Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

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Helios
 
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Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Helios » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:13 am #555759

Did anyone else notice occasionally having a round where medbay isn't on their game, and you end up repeatedly dying in medbay, as they are unable to revive you?

It's kind of an edge case situation, but ending up in limbo, where your character isn't dead so you can ghost, but isn't alive and you're in perpetual crit kind of sucks. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen more since the removal. Did other people have similar experiences? In the most recent situation, I think it was because they accidentally had me overdosing on some drugs, like Epinephrine, and even if I got revived I still had it in my blood and would go back into crit and die.



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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby JusticeGoat » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:45 am #555760

People decided the game needed to be hardcore, and we can't support two versions of the game so its either arcade fast pace or slowed down for RP where things are removed rather than improved or listening to any feedback from the people who play.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:57 am #555761

Honestly Helios. I recommend figuring out some sort of roundstart strategy with pod-personing. Maybe co-operate with botany, or ask them for one of their own trays and a cabbage and try to make a pod-person tray on the side.

Even botany mutating got neutered though. So.....it's a tough slice no matter where you look.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:41 am #555812

You can succumb while in crit
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:55 am #555825

epipen od isnt that bad to send you back to crit repeatly, in your case its either bloodloss (perpetual crit state) or liver failure (they gave you the wrong meds)

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Calomel » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:41 am #555839

If anything, right now, the biggest problem is ye old poison. Purge stomach doesn't work forever (Once the person run out of nutrient he's done vomitting), and high amounts of poison are irrecoverable otherwise since ytou can't feed dead people pentetic/salbutamol. but really, the problem is that most people will get organ damage too quickly when they die in maints or such, and by the time they get in a stasis bed (Assuming they aren't all occupied, and taht there is power on the station, and that medbay hasn't been bombed to the stone age yet), the recovery process requires a bunch of transplants (Which requires autolathe or a supply of stored organs), a lengthy session of surgery and a defib. It can easily take 30 minutes to get a ded man to life properly, even if you everything efficiently. If the doctor has any lack of familiarity, it will take longer yet.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Armhulen » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:34 pm #555913

i've been a lot more careful to not die now and i like that others have to do that too, but chems is the really kinda fucked part of medbay healing yeah
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby IkeTG » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:40 pm #555914

just dont die

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Flatulent » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:47 pm #555915

what if I get random event heart attack while playing animal crossing on my pda in maint locker and instantly die
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Anonmare » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:55 pm #555919

Flatulent wrote:what if I get random event heart attack while playing animal crossing on my pda in maint locker and instantly die

No joke you can fix that with a shock grille
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby oranges » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:56 pm #555920

I hold no stock in the argument that we can't make the game better because our players are too stupid sorry.

If you want to help practically, update the wiki

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Armhulen » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:00 am #555955

IkeTG wrote:just dont die

pre cloning was a shit ton of suicide runs just to see if you could own the antag/sec/any conflict you made because you could get back in the game pretty easy if they didn't destroy your body (lol ahelp) now it's much harder to get back in the game for poopy behavior

i'd be more excited to see a return of a dangerous station that can kill you next
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby deedubya » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:42 am #555964

JusticeGoat wrote:People decided the game needed to be hardcore, and we can't support two versions of the game so its either arcade fast pace or slowed down for RP where things are removed rather than improved or listening to any feedback from the people who play.

It's actually possible to have done just this. Could have run clooner removal as a "permanent" testmerge on Manuel, and left the other servers running main branch.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Armhulen » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:47 am #555965

deedubya wrote:
JusticeGoat wrote:People decided the game needed to be hardcore, and we can't support two versions of the game so its either arcade fast pace or slowed down for RP where things are removed rather than improved or listening to any feedback from the people who play.

It's actually possible to have done just this. Could have run clooner removal as a "permanent" testmerge on Manuel, and left the other servers running main branch.

not really maintainable on a code side of things
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby oranges » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:02 am #555968

Biting on boomerstation bait

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby PKPenguin321 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:57 am #555997

deedubya wrote:
JusticeGoat wrote:People decided the game needed to be hardcore, and we can't support two versions of the game so its either arcade fast pace or slowed down for RP where things are removed rather than improved or listening to any feedback from the people who play.

It's actually possible to have done just this. Could have run clooner removal as a "permanent" testmerge on Manuel, and left the other servers running main branch.

make it a config option in that case, youre overcomplicating it
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby deedubya » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 am #556022

PKPenguin321 wrote:
deedubya wrote:
JusticeGoat wrote:People decided the game needed to be hardcore, and we can't support two versions of the game so its either arcade fast pace or slowed down for RP where things are removed rather than improved or listening to any feedback from the people who play.

It's actually possible to have done just this. Could have run clooner removal as a "permanent" testmerge on Manuel, and left the other servers running main branch.

make it a config option in that case, youre overcomplicating it

making it a config would also keep the malf clooner ruins too, that's not a bad idea
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby CDranzer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:41 am #556024

Don't worry, they're removing stasis beds and replacing them with a dozen machines that don't do anything. Soon you won't have to worry about being revived every five seconds, you'll just stay dead.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby deedubya » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:50 am #556029

CDranzer wrote:Don't worry, they're removing stasis beds and replacing them with a dozen machines that don't do anything. Soon you won't have to worry about being revived every five seconds, you'll just stay dead.

Yeah, I saw that. Actually made me chuckle a bit. First PR after getting the github back? More medbay nerfs.

I still don't understand why they're trying to code an HRP medical system for an LRP/NRP playerbase.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby PKPenguin321 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:25 am #556049

deedubya wrote:
CDranzer wrote:Don't worry, they're removing stasis beds and replacing them with a dozen machines that don't do anything. Soon you won't have to worry about being revived every five seconds, you'll just stay dead.

Yeah, I saw that. Actually made me chuckle a bit. First PR after getting the github back? More medbay nerfs.

I still don't understand why they're trying to code an HRP medical system for an LRP/NRP playerbase.

to its credit it really is not an "HRP" medical system, those are much worse
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Whoneedspacee » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:56 am #556054

medbay coders be like “more things means better, right?”

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Arianya » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:58 am #556055

anyone who doesn't think that you could end up in this situation during cloners never played during the days of quick cloning.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby chocolate_bickie » Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:31 am #556062

Even if you know what your doing replacing several organs takes time and surgical skill dosen't level up fast enough to make up for it unless you powergame Remove embedded objects.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:39 am #556091

chocolate_bickie wrote:Even if you know what your doing replacing several organs takes time and surgical skill dosen't level up fast enough to make up for it unless you powergame Remove embedded objects.

you are like a baby there is already a legendary skill in 5 min strat made by me

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Omni » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:51 pm #556120

How is occasional collective incompetence of medbay fucking with people's round anyhow different from incompetent engineering leaving station devoid of power, incompetent cargo leaving station without mats/money for articles of first need in some situations or incompetent security throwing station into chaos and anarchy?
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby cacogen » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:54 pm #556124

cause i'm dead
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby CPTANT » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:55 pm #556125

Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence


This is a good thing.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Gamarr » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:42 pm #556144

It's like the game makes your life more valuable since you have to actually watch out for yourself or something.
Also, if medbay is too incompetent routinely then there's an answer for that and it was the same for engineering releasing the sing at the start of the story.
Take some responsibility and do it yourself, maybe.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Lumbermancer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:28 pm #556176

Here's an idea for Manuel: there's no cloning, no defibs, no anything. People die when killed. But then you can respawn with a new character after short cooldown.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Cobby » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:44 pm #556198

This just means medical has been elevated to a department that matters, I don't see an issue with this.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:32 pm #556207

Cobby wrote:This just means medical has been elevated to a department that matters, I don't see an issue with this.


antags do be kinda deadly tho

3 hits you with an e-sword and 11 tc bombs your department

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Timonk » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:12 am #556245

deedubya wrote:
JusticeGoat wrote:People decided the game needed to be hardcore, and we can't support two versions of the game so its either arcade fast pace or slowed down for RP where things are removed rather than improved or listening to any feedback from the people who play.

It's actually possible to have done just this. Could have run clooner removal as a "permanent" testmerge on Manuel, and left the other servers running main branch.

That way you would have to maintain 10 maps instead of 5. One with cloning, one without.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Helios » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:45 am #556266

Calomel wrote:If anything, right now, the biggest problem is ye old poison. Purge stomach doesn't work forever (Once the person run out of nutrient he's done vomitting), and high amounts of poison are irrecoverable otherwise since ytou can't feed dead people pentetic/salbutamol. but really, the problem is that most people will get organ damage too quickly when they die in maints or such, and by the time they get in a stasis bed (Assuming they aren't all occupied, and taht there is power on the station, and that medbay hasn't been bombed to the stone age yet), the recovery process requires a bunch of transplants (Which requires autolathe or a supply of stored organs), a lengthy session of surgery and a defib. It can easily take 30 minutes to get a ded man to life properly, even if you everything efficiently. If the doctor has any lack of familiarity, it will take longer yet.

That's awful
Arianya wrote:anyone who doesn't think that you could end up in this situation during cloners never played during the days of quick cloning.

This is true. But this was only an issue when half the station was dead so quick cloning was necessary.
If there's 10 people in line for the cloner, I can succumb by whispering, if they keep fucking up people's cloning, and whisper to them stop turning off the power while they're by the tank

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:02 am #556335

simple just dont be on the losing side

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Akrilla » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:35 pm #556447

Is tg wanting to become more rp orienated, it feels the code wants it that way but the administration/policy side is still the same. That's my opinion on things.
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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Istoprocent1 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:22 am #556475

Akrilla wrote:Is tg wanting to become more rp orienated, it feels the code wants it that way but the administration/policy side is still the same. That's my opinion on things.


I would disagree. Only way to become more RP oriented is...
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by SLOWING DOWN the game. This means removing most of the weapons from regular crew, toxins, singletanks, 1 hit ggs in general (cult, borg, flash) etc.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 pm #556576

There doesn't need to be a failsafe for medbay incompetence. If medbay is incompetent there should be consequences, just like there are consequences if any other department is incompetent.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:32 pm #556580

The RP level we're at right now is just fine thanks.

Increasing it only serves to gut actual fun mechanics and battles, with words words words words and emotes.

for an example, antags on paradise can't do a thing without getting banned. Even attacking sec attacking them! would cop a ban.

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Re: Removing Cloner removes a failsafe for Medbay incompetence

Postby actioninja » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:49 am #556627

Shadowflame909 wrote:The RP level we're at right now is just fine thanks.

Increasing it only serves to gut actual fun mechanics and battles, with words words words words and emotes.

for an example, antags on paradise can't do a thing without getting banned. Even attacking sec attacking them! would cop a ban.

that's just cause paradise fucking sucks
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