RP is at a dangerous low

[Super Aggro Crag]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Wouldnt work for traitors because theyre the driving force of the round and their objectives are very dull.

Abductees are supposed to be a fun weird sideshow.

And there has to be a middle ground bewteen forcing rp and silent death match.

I think you missed my point. By nerfing stuns, it would make combat far more responsive to every party involved, so it would make players feel like taking risks (rping, aka standing still) will be much less of a risk than it is currently, while also making the combat only slightly less deadly than it is. It would organically tell players that RPing out of situations could be more fun and more rewarding than silently stunning and killing someone due to it being much harder.

it'd also make security's job a shitload harder to do so they'd just start passing out lethal guns and shooting shitters instead of arresting them.

[Zilenan91]

Yeah. If you're resisting arrest instead of going with them you're gonna get your shit kicked in, as it should be.

[iamgoofball]

I want them to leave.

That's a horrible way to treat your fellow players, and if everyone who you wanted to leave left, then we'd have 20 players at most on peak, and at that point we're just another roleplay focused ss13 server that doesn't have very much combat, putting us in direct competition with about half the existing SS13 servers, including servers that are much more popular than TG.

I RP every round. Last night I acquired a chicken outfit and role played Hedy Algebra larping as her fursona, Henwig Algebra. I clucked a lot. I died eventually but it was Ok cuz I had fun.

Shit like this IS low rp nowadays faggot, why are you complaining

if we were to become heavy RP or medium RP you'd get b&'d for doing this shit''

it'd also make security's job a shitload harder to do so they'd just start passing out lethal guns and shooting shitters instead of arresting them.

right now it's easier to build an autocloner in the permabrig cell, force scan everyone, and just lethal down prisoners and collect their gear from the corpse and hand it back to them at the end of their sentence than it is to go through this fun procedure:

>Make arrest
>Greyshit starts screaming for everyone to help them over comms
>All other greyshits show up and start fucking with you, stealing all your gear and the prisoner
>If they don't steal the gear, you end up tasing them all, and then they start going lethals against you for tasing them, because muh escalation RP memes
>you end up either dead, the prisoner escaped, or being admin PM'd for murdering 3 assistants, or a combo of the 3
>If you actually succeed with the arrest, they'll greytide the brig and break the fucker out, resulting in security murdering them for it
>Then security gets b& because :^)

[Cheimon]

Having a level of roleplay can be great fun, and to get more of it all you need to do is either make rules and enforce them, or just provide incentives for good roleplay. Right now there are no rules forcing you to roleplay and if you do so, you're putting yourself at greater risk of death in a number of job roles.

Part of the reason I started playing here was because I wanted some roleplay without stupid "roleplay means not knowing how the game works" shit I saw on other servers. That sort of hardcore "I know it might seem obvious, but you can't be sure gun running gangs will end violently" idiot ball type stuff.

All I want is for people to talk a bit more. Wordless or overly efficient communication isn't nearly as much fun. I want to have actual conversations, where possible, to interact with people, and not just to have people ignore me or never want to interact.

[Ricotez]

Your incentive for roleplay is that you get stuff done that you wouldn't get if everyone powergamed.

Say that you want to become a space clown who performs in hard vacuums outside people's windows, and ask the HoP for access to EVA. If the HoP is a powergamer they would never give that access to you. But if the two of you roleplay, the HoP might be much more inclined to give it to you. And if you perform the space dance of your people in front of the HoS's window while you secretly break into the Armoury, you even combine RP with actually trying to accomplish objectives.

[DaemonBomb]

snip

I think when most of us are saying "RP" we aren't talking about High RP or even medium RP.
We are talking about caring about literally anything other than 1) Surviving and 2) Getting/preventing greentext.

[Danowar]

One of the best rounds I've had recently was when a holoparasite I had kept acting like a proper servant to me, and then continued to be my vanguard even after some admin-spawned magicarp polymorphed it into a rather-confused girl. I really dig it when people get into their roles like that, but it rarely seems to happen anymore.

[DaemonBomb]

One of the best rounds I've had recently was when a holoparasite I had kept acting like a proper servant to me, and then continued to be my vanguard even after some admin-spawned magicarp polymorphed it into a rather-confused girl. I really dig it when people get into their roles like that, but it rarely seems to happen anymore.

That's pretty adorable, tbh fam smh

[AnonymousNow]

Thank fuck for this thread. I thought I was the only person noticing our stagnation.

There's been plenty of solid solutions that have been posted in this thread and in threads of bygone eras, but one that will definitely be both effective and controversial has been preying on my mind for a time... basically, admins BWOINKing a person if they feel that their actions are not in the spirit of the game. That means that, if a course of action doesn't make a lot of sense for a player - antagonist or not - AND (being the important word, the one that many detractors will conveniently forget) is blatantly antisocial, then their approach to the game should come under enough question to necessitate a BWOINK ARE YOU BEING SHIT FOR A GOOD REASON KIDDO. It was being done, to some degree, when I was an AO, and we were better for it.

And, as I'm reading up on this (and admittedly being distracted by other things, but that's life), I see that Goof has found another issue he wants to swing his gigantic, meaty phallus into. "Vocal minority!", says he! "Get out of here, you dinosaurs - with your "interaction" and your "communication". Move over for the cool new kids, with our memes and powergaming! It's HIP and RAD! YOU'RE TURNING US INTO BAAAAAAAAAY~!!".

But seriously, I remember this server as being a mid-roleplay base, and again, I've seen so many instances where - for lack of a better term - Goonish decisions were justified with the "DO YOU WANT US TO TURN INTO BAY?!" boogieman. Of course we don't want realism, though of course that's an easy thing to attack; at the same time, I don't think we should pander to a bunch of people who came here because of /v/ and /vg/, and I am absolutely certain that we're at so low an ebb with roleplay right now (and falling) that we're not only at our lowest point for roleplay (medium RP is a distant goddamn memory, literally YEARS away), but we're also going to match Hippie and Goon very shortly, if we haven't already. I eagerly await iamgoofball's dedicated fart hotkey PR.

And we definitely need to take action if we're going to fix things. Yes, I said fix - as if to imply things are broken. I have seen many discussions on many subjects end with many ideas and much patting of backs, only for topics that actually have a shadowy figure in a cowl that vanishes off to a hidden depot full of schemers and deciders that exist on the public transport vehicles abound to actually get anywhere.

Honestly, the way to fix the server isn't even necessarily roleplay. It might be, but an important first step will be to try to encourage the spirit of !!FUN!!, and most importantly, nix the kinds of playstyles and attitudes which are openly, deliberately out to halt other players' enjoyment of the game. This is the only game I know where stopping other people from playing for an hour or more at a time is actively encouraged, and it grips my shit - it makes sense to kill your target, it makes sense to kill the witnesses, it even kinda makes sense to kill the department so as not to arouse suspicion, but specifically hunting down every last person you can find or lurking around the arrivals corridors so you can count five Mississippis to when the newly spawned people leave the shuttle, lick your lips and whisper "VAAAAAALIIIIIID..." does not.

In the olden days of the AI satellite malfunction, where we still had humanoid cyborgs, I had an instance where I, as a malfunctioning AI, determined that the station was run by monkeys. Well, it made sense, didn't it? Nanotrasen had access to a lot of monkeys, many of which had to be smart enough to run a station if they could write the works of Shakespeare; if these crewmen weren't human, they must've been apes. And they seemed harmless enough. Yes, there was an outbreak of some sort which required my intervention, but this couldn't possibly be it.

My engineering cyborg was happy enough with this. My newly-made security cyborg asked me when I was killing them. "Why should we be killing them? They don't seem to be a problem", I said (also, because I was very much NOT shocking doors, releasing plasma etc., I was progressing perfectly fine the stealthy way). Secborg asked if this meant no murderboning. I said "What the hell? No. No, do not kill our crew."

So that security cyborg announced to the whole crew that I was malfunctioning, and logged. Because I said it couldn't kill the crew.

This story has a happy ending, though, as with some very tense negotiation I managed to keep those coming to my newly relocated core at bay; we spoke, and negotiated, and the leader (CE, I think) realised that I (being the character, the AI, not the player) was only a threat if, through the crew's actions, I became convinced that THEY were the outbreak. We spoke at length, cyborg and security eyeing each other up, waiting for the other to cave and open fire... but they never did. One person Leeroy Jenkins'd in to fire potshots at me with a laser; he was stunned and removed by the CHIEF ENGINEER as he continued negotiations. In the end, I took control of the station systems, denied the nuke, and the station went into its uncertain, but optimistic future with an AI that didn't really know how to interact with its station's crew.

Two very indicative examples in one story. We've always had shitters, who think of roleplaying as being a hindrance to MLG 420 NOSCOPE BODYCOUNT BOYEEEE - and we've always had roleplayers, because this is supposed to be a home for us, too. We're currently in a situation where the desire to murderbone has subverted the playerbase, to the point where people are calling the shuttle under wishy-washy pretense, as thinly veiled attempts to get themselves into a position where they can roll for antagonist again, happily sacrificing everyone else's rounds for it; tell me, is this optimal behaviour?

tl;dr - we need to start by getting admins to examine situations as and when, determine whether or not they're cases where people are openly acting out of spite to everyone else, and then bop those people who are. I can't stress the simplicity of this enough, and yet I know it's going to be misinterpreted.

[DrPillzRedux]

We've already fallen below goon on the rp scale though.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I want them to leave.

That's a horrible way to treat your fellow players, and if everyone who you wanted to leave left, then we'd have 20 players at most on peak, and at that point we're just another roleplay focused ss13 server that doesn't have very much combat, putting us in direct competition with about half the existing SS13 servers, including servers that are much more popular than TG.

I RP every round. Last night I acquired a chicken outfit and role played Hedy Algebra larping as her fursona, Henwig Algebra. I clucked a lot. I died eventually but it was Ok cuz I had fun.

Shit like this IS low rp nowadays faggot, why are you complaining

if we were to become heavy RP or medium RP you'd get b&'d for doing this shit''

it'd also make security's job a shitload harder to do so they'd just start passing out lethal guns and shooting shitters instead of arresting them.

right now it's easier to build an autocloner in the permabrig cell, force scan everyone, and just lethal down prisoners and collect their gear from the corpse and hand it back to them at the end of their sentence than it is to go through this fun procedure:

>Make arrest
>Greyshit starts screaming for everyone to help them over comms
>All other greyshits show up and start fucking with you, stealing all your gear and the prisoner
>If they don't steal the gear, you end up tasing them all, and then they start going lethals against you for tasing them, because muh escalation RP memes
>you end up either dead, the prisoner escaped, or being admin PM'd for murdering 3 assistants, or a combo of the 3
>If you actually succeed with the arrest, they'll greytide the brig and break the fucker out, resulting in security murdering them for it
>Then security gets b& because :^)

i did NOT give you permission to quote me goofball, consider yourself ON NOTICE for this breach of etiquette.

also don't call me a faggot you gormless sheepwanker, yes, what i did is "low rp" the fact is most of the station DOESN'T EVEN low RP at this point. I don't give a hairy dingle about Revolver Ocelot and Kaz Miller and Venom Snake all spawning as heads and referring to the brig as "Mother Base" or Iroquois Pliskin creeping around in a cardboard box and practicing tactical rolls, I give a shit about Mononymous Greyshirt killing people on the arrivals shuttle during rev because he won't get banned for it.

Also goofball I consider it highly suspect you currently crusade against "realism" for "ruining peoples fun" when you fucking shit up our entire chemistry system because "STAR TREK FAKE NAMES AREN'T REAAAAAAAL, INJECT BURNT WOOD INTO YOUR VEINS TO CURE RADIATION POISONIIIIIIIIIIING", you doo doo head.

[Zilenan91]

That's because Goon has a consistent theme, and due to its closed source nature, utter focus on what it wants to be as a game. Since we're open source and have a lot of coders who don't necessarily work together, we don't have that, so while we do get a lot of new content, none of it is focused into a tight experience.

[Saegrimr]

tl;dr - we need to start by getting admins to examine situations as and when, determine whether or not they're cases where people are openly acting out of spite to everyone else, and then bop those people who are. I can't stress the simplicity of this enough, and yet I know it's going to be misinterpreted.

You REALLY don't want this. If you thought people were crying about muh admin grudge now, this would be a category 5 drama event.

[AnonymousNow]

Are we currently in a position where we can't trust our admins to act in the best interests of the server and its populace, Saegrimr?

[iamgoofball]

i did NOT give you permission to quote me goofball, consider yourself ON NOTICE for this breach of etiquette.

that sure is relevant to the discussion, faggot

also don't call me a faggot you gormless sheepwanker, yes, what i did is "low rp" the fact is most of the station DOESN'T EVEN low RP at this point. I don't give a hairy dingle about Revolver Ocelot and Kaz Miller and Venom Snake all spawning as heads and referring to the brig as "Mother Base" or Iroquois Pliskin creeping around in a cardboard box and practicing tactical rolls, I give a shit about Mononymous Greyshirt killing people on the arrivals shuttle during rev because he won't get banned for it.

Mononymous Greyshirt killing people on the arrivals shuttle during rev is against the rules. It's spawn-killing. We shouldn't be banning that because of RP, we should be banning that because of poor fucking sportsmanship.

Also goofball I consider it highly suspect you currently crusade against "realism" for "ruining peoples fun" when you fucking shit up our entire chemistry system because "STAR TREK FAKE NAMES AREN'T REAAAAAAAL, INJECT BURNT WOOD INTO YOUR VEINS TO CURE RADIATION POISONIIIIIIIIIIING", you doo doo head.

that sure is relevant to the discussion, ultra-faggot.
also, stop being a nerd

[AnonymousNow]

Hold up.

Let's blow this bit up right here.

poor fucking sportsmanship

This is the problem we should be solving first. Roleplay is important, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise (if they come here. Because I'm not made of money.), but fixing this is the best place to start, and it'll make what follows easier and less essential to push.

[lumipharon]

It would be a nice start if people weren't so desperate to valid salad at every opportunity as non antag, and MLGpr0 murder bone as an antag.

Shit like someone calling out a wizard/ling and 50% of the crew dropping what they're doing to near suicidally attack THE DUDE THAT FARTS LIGHTNING BOLTS AND FIREBALLS, or the regenerating sword arm guy, with stun prods and spray bottles that they made at round start with zero justification is just rediculous.

This is something I would expect from an automated security robot (or brave sec officers), not random space hobos and medical doctors.

Ask yourselves this, if there is nothing antagonistic going on, can you still enjoy the game/keep yourself amused for more then 15 minutes(without being a griefing shitter)? If the answer is no, that is a problem.

Also goof what crag said about chem is 100% relevent. 95% or more of people preferred trek chem and it's simplicity.
The you came along, said trek chem is gay, simple, and unrealistic, and replaced it with goofchem. Whether goofchem or trek chem is better aside, the fact is the majority of people liked something but you changed it because you believed there was a better alternative.

You cannot do that, then turn around and say "you're all a vocal minority, stop trying to change what most of the server likes".

Edit: My keyboard is shit.

[iamgoofball]

Also goof what crag said about chem is 100% relevent. 95% or more of people preferred trek chem and it's simplicity.
The you came along, said trek chem is gay, simple, and unrealistic, and replaced it with goofchem. Whether goofchem or trek chem is better aside, the fact is the majority of people liked something but you changed it because you believed there was a better alternative.

You raise a good point about this, but I'm going to counter that with goofchem as it stands right now, works fine for normal medical use when it isn't cryotube central. You flat out heal more with the new chems than you did with trekchem. I'm willing to bet that if I polled unbiased medical players, that they'd report the new chemicals are better than the old ones.

You cannot do that, then turn around and say "you're all a vocal minority, stop trying to change what most of the server likes".

Yes I can.

[whodaloo]

how do you quantify an unbiased player exactly

[Super Aggro Crag]

Also goof what crag said about chem is 100% relevent. 95% or more of people preferred trek chem and it's simplicity.
The you came along, said trek chem is gay, simple, and unrealistic, and replaced it with goofchem. Whether goofchem or trek chem is better aside, the fact is the majority of people liked something but you changed it because you believed there was a better alternative.

You raise a good point about this, but I'm going to counter that with goofchem as it stands right now, works fine for normal medical use when it isn't cryotube central. You flat out heal more with the new chems than you did with trekchem. I'm willing to bet that if I polled unbiased medical players, that they'd report the new chemicals are better than the old ones.

You cannot do that, then turn around and say "you're all a vocal minority, stop trying to change what most of the server likes".

Yes I can.

You're so full of shit you fart at the seams goofball, back when we had trek chem you bitched constantly about how the medicines were too OP healing people and broke everything, now that people fixed your kludged together shitcode you justify your fuck up saying ITS BETTER CUZ THE NEW CHEMS HEAL MORE. you flipflop more than a pancake on a trampoline, you fatheaded goonatic.

how do you quantify an unbiased player exactly

"Anyone who agrees with me" -Iamgoofball, literal fecal vomiter.

[AnonymousNow]

As a longtime medbay player who was vocal and adamant in my rejection of Goofchem, I will now admit that in its current form, it is fairly functional and interesting.

However, it took a lot of fixing from its initial very-roughly-hewn-and-slapped-on-with-gaffer-tape-children's-tears-and-hope form to become this. Culminating in adding back several of our most useful Trekchems. So take that as you will.

EDIT: Also, I guess I'm still feeling the loss of tricord. I can still feel the medicines we've lost. A phantom pain.

This is also not the place to discuss that subject, as much as we'd probably like to. Back to the subject at hand, we've got a playerbase problem, and we need a way to try and fix it.

I'm fond of the carrot-greentext idea, encouraging people to take less antisocial/powergamey routes to victory through greentext. That's why I suggested the revolution major/minor victory system, based on whether or not you kill (minor) or maroon alive (major) your targets; it functionally changes nothing, but would encorage somewhat more creative play based around kidnap and subduing one's enemies, without forcing people into a different playstyle.

[whodaloo]

i actually agree that trekchem was retarded OP, i dunno if you were here for it crag but about eight or nine months ago we had a rash of players who would abuse chemistry to solo blobs or robust the station with ease

my main problem is that goof is liable to discard opinions and has a unfortunate tendencey to ignore criticism, kinda like pap

EDIT: also why we gotta be bitching about goofchem anyway it's all over but the shouting

[Super Aggro Crag]

As a longtime medbay player who was vocal and adamant in my rejection of Goofchem, I will now admit that in its current form, it is fairly functional and interesting.

However, it took a lot of fixing from its initial very-roughly-hewn-and-slapped-on-with-gaffer-tape-children's-tears-and-hope form to become this. Culminating in adding back several of our most useful Trekchems. So take that as you will.

This is also not the place to discuss that subject, as much as we'd probably like to. Back to the subject at hand, we've got a playerbase problem, and we need a way to try and fix it.

I'm fond of the carrot-greentext idea, encouraging people to take less antisocial/powergamey routes to victory through greentext. That's why I suggested the revolution major/minor victory system, based on whether or not you kill (minor) or maroon alive (major) your targets; it functionally changes nothing, but would encorage somewhat more creative play based around kidnap and subduing one's enemies, without forcing people into a different playstyle.

Okay, sorry for losing my cool. I'm not sure if a carrot on a stick system will work, the main issue I'm seeing isn't with solo antagonists, it's with conversion gamemodes being "got converted, drop all pretense of being a human being and grab the nearest robust object and start murdering everyone without a floating red R." I haven't been back for very long, but this has been something I've noticed pretty much at least twice a day every day I play.

[Zilenan91]

The sole reason people, myself included, make things like stunprods, spears, and pneumatic cannons from round start is because we don't want to die. If stuns were nerfed, I'd probably lay off of these things quite a bit because currently if you don't have a robust weapon, you'll just get shat on by stuns.

[lumipharon]

You raise a good point about this, but I'm going to counter that with goofchem as it stands right now, works fine for normal medical use when it isn't cryotube central. You flat out heal more with the new chems than you did with trekchem. I'm willing to bet that if I polled unbiased medical players, that they'd report the new chemicals are better than the old ones.

You cannot do that, then turn around and say "you're all a vocal minority, stop trying to change what most of the server likes".

Yes I can.

Did you... actually read what I typed?

Whether goofchem or trek chem is better aside, the fact is the majority of people liked something but you changed it because you believed there was a better alternative.

You cannot do that, then turn around and say "you're all a vocal minority, stop trying to change what most of the server likes".

People liked trek chem. You thought it would be better with goofchem. Lots of people disagreed with you but you did it anyway.
We want basic RP, because we think it would be better then power gamey shit. But you think we have no right to do so because people disagree with this opinion. Hm.

So yes, you can say hypocritical shit, but it just makes you look like an idiot.

[iamgoofball]

The problem is, I have yet to see a SS13 server successfully hold "basic RP" without it dissolving back into low RP or solidifying into heavy RP.

Bay based servers that try to be medium RP end up turning heavy RP extended only 10 hour rounds.

TG based servers that try to be medium RP end up turning no/low RP 30 minute rounds

[oranges]

It'S FUCKING /tg/ YOU FUCKING CANCEROUS FUCKS

WE CAN START WITH YOU LOT

[Saegrimr]

Always found it pretty ironic, the server originating from the fucking D&D and Warhammer 40k themed shitposting board has the worst RP community out of all the most active server.

[Wyzack]

Goof dont you dare pull the fucking realism card over activated charcoal, you INJEST it to prevent absorption in the stomach, that is fucking it. Also while we are on the topic why the sweet christ do you have to add water to sodium and chloride to make sodium chloride?

More in line with the thread topic your attitude of "who cares about rp its a game" is utter cancer. We used to fill such a nice niche and now it is just battle antags wordlessly shuttle repeat. I dont think anonymousnow's RP moderation is really the way to fix it or if it can even be fixed at this point, but I know that right now it is kinda fucked.

[Raven776]

I suppose I should get back to more RP and less gamey behavior myself. I used to sit around in science and banter a lot, but then that slowly evolved into powergaming and just preparing for a shitstorm. I'd start every character as an RP exercise and end it as a sort of display on how bad that job can be at validhunting.

Hell, I started playing Juniper Breeze because it was fun to be a hippy botanist, and then she became everyone's most hated greytide shit when I was online way back when.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I recommend, in order to get back into RP, beating the shit out of the librarian every round until he runs microlite D&D in the library

[Maccus]

>aliens abduct someone
>he gets the objective "the oxygen is killing everyone, get rid of it and save them!"
>he immediately grabs the whole armory and adminhelps asking if he can just kill everyone
>he gets told yes
>I tell him no but he can cause death by breaking windows because it makes sense with his flavour text
>other admins tease me in asay for "expecting rp on tg" and taking flavour text seriously

Im triggered. Even with the guy who designed aliens in dead chat saying abductees werent meant to be full on antags.

I support traitors being able to kill whoever because they have boring objectives otherwise but why cant we have even one thing that doesnt translate to autorifle spree.

Names left out cause this is not about the particular people involved, but the mindset that is common.

I always thought admins were responsible for the increasing frequency of murderbone and reduced RP, but I am still surprised at this.

Remove admins.

It's usually the opposite. I know of at least one admin who stepped down because any time he tried to throw some conflict to make the station a bit more than "do your job until someone needs killing," and I'm sure they're not the only one.

EDIT:

I recommend, in order to get back into RP, beating the shit out of the librarian every round until he runs microlite D&D in the library

No lie, the first game of D&D I ever played was that version they keep in the library.

[peoplearestrange]

Ok first I want to say, wow this thread had a lot more repsonce than I thought It would. Cheers for all the intresting ideas and analyse of the way the server seems to be evolving.
Secondly Goof and Agro, please take your shit somewhere else, or make out or whatever. You may have even had valid points somewhere but the back and forth bitching has made me apathetic to even carry on reading...

To add back, I'd like to say I always saw RP as flavor, or rather, atmosphere. Its what allows us to back away from SS13 being a crappy title based game and into the realms of something that can feel paranoia driven, or actually feel like you're trapped on death-trap of a space station. Its why half of our screens are taken up by a huge text box and chat isn't simply a popup box (or at least what it feels like, im sure coding/engine issues are partly to blame).

Of course there will always be fast passed situations that don't allow for RP, particularly combat, thats fine.
And as I said the crew and non-antags can help by adding to the atmosphere and creating a landscape to play on.

Using traitor status for murderbone has been a no-no for awhile, until recently, where a few headmins decided that its ok within reason. I'd go one step back and say its reasonable with escalation. I.e. you kill a witness, and then end up having to "tie up loose ends" etc.
But also antags have to start using their objectives as a challenge. If you're mission is to steal something, why not work out a trade? Why not hold someone hostage, or take Ian captive and trade his freedom for an ID? Why not bribe a medical doctor into giving you a new identity? There are SO many options and these are just a few stale ones.

I think the reason people choose murderbone is partly frustration. This is why ever now and then a highlander round is good. Its mass murder mayhem and it makes people realise why the combat system and the "game" part of ss13 is actually pretty poor. Honestly I've seen good things come about in extended rounds right after a highlander round.

[tuypo1]

the solution is as some others have said encourage people to talk to each other more interact with your coworkers

[Durkel]

I was just warned the other day for criting and healing a chaplain who stole my things from me because "It wasn't something a doctor would do". Apparently what I Should have done was ask nicely for him to stop, or call for the one security officer in 60 man round to help get my items back. You can take your cries for more rp and shove it.

[TheNightingale]

I was just warned the other day for criting and healing a chaplain who stole my things from me because "It wasn't something a doctor would do". Apparently what I Should have done was ask nicely for him to stop, or call for the one security officer in 60 man round to help get my items back. You can take your cries for more rp and shove it.

The Chaplain shouldn't have stolen your things either. RP works both ways.

[Steelpoint]

The day antagonists are warned, or even banned, over murderboning is the day things have been taken too far.

I'm all for encouraging some middling level of role play, but don't do it to the detriment of antagonists.

[Stickymayhem]

The rules and decisions myself and kor pushed were a response to try and curb this trend towards less and less RP.

People need more freedom to fuck around. We got more RP out of security when they had no rules than when they were restricted again.

I've said this a million fucking times but whatever, the rules you have are like any game, they shape and restrict how people are going to play. You don't really roleplay in monopoly or something because there's little room to do so. Everyone follows the rules, makes set decisions within those rules and has little wiggle room to put themselves into the game, which is what roleplaying requires.

lifeweb has proven that no rules can result in better behaviour. The players there are treated with the respect and intelligence they deserve and as a result they don't start slamming their heads against the rules looking for weak points and rebelling against the man.

I regret not completely stripping away the majority of the rules. Low rules rounds were great. People actually interacted because it was beneficial in every sense. It was more fun for people who enjoy communicating, you damn well better get to know your co-workers so when the bastards invade you know someone has your back, and all the chaos pushes people together and gives them shit to talk about and respond to.

Tabletop games don't have strict rules that stop behaviour, they have rules that define a world. In SS13 that's the code, and that's what we need to rely on more than rules now. This is nearly impossible because coderbus is seperate and not overseen by any kind of design group but that's what will be most effective at changing this shit.

It's a real problem and one of the reasons I started playing less. It's just so hard to do anything different when everything else is punished by other players, and occasionally admins.

[ColonicAcid]

Spoiler:

Trying to change the gameplay will achieve nothing.
It's not the game but the people who play it.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

One thing I'm not sure has come up yet is the head you put on your shoulders when you go into the game is probably a factor; why do you play this?

If it's to roll antag, to deny greentext, maybe to get to that shuttle at all costs, that might explain why RP isn't a factor in areas.

I'd also like to chime in on being killed in no time at all for having the audacity to type out a message is also why people might not do that after trying it the first time or at all. But personally I got over being assured to die when I felt it wouldn't ever change because I can't control who plays this game and then I either whine in dead chat or laugh to myself because I had fun from the ding of round start up until I died and at least whilst being dead I can watch what everyone alive is doing and have a cool off period that OOC salt slinging can never compare to.
Hell I sometimes try to RP in that situation if it's a stunprod into an armblade or something where I just go ";Gah!" or something to do with the situation that isn't just ";help Griff Murderbone dorms killing me"

Whenever I'm watching a murderboning, the people who go "Aw man" or "I knew it" are much more entertaining than the greyshirt who's carrying an SBR and keeps macros for ";HELP [name] HAS ME TRAITOR/LING GET HIM" on all the round's known antags.

[peoplearestrange]

It makes me wish the rounds I wind up observing (because I can't actually play at the time) led to me seeing more of that but I guess I'm just unlucky or orbit the wrong people.

It happens more on lowpop rounds. I'm not sure exactly why this is though. Maybe its that interactions are fewer and therefore more meaningful? Or maybe that things just dont get lost in the now insane amount of things happening. Maybe all of this is to do with the huge populations now on sybil? I mean if Im honest, most of my good stories are from rounds with 40-50 people 60 at the absolute tops. Now most days we hit 80-90. Though maybe that just means the game needs to evolve somehow. More space or something.

[Stickymayhem]

This is nearly impossible because coderbus is seperate and not overseen by any kind of design group but that's what will be most effective at changing this shit.

Is it possible to even have a design group in your opinion?
I think it is even if it was in an unofficial sense but I don't know if the people who might be best for it would have the time or even want to.

Of course being a human being with an ego I'm going to say I would be great on a design team but really I don't know how it would be selected.

Someone like MSO would actively have to choose people who would take the server in the direction he wants.

That would mean not getting a balanced range of opinions but picking all the people who want more/less rp and get a variety of solutions rather than a variety of aims.

[peoplearestrange]

Tabletop games don't have strict rules that stop behaviour, they have rules that define a world. In SS13 that's the code, and that's what we need to rely on more than rules now. This is nearly impossible because coderbus is seperate and not overseen by any kind of design group but that's what will be most effective at changing this shit.

This isn't quite true. In D&D and such you still have a GM which shapes the way the game is played, the freedom is to deal with a situation in whatever way you see fit, but be assured if its to charge into every situation by killing on sight the GM will make you pay, or at least try too.

We have an issue right now where we lack rules to allow freedom, but have nothing or no one really aiming it in a direction or curbing things.

I'd be up for admins shapping situations with IC interactions, but I just don't see the shit stirings going for it, we get enough calls over shit events already (though I admit you did cut a lot of that crap out and got people to give feedback over events rather than admin complaints).

Take for example the chaplin/doctor situation above. The whole thing is stupid, yes the chaplin shouldn't have stolen, but there are bad chaplins in the way there are bad doctors. However there was a lot more room for something intresting to come about. The doctor could have called security, had him investigated, had him fired from his job, or just had him take a minor punishment for it. Or even once the fight started one of them could have stepped back and just shouted "WAIT!" and then continued with "this is pointless, take your [stolen thing] back and get out Gods house!" or somthing ANYTHING.

Instead I witnessed a silent theft, and then a silent duel with fire extinguishers until one was in crit, which was then healed before the other then ran out the room.

This is why it was ahelped, this is why I bwoinked them and told them both it was shitty.

[NikNakFlak]

Doesn't sound like anything notable to me.

[Miauw]

tgstation (code) is the way it is because it's developed by an incoherent team of amateurs, for better or for worse.

[ThanatosRa]

Not sure what I can add aside from yet another echo of "it's the culture". I miss the old days...

Oh well, still gonna try to be the change I want and actively RP. It just sucks that when the killing begins in in my dept doing my job obliviously.

[EndgamerAzari]

I think this all comes down to a case of being the change you wish to see in the world.

[ThanatosRa]

I think this all comes down to a case of being the change you wish to see in the world.

Does that make us dirty hippies?

[invisty]

Change Bagil to low-rules, maybe?

[DaemonBomb]

Change Bagil to low-rules, maybe?

I'd fund it.

[ShadowDimentio]

Good sportsmanship should be encouraged. If you're a wizard and you're barreling down the hall, and you knock the clown over with a magic missile as they run from you and they beg "PLEASE NO," you oughta elect to give MERCY and SPARE them.

Same for ops I guess. Murderboning is fun, but try to have some restraint where appropriate.