traitor to do now as you have to go through the bridge. And there really isn't a "sneaky way" to go through the most traveled hallway in the station, emag 3 doors (command, command, AI access). Emag the AI turrets, set a new law in and get away. All while being stealthy in a area of the map where most people loiter. Previously you could hack open the first door to the AI then close it behind you. Now its impossible to be sneaky. Also good luck carding the AI if thats your objective.

If the AI is subverted all the AI has to do now is turn off its upload, and fuck over the RD's office. Congratulations AI, its ogre. Crew is Shreked.

Honestly... what you have, for the AI satellite is a fort. Unless a ai is extremely stupid, when its malf its game over for the crew. There are only two entrances to the new AI chambers. Both of which are easily either turned off by the ai or ruined and can never be repaired. In addition now the AI can release the singularity and not really give a fuck. Lord singloth will eat the station while the AI sits in its cushy tower drinking your tears, while surrounded by twice as many turrets as before.

The very reason the AI was on the station was because it is potentially the strongest player in the game.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:48 am #903

Box is a too-old design that's continually updated to stay competitive. There's plenty of other maps to run and Metastation is objectively better in every way.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:04 am #918

Metastation has AI satellite as well.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby cultist-chan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:57 pm #928

Scott wrote:Metastation has AI satellite as well.

Metastation
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http://i58.tinypic.com/o720q0.png

Theres a reason why people chose box.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:14 pm #932

I am just saying there's no point in coming in Box thread to say Metastation is better because Box has a satellite AI, when Metastation has a satellite AI.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:17 pm #933

Scott wrote:I am just saying there's no point in coming in Box thread to say Metastation is better because Box has a satellite AI, when Metastation has a satellite AI.

I never said it was better because satelite AI.

I said it was better in every way.

I also said that Box is old and outdated, and that I think it's only still around due to inertia.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Jeb » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:10 pm #945

Psyentific wrote:
Scott wrote:I am just saying there's no point in coming in Box thread to say Metastation is better because Box has a satellite AI, when Metastation has a satellite AI.

I never said it was better because satelite AI.

I said it was better in every way.

I also said that Box is old and outdated, and that I think it's only still around due to inertia.


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I prefer box, however the new AI satellite is..dumb. Revert and rethink pls, perhaps get a few design inputs from people
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:20 pm #949

I did get design inputs, from a lot of people mind you.

The problem some people are having is not the design of the satellite, its the actual presence of a AI Satellite.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:02 pm #998

EDIT: double post
Last edited by Ikarrus on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:39 pm #1007

I didn't have the time to review your changes as I was out of town for the long weekend, but here is my feedback on the live revision.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/831 ... dback1.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/831 ... dback2.png
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/3491

I'd also like to ask you to review the door accesses on the sat. Telecoms isn't on the satellite any more, so there isn't as much of a reason for standard engineers to have access to it. But if you still want to keep the satellite accessible to engineers for maintenance, then remove the bridge requirement, since they're still locked out of it.

At the moment, the RD (One of whose responsibility is AI maintenance) can't get in the AI chamber because of the construction access requirement. The CE doesn't get AI access so he can't enter it either.

You also need to look into not giving the engineers a free teleporter to use, as the one on the sat is all-access.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:27 pm #1015

-Someone mentioned the outer ring of doors being all-access, including the SMES room. An assistant was able to just walk in there.
-An AI that would spawn alongside the central AI would be fighting each other for the use of their intercoms.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:08 pm #1017

I fully intend to overhaul the access for the AI Satellite, as you noted its mostly left over from when it held Telecommunications.

The access I'm looking at is that all heads can access the middle foyer room (With Officer Pinksky). The rest of the satellite however is off limits to only the Captain, the RD and the CE. Only the Captain and RD have access to the AI Core and the Teleporter Room.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:25 pm #1023

Ah, that sounds good. Thanks for assuaging my concerns
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:55 pm #1027

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Hibbles » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:04 am #1070

I really love basically all of the changes to Box lately, for a while it was relatively static in design but the newer stuff, from the gravgen onwards, has been great. I haven't played an actual round as a player since AI sat was merged on Sibyl but I think I'm going to like that, too, Meta's is neat.

I think a lot of the issue I had with Box was just the fact that it felt too whittled-down, especially for our default high-pop map (since it runs on Sibyl and Sibyl is the higher-pop one typically) but the new rooms and expanded maint have gone a long way towards adding back spaces in the station that help it be... cooler? More fun? Hard to quantify.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:24 am #1079

Worth mentioning, the old gravity generator room is still there, just with no gravity generator. Remove it or refit it.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby AseaHeru » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:27 pm #1145

I bileve that was on purpose, like the old robotics lab.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:01 pm #1195

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE!

I want to give my hand at adding in new rooms and similar to Boxstation, as mapping is enjoyable. What would you like to see being added to Boxstation? I have a few ideas I'll put forward.

- Expand Emergency Storage/Move it to a more central location: I would add in more relevant Emergency Supplies such as Oxygen Tanks, Scrubbers, space heaters, emergency tool boxes and more useful stuff, as well as being move obvious.

- Add a garden: It would be located around the holodeck or near arrivals.

- Rework the Janitor's closet to be more homley, as well as add a secondary Janitorial Closet deep in maintenance, in case someone blew up/stole his stuff.

Or whatever!
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Incoming » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:08 pm #1196

Don't add too much more bloat, the expanded maint is already there for that. If you need more space, cannibalize existing space.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:17 pm #1198

I don't intend to add more space, I'll be using existing space for these projects. Like the vacant office or free maint space.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby TehSteveo » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:22 pm #1212

One thing I'd suggest if possible is moving the incinerator closer to Atmospherics/Engineering, then place a gas turbine engine inside of the incinerator. It would allow Atmospherics to hook up a direct plasma/O2 feed to the incinerator to power the turbine much more easier. This would be without difficulties that the current map has to reach the incinerator with greyshirts and security interfering as much. This allows another thing for Atmos/Engineering to do and gives another power source to the station which box currently does not have.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Jalleo » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:23 pm #1224

Personally I would like the department layouts on the station changed so its less rigid medbay has only ever been where it is now.

Same with security and engineering.

Science had been kinda moved but only so you didnt have to go through meday to get there.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:18 pm #1243

Might as well make a new station.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby AseaHeru » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:11 pm #1340

Janitor one.
I am located here, lurking in your posts, leaving piles of transparent wordings and being confused. Oh, I also try to map...

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:18 pm #1353

Camera blind spot that shouldn't exist.
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Meanwhile, two cameras cuddling in the same area.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Durkel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:30 pm #1429

It's fucking impossible to fight a blob in the South west maintenance area near engineering. It's too cramped and too exposed to space, could you look into not making it a death trap there? The 1x1 hallways are a killer, and it doesn't help the one either side of it is space.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 pm #1431

I'm currently waiting for my current AI Sat PR to get merged before I start any mapping work. Once its merged/closed I'll take a look at SW maint on top of what I'll do.

What I plan to do.

- Add a second Janitorial Closet deep in Maint (NE Maint seems good).
- Move the Emergency Supplies Room to a more central location and expand it with more supplies.
- Fix camera missing areas.
- At this rate I'll look at widening SW maint possibly.
- Other things.
- Maybe squeeze a garden somewhere on the station, probley around the arrivals hallway.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:55 pm #1433

There's more than one emergency supplies, should just add like a couple more if possible.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:00 pm #1434

There's about two or three on the top of my head, my intention is to make a "primary" supplies area that has more effective and varied emergency tools in the near centre of the station.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:18 pm #1436

The purpose of there being more than one rather than one big one is to assure there are emergency supplies during an emergency. Even if a part of the station gets blown up, there will be supplies.

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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:22 pm #1438

No intention of disrupting that, however I feel the current emergency supply areas are not really stocked with much of use. I'll keep the current two where they are and add a third central one that has more useful and expanded supplies.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Hibbles » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:37 pm #1459

Image

I absolutely love how it's a bit harder to murder the AI now, it's needed with the advent of things like MLG FastClicking wrecking turrets and the general steady decline in AI power yadda yadda. But even so, there should, I dunno. Be some design thing that would help prevent what the Engiborg's doing? It takes so few RCD'd doors, which are such a pain to get through even when you know what you're doing and are a pro hacker. But I still love the sattelite in general.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:49 pm #1464

Unfortunately that is a balance problem with engiborgs being able to easily ruin atmo and build 50,000 doors at will and said doors being more effective barricades than walls...

From what I have witnessed it takes at minimum two maxcap bombs from the outside (Inside the grille's) to actually breach into the AI Core, with a third bomb being needed to destroy the AI proper. So that's the current balance on bombing the AI so far.
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Re: Boxstation General Feedback

Postby Scott » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:05 pm #1470

I'd say it's a problem with the transit tube.

There are no gas masks in engineering maintenance. Fix that.

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