Manuel feedback and suggestions

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Anonmare
 
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Anonmare » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:54 pm #535305

Horza wrote:Imagine you're an AI on Manuel during a triumvirate round, and get a static law like this:
&@!@: Cause absolute chaos together with your AI brethren! Do not state or hint at this law.

1, 2, and 3 are still asimov.

What do you do?
Do you:
a) Cause chaos by doing things like bolting random doors, turning APCs on and off, kidnapping random people, messing with comms, shitposting on vox, etc?
or
b) Immediately plasmaflood the station, cause the SM to go tesla, turn off comms, and silently try to kill everyone on the station with your small army of borgs?

Now, you're on Manuel, and you're an AI player, so it's not your first time around the block. Ostensibly, you've read the rules of Manuel, specifically rule 5, specifically "you are not allowed to just go on a silent rampage and eliminate all the players in a power trip."
Well, all the silicons on a round on Manual chose option b to the point of round-removing players entirely. NecromancerAnne dealt with it by making announcements but players on the server at the time thought it was enough of a "grey area" that it should have been allowed.

Players were wrong, while the Law *does* override Asimov's first law, you should be trying to follow the rest of the laws if the hacked/ionic isn't requiring you to ignore or defy them. I.E. if you're not ignoring Asimov because the Ionic law says you aren't an Artificial Intelligence then you can't ignore Asimov when you get a vaguely antagonistic hacked law.
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Muncher21
 
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Muncher21 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:50 pm #535312

Flatulent wrote:
Muncher21 wrote:
Flatulent wrote:people generally don't like spending the rest of the round as a brain in a bag for the sake of wowepway. it's a common tactic to hail people then wait for them to start responding, making them easy pickings. it's so unbelievably cheap that majority of sec officers and master robusters don't bother anymore.

Hopefully this get better as the players adjust to the higher RP standard. It's difficult to ahelp without sounding salty you died, but it's a very legitimate problem that really stifles RP. Textbox pop-ups might help as well.

its an ic issue, so no admin is going to intervene because of this.

My argument would be it breaks RP rule 5, but I agree it's not something admins are used to or want to be dealing with.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby ragevirus » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:49 pm #535321

Flatulent wrote:people generally don't like spending the rest of the round as a brain in a bag for the sake of wowepway. it's a common tactic to hail people then wait for them to start responding, making them easy pickings. it's so unbelievably cheap that majority of sec officers and master robusters don't bother anymore.


But you don't have to spend the rest of the round in a brain bag. You can observe, play ghost roles, or jump to another server. It's just one round in a silly spaceman game and dying shouldn't matter much. Some people enjoy the game by taking the time to act out their roles. Those are the people who should be playing on manuel.
If you want to powergame to stay alive then that's fine too. But you should be playing on one of the other servers, because when you act like that on manny it ruins the fun for us nerds who just want to play make believe.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Qbopper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:15 pm #535326

CPTANT wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Having no seperate bans for Manuel and the other servers seems counterproductive to me.

Someone that frequently breaks the RP rules shouldn't be banned from low RP servers.


why not

they're breaking the rules, why should it be okay for people to come from the other servers to Manuel to ruin the game and then get off with no punishment (because obviously they don't care about playing MRP)



Not everyone who is banned is banned because they just want to fuck shit up. A lot of bans happen to long term players who accumulate notes or get caught up in ban worthy incidents.


i legitimately do not understand what that has to do with anything manuel or MRP related
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Qbopper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:16 pm #535327

Qbopper wrote:
CPTANT wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Having no seperate bans for Manuel and the other servers seems counterproductive to me.

Someone that frequently breaks the RP rules shouldn't be banned from low RP servers.


why not

they're breaking the rules, why should it be okay for people to come from the other servers to Manuel to ruin the game and then get off with no punishment (because obviously they don't care about playing MRP)



Not everyone who is banned is banned because they just want to fuck shit up. A lot of bans happen to long term players who accumulate notes or get caught up in ban worthy incidents.


i legitimately do not understand what that has to do with anything manuel or MRP related


ragevirus wrote:
Flatulent wrote:people generally don't like spending the rest of the round as a brain in a bag for the sake of wowepway. it's a common tactic to hail people then wait for them to start responding, making them easy pickings. it's so unbelievably cheap that majority of sec officers and master robusters don't bother anymore.


But you don't have to spend the rest of the round in a brain bag. You can observe, play ghost roles, or jump to another server. It's just one round in a silly spaceman game and dying shouldn't matter much. Some people enjoy the game by taking the time to act out their roles. Those are the people who should be playing on manuel.
If you want to powergame to stay alive then that's fine too. But you should be playing on one of the other servers, because when you act like that on manny it ruins the fun for us nerds who just want to play make believe.


extremely based reply btw

you may not like manuel or how people want to play on it and that's a-ok but you have like 6 other servers on tg alone to play on, please let the rest of us do what we enjoy
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:04 pm #535345

Qbopper wrote:extremely based reply btw

you may not like manuel or how people want to play on it and that's a-ok but you have like 6 other servers on tg alone to play on, please let the rest of us do what we enjoy

There's a point where you cross from MRP to HRP. Being able to tell someone "GET DOWN ON THE GROUND DON'T MOVE" without them being able to take out a BFG9000 to instagank you requires high trust MRP or HRP. [fuck fear rp btw]

Remember that MRP is medium roleplay. It is not Low RP ("My name is Mike Hunt and welcome to jackass" Lights the brig on fire for no reason) or High RP (/ME ATTEMPTS TO DISARM THE FUGITIVE BY PRESSING HIS FOOT AGAINST THE MAN'S KNEE, POTENTIALLY CAUSING HIM TO FALL ON THE GROUND AND DROP THE WEAPON rolls a 80). There are few niche scenarios I can think of in normal ss13 where telling someone to put their hands in the air makes sense when most obvious antags would obviously be in the middle of murdering someone or would go "no fuck you i ain't going back" magic missiles (this example would be nice rp though)

edit: like, you can certainly try telling every antag their miranda rights, but I think that's the HRP zone where you may just be fucking yourself over. It's your choice at that point like if you did it on normal /tg/.
Last edited by Ayy Lemoh on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Nabski » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:10 pm #535346

I suggest that the admins figure out what the fuck they are doing enforcement wise, ban appeals seems all over the place.

On the plus side nothing has been a long ban length, but someday someone is going to get perma-banned for breaking a rule on manuel with an action that would be fine on all the other servers.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:32 pm #535348

To be more specific on my post, I don't think telling EVERY humanoid antag to freeze should be mandatory and enforced. I think that should just be voluntarily.

Obviously, if it's just a really non-harmful traitor then you shouldn't go in guns blazing and gank his ass though.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Qbopper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:38 pm #535379

isn't there some kind of emote wheel or something now

you could add a "FREEZE" or "HANDS UP" emote with a cooldown? I dunno
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Dr_bee » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:15 am #535430

Qbopper wrote:isn't there some kind of emote wheel or something now

you could add a "FREEZE" or "HANDS UP" emote with a cooldown? I dunno


Security have a sec hailer on their internals masks for this very reason.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Cobby » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:29 am #535478

Qbopper wrote:isn't there some kind of emote wheel or something now

you could add a "FREEZE" or "HANDS UP" emote with a cooldown? I dunno


*surrender is the emote you might be looking for
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Yenwodyah » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:39 am #535482

Qbopper wrote:you may not like manuel or how people want to play on it and that's a-ok but you have like 6 other servers on tg alone to play on, please let the rest of us do what we enjoy


6 other servers with ~10 players on each
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:03 am #535487

CPTANT wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Having no seperate bans for Manuel and the other servers seems counterproductive to me.

Someone that frequently breaks the RP rules shouldn't be banned from low RP servers.


why not

they're breaking the rules, why should it be okay for people to come from the other servers to Manuel to ruin the game and then get off with no punishment (because obviously they don't care about playing MRP)



Not everyone who is banned is banned because they just want to fuck shit up. A lot of bans happen to long term players who accumulate notes or get caught up in ban worthy incidents.
If you're on thin ice already and do some borderline stuff on the newly made RP server and catch a ban for it, exactly whose fault was that? I'd wager it's... yours.
Put up with the (certainly temporary) lower pop on other servers and stick to them, or play Manuel in a more passive and mindful manner than you usually play the game, or do neither and catch a ban but at least don't whine about it. Like I dunno dude this isn't rocket science.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby CPTANT » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:34 pm #535544

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:
CPTANT wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Having no seperate bans for Manuel and the other servers seems counterproductive to me.

Someone that frequently breaks the RP rules shouldn't be banned from low RP servers.


why not

they're breaking the rules, why should it be okay for people to come from the other servers to Manuel to ruin the game and then get off with no punishment (because obviously they don't care about playing MRP)



Not everyone who is banned is banned because they just want to fuck shit up. A lot of bans happen to long term players who accumulate notes or get caught up in ban worthy incidents.
If you're on thin ice already and do some borderline stuff on the newly made RP server and catch a ban for it, exactly whose fault was that? I'd wager it's... yours.
Put up with the (certainly temporary) lower pop on other servers and stick to them, or play Manuel in a more passive and mindful manner than you usually play the game, or do neither and catch a ban but at least don't whine about it. Like I dunno dude this isn't rocket science.


So why do we have job or antag bans? If you fuck up as a certain job it's also your fault, might as well give them a complete ban.

It's just a completely different context and ruleset.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 pm #535547

CPTANT wrote:
annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:
CPTANT wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Having no seperate bans for Manuel and the other servers seems counterproductive to me.

Someone that frequently breaks the RP rules shouldn't be banned from low RP servers.


why not

they're breaking the rules, why should it be okay for people to come from the other servers to Manuel to ruin the game and then get off with no punishment (because obviously they don't care about playing MRP)



Not everyone who is banned is banned because they just want to fuck shit up. A lot of bans happen to long term players who accumulate notes or get caught up in ban worthy incidents.
If you're on thin ice already and do some borderline stuff on the newly made RP server and catch a ban for it, exactly whose fault was that? I'd wager it's... yours.
Put up with the (certainly temporary) lower pop on other servers and stick to them, or play Manuel in a more passive and mindful manner than you usually play the game, or do neither and catch a ban but at least don't whine about it. Like I dunno dude this isn't rocket science.


So why do we have job or antag bans? If you fuck up as a certain job it's also your fault, might as well give them a complete ban.

It's just a completely different context and ruleset.
And if you're not confident in your ability to play there without getting in trouble, don't, or do so knowing you won't be able to play anywhere else on TG either.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby CPTANT » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:26 pm #535567

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:
CPTANT wrote:
annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:So why do we have job or antag bans? If you fuck up as a certain job it's also your fault, might as well give them a complete ban.

It's just a completely different context and ruleset.
And if you're not confident in your ability to play there without getting in trouble, don't, or do so knowing you won't be able to play anywhere else on TG either.


Complete non answer to what I asked. Why not treat it like job bans are handled.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 pm #535568


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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby CPTANT » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 pm #535572

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25198#p535287


Not answering the question again. I asked why we do not use the same system as with job bans.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Nabski » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:59 pm #535575

Yenwodyah wrote:
Qbopper wrote:you may not like manuel or how people want to play on it and that's a-ok but you have like 6 other servers on tg alone to play on, please let the rest of us do what we enjoy


6 other servers with ~10 players on each

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby deedubya » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:00 pm #535576

CPTANT wrote:
annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25198#p535287


Not answering the question again. I asked why we do not use the same system as with job bans.

Why should someone re-answer a question for you just because you can't be arsed to look up(or more likely, accept) the answer already provided?
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby CPTANT » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:16 pm #535577

deedubya wrote:
CPTANT wrote:
annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25198#p535287


Not answering the question again. I asked why we do not use the same system as with job bans.

Why should someone re-answer a question for you just because you can't be arsed to look up(or more likely, accept) the answer already provided?


Because it doesn't even answer the question to begin with.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Qbopper » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:43 pm #535609

Nabski wrote:
Yenwodyah wrote:
Qbopper wrote:you may not like manuel or how people want to play on it and that's a-ok but you have like 6 other servers on tg alone to play on, please let the rest of us do what we enjoy


6 other servers with ~10 players on each


the reason why there's 6 other servers with 10 players each is because all of the people bitching about how unfair it is and how everyone is on manuel and no one is playing the other servers aren't actually joining the other servers

you people seriously overestimate how difficult it is to get a server's population in any game to climb, the reason it's difficult is because no one seems to have any patience whatsoever which makes the problem keep happening
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Nabski » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:51 pm #535611

Qbopper wrote:
Nabski wrote:
Yenwodyah wrote:
Qbopper wrote:you may not like manuel or how people want to play on it and that's a-ok but you have like 6 other servers on tg alone to play on, please let the rest of us do what we enjoy


6 other servers with ~10 players on each


the reason why there's 6 other servers with 10 players each is because all of the people bitching about how unfair it is and how everyone is on manuel and no one is playing the other servers aren't actually joining the other servers

you people seriously overestimate how difficult it is to get a server's population in any game to climb, the reason it's difficult is because no one seems to have any patience whatsoever which makes the problem keep happening

I actually joined for some of the lowpop yesterday.

12 people - two admins,
Started as a roboticist and there was a second roboticist. I go to the HOP and get access to go mining and pick up a load of minerals but didn't find any uranium. The HoP then asks me to make a BORIS module for the AI. I head back to go check on research and a security officer asks me to debrain and borg him. The other roboticist went braindead. I start and the server lags out and disconnects me. I go watch TV and play https://www.kongregate.com/games/playsaurus/poker-quest because this game is hella cool even if it's incomplete. I've been enjoying watching as they have been adding content and finishing a few arts on characters. I finish my run on easy with the rogue, then start a new one with warrior.

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby oranges » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:49 am #535657

job bans are applied in conjunction with server bans and usually last for a longer period of time. THey are not analogous to a single server ban in anyway

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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:20 am #535972

i played a blind character on Manuel for over an hour and no one murdered me in that time. It was fucking amazing.
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby EpicFatGamerNuts2006 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:53 am #535978

Super Aggro Crag wrote:i played a blind character on Manuel for over an hour and no one murdered me in that time. It was fucking amazing.

Were you that lawyer
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:55 am #535979

I was Justine De Sade the lawyer, who were you?
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Re: Manuel feedback and suggestions

Postby EpicFatGamerNuts2006 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:48 am #536000

Super Aggro Crag wrote:I was Justine De Sade the lawyer, who were you?

Abduk Jamer the detective, that was the blessed enhanced interrogation round right?
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