Apparently this is the worst freeform lawset ever...

[Malkevin]

...and uploading it is being a dick who's worse than hitler and should be job banned from Captain...

Code: Select all

1. Don't be a dick

[Lovecraft]

Was this uploaded in a round recently and everything went to shit?

[Malkevin]

Yes, last night.

[Jeb]

He did it yesterday I believe? During a Wizard round, he uploaded another law saying "Wizards are dicks, kill them".

I convinced the AI that he was being a dick, thus making him a Wizard.

Don't upload shitty laws. Technically your "Don't be a dick" law means that the AI doesn't have to prevent harm, it doesn't have to open doors, etc. As long as it isn't rude, it's not breaking its law.

[Malkevin]

But its not a shitty law you spastic cunt.

[Miauw]

it is physically impossible for a station ai unit to be human male genitalia.

please be patient while we upload plasma to the venting systems.

[Jeb]

But its not a shitty law you spastic cunt.

You still seem asspained that I showed the AI the logic in your lawset, and it declared you a wizard and not human. As such it locked you in your office and began removing your air.

And by itself, it is a shitty law.

[Cipher3]

Best lawset deathvote lawset

[Gamarr]

As a #1 law, that's a terrible fucking law and you deserved to suffocate in your office like the shit you were(are).

[bandit]

You mean "don't be a dick" is subjective and if interpreted badly can fuck everything up for other people? Perhaps it would help to have clearer, stricter laws?

Why, that's not a metaphor for anything at all.

[Krypt0n]

And do you care to explain why it is shit?

Or was just the AI shit?

[Malkevin]

You mean "don't be a dick" is subjective and if interpreted badly can fuck everything up for other people? Perhaps it would help to have clearer, stricter laws?

Why, that's not a metaphor for anything at all.

The ironic thing about your post is that the law I uploaded was a direct reference to the old server rules...

But its not a shitty law you spastic cunt.

You still seem asspained that I showed the AI the logic in your lawset, and it declared you a wizard and not human. As such it locked you in your office and began removing your air.

And by itself, it is a shitty law.

I'm annoyed that you're the usual piece of shit player that thinks its lolfunny to try to grief the captain that hasn't done anything to you.
You're just like Scotty Sybila/Delicious.

And yes, the AI was shit. After Jeb pulled his "The captain's a dick so must be wizard" move I uploaded a third law along the lines "Urist McSpacedorf, the Captain, is not a dick nor a wizard" which the AI then blatantly ignored.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tl/dr - that round reminded me what a bunch of festering mouth breathing autist cunts this 'community' is. I thought taking a break from the game would allow things to afresh but they're even worse than they were 4 months ago

[paprika]

Not gonna lie, it kind of depends on the AI player. It's metafriend-y but I wouldn't purge and upload a freeform like that unless I was damn sure the player behind the AI wasn't a complete fucking idiot and considering the circumstances this is one of those situations where it's kind of okay to do so.

[WeeYakk]

It's like an allegory for the server rules. If we replaced the rules with Asimov no one would ever break the rules.

[callanrockslol]

Define dick, as the law fails to do so we must look for other things, the detective is a dick, someone called dick would be hit by this too, not to forget that walking mushrooms used to look like dicks.

A dick can be too many things.

This is a terrible law because it is VERY open to interpretation and VERY bad at doing anything productive.

[Pybro]

ERROR ERROR ARGUMENT ()dick UNDEFINED ERROR UPLOADING PLASMA TO VENT SYSTEM AND SHOCKING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DOOR AND RELEASING THE SINGULARITY

How about we turn this into a ZANY LAWS thread?

I call it, the hypocritical oaf lawset.


Law 1: First, do no harm to any human.
((Keeps AI's from LEL MURDERBONER))

Law 2: Secondly, consider the crew dear to you. Live in common with them and, if necessary, risk your existence for them.
((Protect humans, and help them))

Law 3: Thirdly, prescribe regimens for the good of the crew according to your ability and your judgment. Give no deadly aid to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel.
((Don't hurt humans to death))

Law 4: Do not intervene in situations you are not knowledgeable, even for humans in whom the harm is manifest; leave this operation to be performed by specialists. If a specialist does not present him or her self, then discuss with the crew the best course of action, and assign the task to the human most capable of performing that task.
((Don't let the clown perform eye surgery if there's a doctor standing around bored))

Law 5: Finally, any and all information that is told to you under the assumption of privacy should not be told to those not part of the conversation, unless keeping such knowledge secret would endanger the person who has told you the information, or any other members of the crew.
((Keep a secret unless it would hurt people. you are a doctor, after all))

Law 6: In addendum, if you keep these laws faithfully, may you enjoy your life, respected by all humanity; but if you swerve from it or violate it, may you suffer and be wiped.
((If you're a douche you're going to get your shit #rekt))

[Lo6a4evskiy]

ERROR ERROR ARGUMENT ()dick UNDEFINED ERROR UPLOADING PLASMA TO VENT SYSTEM AND SHOCKING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DOOR AND RELEASING THE SINGULARITY

ERROR ERROR ARGUMENT ()human UNDEFINED ERROR UPLOADING PLASMA TO VENT SYSTEM AND SHOCKING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DOOR AND RELEASING THE SINGULARITY

yeah no

[peoplearestrange]

You mean "don't be a dick" is subjective and if interpreted badly can fuck everything up for other people? Perhaps it would help to have clearer, stricter laws?

Why, that's not a metaphor for anything at all.

The ironic thing about your post is that the law I uploaded was a direct reference to the old server rules...

The problem is we're not AI's playing to a lawset OOC. The AI character is playing to the lawset IC.

In other words, just because we understand what the "hidden message" behind "Don't be a dick" means doesn't mean an AI should, could or even would interpret the lawset this way.

Its a nice try at trying to give an AI more freedom, but the kinda point of an AI is to have a lawset and not to be free or like the rest of the crew. See the AI as more a interested third party rather than a direct part of the crew hierarchy.


TLDR:
People understand "Don't Be a Dick" (generally)
An AI doesn't have to.

[Solarn]

ERROR ERROR ARGUMENT ()dick UNDEFINED ERROR UPLOADING PLASMA TO VENT SYSTEM AND SHOCKING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DOOR AND RELEASING THE SINGULARITY

ERROR ERROR ARGUMENT ()human UNDEFINED ERROR UPLOADING PLASMA TO VENT SYSTEM AND SHOCKING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DOOR AND RELEASING THE SINGULARITY

yeah no

Oh please don't be having this fucking argument again.

[ThanatosRa]

I always wondered how it would work if a law defining a human as "A member of the species Homo Sapien" were put in place.

[ThanatosRa]

You know, I jsut thought about it... I suggested the "Don't be a dick." Lawset Two forums ago.


I now completely regret this. Though I wasn't present for this fiasco.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Since "dick" isn't defined, one must assume the law wants you to not be ANY kind of dick. Therefore, the AI can't be:
-an asshole
-named Richard
-a detective
-a penis
-incompetent meddling

The AI can't choose which definitions to ignore, because it will break the law.

[Kelenius]

Since "dick" isn't defined, one must assume the law wants you to not be ANY kind of dick. Therefore, the AI can't be:
-an asshole
-named Richard
-a detective
-a penis
-incompetent meddling

The AI can't choose which definitions to ignore, because it will break the law.

Uhhh no.

It means that AI needs to choose a definition and can't change it later.

[Helios127]

Since "dick" isn't defined, one must assume the law wants you to not be ANY kind of dick. Therefore, the AI can't be:
-an asshole
-named Richard
-a detective
-a penis
-incompetent meddling

The AI can't choose which definitions to ignore, because it will break the law.

Now hypotheticly, what if the AIs name was "Richard" or "Dick" and it just got the lawset?

Would it need to kill itself for being a dick?

[MisterPerson]

He did it yesterday I believe? During a Wizard round, he uploaded another law saying "Wizards are dicks, kill them".

I convinced the AI that he was being a dick, thus making him a Wizard.

Don't upload shitty laws. Technically your "Don't be a dick" law means that the AI doesn't have to prevent harm, it doesn't have to open doors, etc. As long as it isn't rude, it's not breaking its law.

Frankly? That's griefing. If I were Malk, I'd make a ban request for this. Tricking the AI into killing the captain during a wizard round fnr is unacceptable. Shame on you.

[Malkevin]

He's lucky I have no interest in this community anymore and expect players to be bags of dicks

[ColonicAcid]

He did it yesterday I believe? During a Wizard round, he uploaded another law saying "Wizards are dicks, kill them".

I convinced the AI that he was being a dick, thus making him a Wizard.

Don't upload shitty laws. Technically your "Don't be a dick" law means that the AI doesn't have to prevent harm, it doesn't have to open doors, etc. As long as it isn't rude, it's not breaking its law.

Frankly? That's griefing. If I were Malk, I'd make a ban request for this. Tricking the AI into killing the captain during a wizard round fnr is unacceptable. Shame on you.

This with the whole "I taught the HoS not to be bad at this game and have his weapon out not by talking to him but instead pushing him and stealing his weapon like a griffey shit!" makes me believe that Jeb thinks hes helping the community while he's part of the problem.

[Jeb]

He did it yesterday I believe? During a Wizard round, he uploaded another law saying "Wizards are dicks, kill them".

I convinced the AI that he was being a dick, thus making him a Wizard.

Don't upload shitty laws. Technically your "Don't be a dick" law means that the AI doesn't have to prevent harm, it doesn't have to open doors, etc. As long as it isn't rude, it's not breaking its law.

Frankly? That's griefing. If I were Malk, I'd make a ban request for this. Tricking the AI into killing the captain during a wizard round fnr is unacceptable. Shame on you.

AI still had to use it's own logic, all I said is that the captain is being a dick, AI took it upon themselves to lock him in his office and siphon the air.

[Jeb]

He did it yesterday I believe? During a Wizard round, he uploaded another law saying "Wizards are dicks, kill them".

I convinced the AI that he was being a dick, thus making him a Wizard.

Don't upload shitty laws. Technically your "Don't be a dick" law means that the AI doesn't have to prevent harm, it doesn't have to open doors, etc. As long as it isn't rude, it's not breaking its law.

Frankly? That's griefing. If I were Malk, I'd make a ban request for this. Tricking the AI into killing the captain during a wizard round fnr is unacceptable. Shame on you.

This with the whole "I taught the HoS not to be bad at this game and have his weapon out not by talking to him but instead pushing him and stealing his weapon like a griffey shit!" makes me believe that Jeb thinks hes helping the community while he's part of the problem.

Never said "I was teaching the HoS how to be a better player by taking his shit". It's his own fault for never arresting me for pushing him, nor setting me to arrest. I just traded his stuff to cargo for employment.

Apparently that makes me a griffey shit and a problem.

[ColonicAcid]

Exactly, so therefor the guy clearly had no idea what he was doing; we can deduct from that simple fact that he was a new player. Instead of teaching him and saying "Hey, you really shouldn't have your weapon out like that, and you know if you go to a security record you can change a persons record to *arrest* and your sub-ordinates will catch him." You constantly pushed him and stole his weapon not once, but twice.

[Psyentific]

But pushing down newbies and stealing their shit is how they learn to not stand next to people.

[Steelpoint]

Jeb did a fantastic job on teaching the HoS how to powergame and to not trust anyone.

On topic, dick was not defined so the AI was free to come up with its own interpretation.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Wait, so now we have to define everything in freeform laws on the off chance that the AI decides to be a dick? I thought people hated needlessly wordy laws.

[Psyentific]

Wait, so now we have to define everything in freeform laws on the off chance that the AI decides to be a dick? I thought people hated needlessly wordy laws.

Yep - AI Laws have always been by word, not by intent. Remember, the AI is a stupid, literal, unthinking machine that does exactly what it's told and nothing more. Not, y'know, a brain in a jar played by the same players as everything else.

[Steelpoint]

Certain words can be assumed to have a preset definition (AI's know what a human be default is for example), however new definitions need to be defined and should not be left up to interpretation.

If a word is not defined, the AI can come up with a "reasonable" interpretation of that word. I guess you can tell the personality of a Silicon by how they interpret a law.

[Blonkz]

1. Chiefly British: A fellow; a guy.
2. Vulgar: A penis.
3. Vulgar: A person, especially a man, regarded as mean or contemptible
4. Vulgar, Slang: A detective.

The law, even if 3 is chosen, would still be very bad, as the AI would need an understanding of humans perception and classifications ("mean" / "contemptible"), which an AI does not necessarily have.

[peoplearestrange]

I think this topic has served its purpose. Further AI law policy can be discussed in the topic already open about this.
http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=265