I absolutely love playing on either side during revs. Once the gamemode is confirmed you have to take immediate and massive action or die.
As a rev you have to beat the heads of staff and the sec team who are all armed to the teeth which forces you to be more ressourceful than you usually are by using improvised weapons and teaming up with your fellow revs to win.
As a head or sec you must organize and participate in the counter revolution : group up with other non revs, arm up everyone then slowly but surely kill or deconvert all the revs. A trick to win is to implant players who proved to be robust while killing the others who will inevitably die or get converted again...
So yeah revs is a good gamemode when your mindset is right. That is a winner mindset who focuses on carrying out the plan that will lead you to victory.
Of course I can understand the gamemode doesn't appeal to people who only want to play sec to torment other players under the guise of Space Law and under the protection of the escalation rules which forbid the "tider" from fighting back.
I'm simply stating my opinion that I believe wholeheartedly that if Revolution was removed from rotation, that it might see a minor increase in Security population since I believe that Rev is one of the bigger turn offs in playing Security.
I do not believe that Revolution is a compatible gamemode with SS13 as it wholey discards any semblance of nuance or subtlety for generic team fight, which if I wanted I'd go play on Colonial Marines or CorpMerc.
If you or anyone else want to sit there insulting people for having different opinions, and being a asshole in general, then go ahead.
Steelpoint wrote:Nonetheless I still believe that removing Revolution from the rotation would be a net positive for Security.
Although I doubt anything will ever make Security a somewhat more popular role.
Revolution isn't really the problem. It's other modes that try to be it but add bunch of other unneeded features, which result in revolution but with a different cadence. See blood cult, clockcult, and gangs which all create the Team A and Team B game mode which pits security as a team.
Yet honestly, I don't see the gamemode being the problem as usually people's mentality is. Security feels lose/lose. You try to play more passive, let people slide on things, and you'll end up dead and/or you have OOC whine how shitty you were. You play aggressive, don't let people slide on things, and you end up getting people mad at you and OOC whines about how shitty you were.
Revolution is the best conversion type and above wizard imo. This is coming from Edward "I joined security to kill people" Sloan though so take it with a grain of salt.
The best part about it is that it doesn't have a bunch of confusing game mechanics. Both cults suffered/suffer from this problem. We regularly got ahelps about clock cult's confusing mechanics- it was basically a game within ss13 everyone had to learn. Blood cult is the same but at least it happens onstation.
Personally I just find that struggle to survive fun. Not knowing who you can trust unless they have the blinky blue light. etc. I wouldn't want it every round but I still enjoy it when it comes up
>You play aggressive, don't let people slide on things, and you end up getting people mad at you and OOC whines about how shitty you were.
What's the disadvantage? :^)
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg
DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))
BeeSting12 wrote:Revolution is the best conversion type and above wizard imo. This is coming from Edward "I joined security to kill people" Sloan though so take it with a grain of salt.
The best part about it is that it doesn't have a bunch of confusing game mechanics. Both cults suffered/suffer from this problem. We regularly got ahelps about clock cult's confusing mechanics- it was basically a game within ss13 everyone had to learn. Blood cult is the same but at least it happens onstation.
Personally I just find that struggle to survive fun. Not knowing who you can trust unless they have the blinky blue light. etc. I wouldn't want it every round but I still enjoy it when it comes up
>You play aggressive, don't let people slide on things, and you end up getting people mad at you and OOC whines about how shitty you were.
What's the disadvantage? :^)
As a Secmain I agree, winning is fun because it's cool to occupy and establish control over areas that either were or going to be rev hotspots, losing is still fun because I get to disguise myself as a chicken, drag people into maintenance, beat them over the head and then hand them a pair of sunglasses, or just kill them like it's guerrilla warfare, with the bit of hope that maybe security can make a comeback. I think we need to apply Revolution's simplicity to clock cult and to a lesser extent blood cult but then again I don't want to go into an off-topic rant about how to save clockwork cult, because I really did quite enjoy that mode.
The main problem I have with revs is when people decide to be pussies that delay constantly and ruin everything for everyone, if there were a way to get people to not be pussies during revs that'd be really great.
[youtube]c4TvNTn8WFM[/youtube]
I joined security just to kill f*rries.
I actually like rev as security since like other people mentioned it feels like an actual civil war and there's no gimmicky shit like in cult or wizard.
My only issue with playing sec is that you definitely get more people ahelping against you, usually because they are mad that they got robusted and executed and the sec player didn't feel like letting a greyshit back into the round after a 'hilarious prank' like breaking all the cell windows or letting out water vapor in the brig hall.
Just L wrote:My only issue with playing sec is that you definitely get more people ahelping against you, usually because they are mad that they got robusted and executed and the sec player didn't feel like letting a greyshit back into the round after a 'hilarious prank' like breaking all the cell windows or letting out water vapor in the brig hall.
Well yeah the admins definitely need to take context into account. If it's a shitter getting his just desserts it should be an IC issue. If it's an RD minding his own business in the science department and the warden runs up to him and shoots him with buckshot since he heard there were suspected cultists in science, that's obviously bannable. I don't think there's anything wrong with searching someone who is suspected of being malicious as long as no harm is done to them either.
PKPenguin321 wrote:i gotta say the dramatic title of this thread makes me cringe every time i read it
Why though? It's pretty fitting and descriptive.
You told me to play on Sybil, but it's not much different, except with less players. And there's still people like Jasper Schmidt who make spear, and start fucking shit up, breaking ,stealing, stirring shit the moment round starts. And there's no security but Warden, so Captain has to run around playing Capcurity. And then I'm gonna get note again, or job ban on AI for playing robocop, because I refuse to let people trash the round just because they can.
But hey, at least there's "economy" now.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
PKPenguin321 wrote:i gotta say the dramatic title of this thread makes me cringe every time i read it
Why though? It's pretty fitting and descriptive.
You told me to play on Sybil, but it's not much different, except with less players. And there's still people like Jasper Schmidt who make spear, and start fucking shit up, breaking ,stealing, stirring shit the moment round starts. And there's no security but Warden, so Captain has to run around playing Capcurity. And then I'm gonna get note again, or job ban on AI for playing robocop, because I refuse to let people trash the round just because they can.
But hey, at least there's "economy" now.
Believe it or not, there IS a game without security. I know, mind boggling right? Who could have thought you can enjoy the round on your own or with friends, and just tune people you dislike out? I mean I’m really glad you made this thread, it opened my eyes to some things too! I mean, before this I never realized that the station doesn’t have to be 100% perfect 100% of the time, and that you can mind your own business instead of trying to stop everything you dislike!
Thank you Lumber, this thread has made me a better person.
wesoda25 wrote:
Believe it or not, there IS a game without security. I know, mind boggling right? Who could have thought you can enjoy the round on your own or with friends, and just tune people you dislike out? I mean I’m really glad you made this thread, it opened my eyes to some things too! I mean, before this I never realized that the station doesn’t have to be 100% perfect 100% of the time, and that you can mind your own business instead of trying to stop everything you dislike!
Thank you Lumber, this thread has made me a better person.
>>>>>>>>>> stop you’re making me salty
Plus cobby I was telling Lumber theres more to the game than having a clean, healthy, roleplaying station/crew. The only part in there where I even talk about greytide is the part about ignoring people you dislike. Maybe he and some friends can have fun with nanites or some shit seems like the type of person to like them.
How has no one brought up that sec can be just as bad if not worse than the typical tider? Fucking hell some rounds I demote and gulag more officers than I do assistants. There are more than just constant tiding that turns off sec mains. I know I don't play it as often because 7/10 times I'm fighting my own team as much as I am tiders or antags, and even more round the antags are more reasonable and likable than the average person that ends up in the brig. Plenty of games have run fine without sec because people are more than capable of policing themselves.
Kangtut wrote:How has no one brought up that sec can be just as bad if not worse than the typical tider? Fucking hell some rounds I demote and gulag more officers than I do assistants. There are more than just constant tiding that turns off sec mains. I know I don't play it as often because 7/10 times I'm fighting my own team as much as I am tiders or antags, and even more round the antags are more reasonable and likable than the average person that ends up in the brig. Plenty of games have run fine without sec because people are more than capable of policing themselves.
It can be cool to be the one straight cop in a team of crooks. It gets grating if it happens to often, but it makes for fun roleplay when you show a little human kindness to the antag, and he ends up sparing your life when he inevitably escapes sec custody because your fellow officers are too busy harmbatoning the clown to watch the cameras.
Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:43 pm
Imagine my grandparents surviving nazi concentration camps only for their grandson to be accused of nazism for criticizing a citrus fruit on the internet.
wesoda25 wrote:I was telling Lumber theres more to the game than having a clean, healthy, roleplaying station/crew.
Yet again you're misrepresenting what i'm saying. My favorite game mode is extended, specifically because it's unpredictable and chaotic. Because antags are born and die naturally though the conflict. What I don't like are individuals whose sole purpose is to wreck and destroy, being as un-clean, un-healthy and un-roleplaying as possible. Every round. So don't give me this "ignore people" and "station/crew". 99% of people are just fine. 99% of people are not greytide. Most of assistants are not greytide.
Also, my personal inconvenience is not a problem here. But you probably wouldn't understand that.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
Kangtut wrote:How has no one brought up that sec can be just as bad if not worse than the typical tider? Fucking hell some rounds I demote and gulag more officers than I do assistants. There are more than just constant tiding that turns off sec mains. I know I don't play it as often because 7/10 times I'm fighting my own team as much as I am tiders or antags, and even more round the antags are more reasonable and likable than the average person that ends up in the brig. Plenty of games have run fine without sec because people are more than capable of policing themselves.
Lumbermancer wrote:
Yet again you're misrepresenting what i'm saying. My favorite game mode is extended, specifically because it's unpredictable and chaotic. Because antags are born and die naturally though the conflict. What I don't like are individuals whose sole purpose is to wreck and destroy, being as un-clean, un-healthy and un-roleplaying as possible. Every round. So don't give me this "ignore people" and "station/crew". 99% of people are just fine. 99% of people are not greytide. Most of assistants are not greytide.
Also, my personal inconvenience is not a problem here. But you probably wouldn't understand that.
I'm not challenging the claim that assholes who only seek to destroy and be a dick to others are unhealthy to the game. I'm talking about how stupid the thread title is. I suggest a title of: "Rule 1 and Greytide" or something that actually makes sense.
And as for YOU
Just L wrote:>Everything that Ryan Cobb has said
The guy that got banned for self-antagging is saying sec shouldn't be in the game. Now that is hilarious.
I never said sec shouldn't be in the game. I said the enjoyability of a round does not solely depend on the presence of security.
You also seem to misunderstand quite a lot about my ban. The label of self-antagging was applied because my actions were considered antagonistic like in nature. If you'd bothered to I dunno, read my appeal, or maybe even comprehend what I've said numerous times, my mistake that round was based completely on a stupid mistake on my part. I fucked up big time, bwoinked the admin myself about it, and ate the ban. Now I'm back and you can stop grudging me because I accidentally got you removed from a round one time.
Just L wrote:Ryan, you do nothing but trying to grief on the majority of your rounds.
Oh nO A ShiTtER DIsaRmED mE AnD RaN oUT Of BrIG!!!
Regardless if you have an issue with my atrocious playstyle feel free to take it up with the admins to get me banned asap, this ain’t the place. Otherwise, fuck off and consider adding something a little more than I play assistant 2/3 of the time.
Why would I want you to get banned? You complain in the most hilarious ways when you get busted, usually in an ock ick manner. Like that one time you walled off the brig and bridge at round start as an antag and then immediately disconnected after you were caught.
Just L wrote:Why would I want you to get banned? You complain in the most hilarious ways when you get busted, usually in an ock ick manner. Like that one time you walled off the brig and bridge at round start as an antag and then immediately disconnected after you were caught.
You even said in logs that before I disconnected, I stated I hate people who disconnect when caught, however it was really fucking late and I’m not fucking my sleep over to save face in a virtual game. Also I literally didn’t complain, like at all. As I stated earlier in this thread I tide with the idea in mind that I’m probably gonna get killed. Maybe I would’ve been a little miffed to get killed over something as easily reversible as using the toolbox you spawn two tiles away from, but I definitely wouldn’t have ahelped it. Lumber I’m sorry to derail your thread like this but its been bothering me for a while, given I didn’t get to defend myself. Someone accusing me of ban baiting really pisses me off.
Fellas, does it really count as security if they're all 60 IQ and sometimes forget to breathe IRL?
Here is how we get more sec players and make sec great. We add an in-game IQ test. Score less than 100? Blacklist them from sec. Now we incentivize it. Give sec players antag rep. There. Less retarded sec players and more sec players (validhunters). Can I get a like, share, and subscribe?
If you see this image please show Subject217 some love. He's in a dark place right now
Spoiler:
Fikou wrote:
The problem is that the autistic fucking admins on these SS13 servers, so drunk with power, so intoxicated on the scent of their sweaty ballsacks as they drown in 'decision making' and 'responsibility', things they've never had before, hand out permabans for next to nothing. Why not a 3 month ban? Why not a 6 month ban? No. A fucking perma ban. Nevermind that people change, nevermind that people have shitty days or good days, nevermind that FOREVER IS A FUCKING LONG TIME, no... Permabans. And then they expect you to appeal on the forums so they can have MORE POWER, MORE DECISION MAKING. "HOO HOO, LOOKIT ME MOMMY, I GET TO DECIDE THE FATE OF THIS MAN HOOOO HOOOOOO WOWEEE SO EXCITE, MY LITTLE WINKY WILLY IS GETTING CHUB-CHUB, MOMMY." And let's be fucking absolutely real here, the only reason admins want people to sign up for the fucking forums to fucking ban appeal is so they can sell the members e-mails to, like, Chinese realtors or some shit.
security mains can't comprehend a game without security because to them the game is security, that is why they are confused when you talk about the game proceeding without security
I'm not even security main anymore according to /playtime, but I'll bite.
In my opinion, from the perspective of a security officer, the station life should look like 50% civilians doing civilian stuff, 25% antags doing sneaky shit behind the curtains and 25% assistants not assisting but doing whatever.
But right now it's more like 25% civilians doing civilian stuff, 25% antags doing sneaky stuff behind the curtains and 50% assistants not assisting but breaking shit. That is until antags decide to murderbone, then it goes to 15% civilians, 50% antags, and 35% grey tide.
Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't want to remove assistants, I don't want to ban greytiders. My problem is that greytide takes way too much of the round. It's like for certain group of people, assistant mains, the game is not about doing jobs, interacting with other departments, light rp'ing. And this was always the case but It never bothered me so until recently.
And I can hear you already typing furiously "DO NOT TELL OTHERS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME". Well, I don't. That's why I don't really play sec that much anymore. Things I enjoyed the most about sec got brushed aside to make way for wanton grief, clown cars, and station exploding.
And I can hear you already typing furiously "THEN WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM". Well, I think all this negatively impacts how the round flows, not for me, but in general, for everyone who is not a greytide or an antag.
And I don't need security, I know the basics of CQC, I can just put people to sleep and toss them outside.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
Lumbermancer wrote:I'm not even security main anymore according to /playtime, but I'll bite.
In my opinion, from the perspective of a security officer, the station life should look like 50% civilians doing civilian stuff, 25% antags doing sneaky shit behind the curtains and 25% assistants not assisting but doing whatever.
But right now it's more like 25% civilians doing civilian stuff, 25% antags doing sneaky stuff behind the curtains and 50% assistants not assisting but breaking shit. That is until antags decide to murderbone, then it goes to 15% civilians, 50% antags, and 35% grey tide.
Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't want to remove assistants, I don't want to ban greytiders. My problem is that greytide takes way too much of the round. It's like for certain group of people, assistant mains, the game is not about doing jobs, interacting with other departments, light rp'ing. And this was always the case but It never bothered me so until recently.
And I can hear you already typing furiously "DO NOT TELL OTHERS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME". Well, I don't. That's why I don't really play sec that much anymore. Things I enjoyed the most about sec got brushed aside to make way for wanton grief, clown cars, and station exploding.
And I can hear you already typing furiously "THEN WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM". Well, I think all this negatively impacts how the round flows, not for me, but in general, for everyone who is not a greytide or an antag.
And I don't need security, I know the basics of CQC, I can just put people to sleep and toss them outside.
I don't play security often because my free time/internet connection doesn't allow it, but this is 100% correct and also a major factor. That said it is also not new and has been the case since 2014 at least.
"I don't see any difference between ERP and rape." -- erro
The issue I see with security is it's by nature a job for antag hunting, yet any other job can do it just as easily, if not better, without the same amount of stress and scrutiny. People who would be drawn into the role just end up picking something else instead and greytide their way into valid hunting without risk of getting job banned. What you have left is a handful of competent and dedicated officers and a lot of unrobust twats on power trips.
Because if you're doing your job right as security, 20 minutes into the round you're still using your taser and a stun baton, John Greytide is going to have that and a RCD, fireaxe, hardsuit, jetpack, hand tele, all access and starting shit with security because he can all the while a traitor is murdering people in maintenance and some shitter opened a vapor canister in the hallway to the brig for the 50th time that day
The rule against excessive greytiding is so vague it may as well not be there
Last edited by Mickyan on Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I play on Manuel as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.
Assistants fucking around is perfectly fine, and if anything some Assistants occasionally causing minor trouble can be an enjoyable experience for Security and the Assistants.
I will freely admit that in my Assistant round I will swing from being a slacker, a makeshift Engineer to a thief who'll steal anything that looks shiny and see if I can get away with it.
But there is a difference between being a conniving thief who keeps things PG-13 on an irregular basis, who gives chase but won't go further and will go quietly if captured, to the people who take it to the extreme where they'll steal the most valuable items on station, break into the most secure areas of the station, and intentionally antagonise security, will not shy from retaliating and will be nothing but a pain in the ass round after round.
At the end of the day we're all trying to have a bit of fun. However, your fun should only come at the expense of someone else if you are an antagonist.
What mickyan said rang with me quite a bit, playing sec is bland mostly (I like warden but feel like an arse when I do so I haven’t in like 9 months) but a good assistant can do what sec can with less stress and gear. I don’t get the same rush from stopping the dual esword with a flashbang as I do from throwing a corpse at him, and I don’t feel like this divine being everyome can trust as a nonantag, nor can people call me shitcurity when I take their fireaxe priveleges away because they kept smashing random windows and dragging a dead monkey around to unclean the floors.
Edit: I don’t think I mentioned the freedom enough. I don’t have to fight fuckface mcgee if I don’t want to for any reason, and I could spend the whole round making cake if I wanted. Most jobs look just fine fucking off or moonlighting, but not sec. Sec is also the only job that has no choice in all conversion modes, which also makes it less satisfying to succeed since you had to help that side anyways.
Maybe this is just me, but what puts me off the most as sec is I feel my weakness against any non human enemy, or human on meth or blahblah anything that can’t be stunned. It doesn’t help that laser weapons are not only trash against anything not weak to it, but run out of ammo SO FAST that only the captain’s laser will last a whole fight (juggernauts come to mind eespecially, they’ll eat an entire laser gun and CAN’T be hurt with your strongest weapon’s mere base 10 fire extinguisher strength) One taser bolt of five wins the fight, but the egun gets 10 lasers and it takes FIVE to down a target as opposed to three cheaper disaglers on the same gun? Really? Taser works because you can miss your bolts easy, but It’s just as easy to miss a laser and it feels laser guns were designed as if missing wouldn’t happen. Burn damage is even EASIER to heal than brute, since bruises being so common just means people churn through their bruise packs and are left with ointment. Also no burns. Also no, a limited supply of buckshot doesn’t calm my nerves with how big riot shitguns are. Even though it’s uncommon, as sec I always had the gnawing fear in my head “if a holoparasite or wraith jumps me, an assistant with a hatchet or skateboard would be better off. If it’s a juggernaut, there’s NOTHING I can do.
Just fucking remove assistants already.
I want to hear why they're so goddamn tied to the games identity and mechanics that tg13 could not exist without the shitty little greybacks, and why there is some inability of the leadership to do even simple shit like keep Assistant maintenance access removed.
This has been a long time problem and this is just another convo about the same damn bullshit that revolves around a shallow pool, a heavy portion of each round being useless fucking shitlers, and how several mechanics of the game (too long to fucking list here) make dealing with them overall untenable to the point there's no captain and security often enough and the players IC response now is to just keep doing whatever in a round since you 'just know one of those assistants is stealing the all access ID, handing out freebies at immigration checkpoint in arrivals, and tying up/killing the one sec officer you got.'
Oh, and if we lose players who fuck off elsewhere because they can't play assistant anymore? We're not losing much unless this is what you Want the server to be like.
Gamarr wrote:Just fucking remove assistants already.
I want to hear why they're so goddamn tied to the games identity and mechanics that tg13 could not exist without the shitty little greybacks, and why there is some inability of the leadership to do even simple shit like keep Assistant maintenance access removed.
This has been a long time problem and this is just another convo about the same damn bullshit that revolves around a shallow pool, a heavy portion of each round being useless fucking shitlers, and how several mechanics of the game (too long to fucking list here) make dealing with them overall untenable to the point there's no captain and security often enough and the players IC response now is to just keep doing whatever in a round since you 'just know one of those assistants is stealing the all access ID, handing out freebies at immigration checkpoint in arrivals, and tying up/killing the one sec officer you got.'
Oh, and if we lose players who fuck off elsewhere because they can't play assistant anymore? We're not losing much unless this is what you Want the server to be like.
What happens if the other jobs are taken or there's a new player
Make the hop do his job and handle the roster for once in their fucking lives like they are supposed to.
Or maybe just not give them 'crew' positions. Tourists come to mind, and maybe other avenues such as not just letting new shuttle arrivals for a period.