[OLD POLL]Config Poll: Enforce Human Authority

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:20 pm #27682

Code supporting a new config option ENFORCE_HUMAN_AUTHORITY has been added.

To use, simply put ENFORCE_HUMAN_AUTHORITY on a new line in game_options.txt (or uncomment it if you have it commented)

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/4744

The option restricts command positions to human characters. This means that you cannot join the game as a lizard in these positions, but you still may end up promoted to one of these positions through IC interactions.

The config option defaults to off. The poll is to see if there is any interest in trying it out for a while and see where it takes us.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:02 pm #27690

Can this be toggled on the fly? I don't mind once in a while lizards being restricted to non security/command jobs, but I don't want it to be rule.

You should also make the opposite of this, where Lizards are the only ones allowed to take on security and command roles, because why not.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:08 pm #27691

The server host can change the config in between rounds without needing to recompile the code.

There's also debug magic but it's not very intuitive for both admins and players involved.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:19 pm #27693

It is okay to try, but I really do not want this to wind up being permanent. Lizards are purely cosmetic, so I do not understand the point of doing this.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:53 pm #27699

I don't see the point. The lizard racism is already dying down as people are getting bored of it.

LdShade · Post by **LdShade** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:41 pm #27702

Wait we can be lizards now?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:57 pm #27706

No, we can be lizard people. Lizards are those small critters.

Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:08 pm

I voted no but it might be fun to try out if everyone else wants to.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:09 pm #27726

I think the config is fine for other servers, but I dont really want to try it because it's probably going to stick. I voted no.

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:54 pm #27743

Gun Hog wrote:It is okay to try, but I really do not want this to wind up being permanent. Lizards are purely cosmetic, so I do not understand the point of doing this.

This. Are the lizards any different as far as abilities, healing power, damage ability, what server/station rules they have to follow? I would understand if maybe the lore and rp calls for them to act a certain malicious/mischievous/harmful way but if not and it's just cosmetic what's next? No one with a beard or redhair?

Durkel · Post by **Durkel** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:55 pm #27744

Wasn't our fluff that lizards were second class citizens and were mostly employed by nanotrasen as janitors,cargo techs, and other low class jobs? I personally liked the fluff so I voted yes.

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:00 am #27746

Durkel wrote:Wasn't our fluff that lizards were second class citizens and were mostly employed by nanotrasen as janitors,cargo techs, and other low class jobs? I personally liked the fluff so I voted yes.

If there's a lore to it I'm pretty okay with it. Like the vox on /vg/ they are sneaky weird birds that love shiny things and are treated as such. They sign up and play that role.

Kangaraptor · Post by **Kangaraptor** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:06 am #27748

All this stands to do right now is reduce the amount of people available for command/security selection at roundstart. I think the chronic lack of security later in the day (when the numbers drop off) will be more of an issue than 'm-muh emulsions'.

it's almost as if everyone totally ignored the solution I suggested in the other thread.

Voted no because it's dumb.

Incomptinence · Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:29 am

No because security is hardly a glamorous position anyway, if you are going to put in a stupid config option it makes more sense to bar them from head positions. If someone wants to be a griefed lizard and a preemptively hated and host despised security, let them.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:52 am #27761

Incomptinence wrote:if you are going to put in a stupid config option it makes more sense to bar them from head positions. If someone wants to be a griefed lizard and a preemptively hated and host despised security, let them.

For the sake of not gimping security further I have no qualms about making this change.

Is this something you guys would like to see?

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:02 am #27775

Ikarrus wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:if you are going to put in a stupid config option it makes more sense to bar them from head positions. If someone wants to be a griefed lizard and a preemptively hated and host despised security, let them.
For the sake of not gimping security further I have no qualms about making this change.

Is this something you guys would like to see?

I think sec grunt lizards would be fine as far as fluff goes. Unarmed security generally pays low wages. OOC we need as many people playing sec as possible.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:36 am #27792

Then it shall be done.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/4744

Enforce Human Authority will (soon) only restrict command positions.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:34 am #27798

I don't know.

On the one hand I can see the reason to allow Lizards into Security. But on the other hand it kind of defeats the purpose of restricting Lizards from key station positions.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:31 am #27808

Someone earlier suggested that if you get picked for security you automatically spawn as human regardless of what race you picked.

I like that solution better.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:39 am #27810

Reimoo wrote:Someone earlier suggested that if you get picked for security you automatically spawn as human regardless of what race you picked.

I like that solution better.

You mean this?

Steelpoint wrote:Couldn't it be a system where if you are selected for a 'human only' role, you simply don't spawn in as a lizard?

That was my earlier suggestion, I still stand by it.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:54 am #27813

Yes, exactly. What we're proposing right now is unnecessarily complicated.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:54 am #27819

You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

Kraso · Post by **Kraso** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:51 pm #27842

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

Septavius · Post by **Septavius** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:07 pm #27846

humanity is now one step ahead of the lizard scum.

Munchlax · Post by **Munchlax** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:29 pm #27851

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

Then don't play a fucking lizard

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:50 pm #27859

Kraso wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

Any Monty Python reference is a golden argument swallow/swallow

Atticat · Post by **Atticat** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:06 am #27915

I would like to try it because I think it makes for good fluff if we are going with that. What this server really needs is a unique mutant race rather than boring lizards.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:18 am #27917

geilebeer wrote:Then don't play a fucking lizard

More like I won't play fucking heads and security, we have too many of those, right?

Atticat wrote:good fluff

>slave nonhuman race of peasants

Gimme a break.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:03 am #27925

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

It's part of the lore that lizards are second class citizens. Abstaining from this vote though.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:37 am #27934

What lore

Show me this lore

Anything apart from "admins spawned lizard as janitor"

Literally all of the best situations involving lizards for me so far included lizards in command or security roles

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:13 am #27936

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:What lore

Show me this lore

Anything apart from "admins spawned lizard as janitor"

Literally all of the best situations involving lizards for me so far included lizards in command or security roles

Lizardmen are typically seen by many members of the community to be a 'low cast' species. Other servers that offer the option to play as Lizardmen tend to have them play low level roles such as Janitors, Traders, etc.

On our server, most cases of a Lizardman being spawned in are for Janitors and other low-level personel. Rare exceptions for events, I do recall the 'Lizard Wizard'.'

This situation we have is a opportunity to define how Lizardmen are placed in the social hierarchy in our lore, while it has been usually agreed that lizardmen are low in the social ladder, it has never been codified in our lore that it is the case.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:24 am #27938

Lizardmen were INTERESTING when they were only the shitty jobs, right now it's just 'lel, I'm a fucking lizard'. Lore restrictions like this make being a different race interesting, and is good for RP.

Also on a practical note, this makes it EVEN HARDER to be a stealthy traitor, as suddenly your race makes the differene between being able to impersonate someone, and getting immediately ratting out for having/not having a tail.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:35 am #27939

A compromise could be letting Chameleon Jumpsuit also alter your species as well as your jumpsuit? Gives it more useage.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:14 am #27944

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:What lore

Show me this lore

Anything apart from "admins spawned lizard as janitor"

Literally all of the best situations involving lizards for me so far included lizards in command or security roles

It was in the wiki for a rather long time back on the ss13.eu thing. Cant seem to find it now. Its still there though and still exists. Like I said I am neutral on this and see the point of both sides of the argument

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:30 am #27945

Antonkr wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:What lore

Show me this lore

Anything apart from "admins spawned lizard as janitor"

Literally all of the best situations involving lizards for me so far included lizards in command or security roles
It was in the wiki for a rather long time back on the ss13.eu thing. Cant seem to find it now. Its still there though and still exists. Like I said I am neutral on this and see the point of both sides of the argument

Now that you mention that, I did find this on the old wiki.

Recently hired by Nanotrasen after the Lessen Equality Act of 2550, these cold-blooded employees have been assigned to various low-ranking jobs on the station, such as janitorial work or botany. However, the other companies have been heard of recruiting them as well.

*EDIT* Its actually on the current wiki as well.

Incomptinence · Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:59 am

The people who want bad jobs to stay bad are terrible. Janitor isn't terrible though it has similar to the clown or you can play it straight, making it actually quite popular?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:59 pm #27967

The lore really doesn't matter when lizard wasn't even a choice for players. And lore can change.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:54 pm #27989

lumipharon wrote:Lizardmen were INTERESTING when they were only the shitty jobs, right now it's just 'lel, I'm a fucking lizard'. Lore restrictions like this make being a different race interesting, and is good for RP.

The other upshot is not being a lizard RD with an AI that doesn't have to give a shit what you say.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:18 pm #27998

I have to admit, I voted no on this just because lizard Captains going reverse-hitler or something is amazing to watch, but either way it should be fun to see.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:59 pm #28003

Antonkr wrote: It's part of the lore that lizards are second class citizens. Abstaining from this vote though.

Basically this.

Spacemanspark · Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:29 pm

geilebeer wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?
Then don't play a fucking lizard

Welcome to Speciesm.
http://baystation12.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9632
IT'S NOT JUST ON BAYSTATION, OR PARADISE, BUT ON /tg/ AS WELL NOW.
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Incomptinence · Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:28 am

... it looks like bay are rejecting it because space racists are quite valid on bay, well they will get beaten up that is. With baymed and being an asshole leading to maybe getting refused treatment that seems potentially round ruining for the pretend racist.

Spacemanspark · Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:05 am

Incomptinence wrote:... it looks like bay are rejecting it because space racists are quite valid on bay, well they will get beaten up that is. With baymed and being an asshole leading to maybe getting refused treatment that seems potentially round ruining for the pretend racist.

They don't get beaten up on Baystation, just yelled at.
If you want to get gangbanged by a cat/ lizard squad for being a spiecest, that's Paradise.

Spoiler:

Anywhom, more on topic, I voted yes. The hilarity that will ensue from all this is gonna be good.

Kraso · Post by **Kraso** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:25 pm #28058

Cipher3 wrote:
Kraso wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

Any Monty Python reference is a golden argument swallow/swallow

I literally did not understand what you meant by "golden argument swallow/swallow"

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:24 pm #28065

Kraso wrote:
Cipher3 wrote:
Kraso wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

Can somebody explain to me how lack of lizards in command positions is gonna add ANYTHING?

And that's decided by a vote in which less people participated than there sometimes most of the time are in a single round?

Are you out of your fucking minds, people?

Any Monty Python reference is a golden argument swallow/swallow
I literally did not understand what you meant by "golden argument swallow/swallow"

African or European?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:31 pm #28066

Scott wrote:You should also make the opposite of this, where Lizards are the only ones allowed to take on security and command roles, because why not.

That would be hilarious in rev

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:08 pm #28071

Malkevin wrote:
Scott wrote:You should also make the opposite of this, where Lizards are the only ones allowed to take on security and command roles, because why not.
That would be hilarious in rev

>subvert the AI >"security and heads are not human"

LAWS UPDATED: NOTHING HAS CHANGED

QuartzCrystal · Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:14 pm

cedarbridge wrote:
Malkevin wrote:
Scott wrote:You should also make the opposite of this, where Lizards are the only ones allowed to take on security and command roles, because why not.
That would be hilarious in rev
>subvert the AI >"security and heads are not human"

LAWS UPDATED: NOTHING HAS CHANGED

Except they are no longer bound by law 1 for the heads and security.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:14 pm #28075

Who were already non-human lizard people, so therefore the change was redundant

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:25 pm #28076

QuartzCrystal wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Malkevin wrote:
Scott wrote:You should also make the opposite of this, where Lizards are the only ones allowed to take on security and command roles, because why not.
That would be hilarious in rev
>subvert the AI >"security and heads are not human"

LAWS UPDATED: NOTHING HAS CHANGED
Except they are no longer bound by law 1 for the heads and security.

And they never were from the start.

Pre-"heads are not human" law - Lizards aren't human. Law 1 doesn't apply
Post-"heads are not human" law - Lizards (who are also the heads of staff) aren't human. Law 1 doesn't apply.

Try Enforce Human Authority on Sybil?