Democracy 3 - The return of the Jam Jar

[oranges]

Democracy 3 - The return of the Jam Jar - this time it's marmalade
Well goddamn people look at that we managed to almost make it through a headmin term with our original set of Headmins, that's a first, so a hearty big congratulations to those who made it.

We've all done this before, as you should be aware by now, but unfortunately our glorious Democratic Leader Quartz was lost in a hilarious incident involving a jam jar and some pine nuts. (Seriously though RIP Quartz, your contribution was awesome and we'll miss you here in the elections team)

Dates
The admin vote is underway, we will wait for that to be finished and then begin planning the player vote - aiming to be voting within a week or two.

Basic Rules
There will as before be three Headministrators,
one decided by a player vote, one by an adminbus vote and the awkward third wheel candidate that this time will be picked by MSO

The players and admins will choose from the SAME POOL OF CANDIDATES. If you want to be in the pool you must make your candidate thread.

Candidate Rules
Just make a thread in the subforum and answer questions

Since it apparently wasn't obvious - you must not be permabanned or blacklisted, appeal those first.

Posting Rules
Try to avoid contentless posts or empty quoting other peoples comments - However I'll only act on these when reported
NikNakFlak amendment- Do not post a question pertaining to a specific player in a thread that doesn't relate to them, your post will be deleted, genericize your question and ask that instead, this isn't an opportunity to passively aggressively argue with someone using a headmin candidate as a club and if they're not running as a headmin then their conduct or stances don't matter.

Want money, know code?
We need a proper STV voting system for the elections candidate, I think it's worthy enough of a cause that I'm prepared to put some real money into it.
See here for details https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5802

Election theme
[youtube]ysLApQGAjmU[/youtube]

[oranges]

Candidate List
Shaps - https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5774
TheLongBowMan - https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5822
Kor - https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6015

[Pomf123]

Pomf for headmin '16, I survived while Anon3 did not.

Spoiler:

I promise to make tgstation great again, too long have lizards, flies and catbeasts stolen jobs from hard working nanotrasen brand human employees. I mean don't get me wrong i know some great xenos but they've just gotta go. And those pubbies don't get me started, they're not sending their best they're sending their griefers, line toe-ers, and all around asshats. I'm gonna remove them and you know what I'm gonna build the biggest panic bunker space has ever seen and i'll make it send those pubbies straight back to hippie where they belong

[cancer_engine]

I'll vote for anyone that unbans me from ooc

[ShadowDimentio]

ShadowDimentio for headmin! I can be trusted because I have basically no experience as an admin. Plus, I'm not late this time!

[Bluespace]

vote BlUeSpAcE for hEaDmIn
together we can dEsTrOy tgstation for good.

[oranges]

Do try and read the rules like everyone else did Blooperspace

[LiamLime]

There are two important roles that need to be filled:
- The joke vote
- The "nobody wants this guy to win" vote

The former is sort of an inevitability, the second is the person who other candidates all rally against to attract more voters: "IF YOU DON'T VOTE, THIS PERSON WILL WIN! ". Helps with getting more people to vote.

[Shaps-cloud]

I think we've already filled the joke vote role

[NikNakFlak]

I make headmin meme images. As you can see by my meme in goofball's thread, they are quite top quality. I will make them if asked for any campaign member that wants them but I'll likely put my biased opinion in them.
Shoot me a pm.

[Ricotez]

can we enlist donald trump as the joke vote

[LiamLime]

On a serious note, I think we should redefine what a headmin is meant to actually do. Headmins shouldn't be admins++, there is no need for this. What I think headmins should be doing is being the "admins of admins". Basically whenever someone in the admin team misbehaves, they should look at the case. In short, I don't think headmins should ever concern themselves with player matters. Their job isn't to handle adminhelps, it's to handle adminadminhelps - adminhelps by admins about other admins. The exception to this is to bring processes out of a deadlock - if some process shuts down for some reason, they can make some sort of ruling to kick-start it again, which is why I think them being elected remains important.

When it comes to rule-related things, policies, etc. I think those should be determined by the entire admin team, not just headmins. The way I'd do it would be to start a thread in the Town Hall forum and a bit later an admin-only vote in the Auditorium or somewhere public. All admins who have an opinion on the proposal can then vote, majority wins.

The way it's proposed currently, anyone can see that this is little more than theatre - a fun thing to do every 6 months (at best). I mean the headmins + host will vote someone in, and the admins will vote someone in. It's very likely that the headmins' opinion carries a lot of weight in the admin team too, meaning they are essentially voting in one person, and influencing the outcome of a second person. The third is down to the players. Since it's likely that the admin-selected and headmin-selected candidates will share similar views, the outcome of the player vote makes it irrelevant, since the player candidate will be outvoted no matter what their opinion is.

There are better ways to do tiered management than what TGS does. I think something better should be implemented and used.

[PKPenguin321]

so wait literally anybody can run?
wew

[oranges]

I'm trusting that the players are actually intelligent human beings who can vote for a candidate they actually think is good.

God forbid someone treats everyone like adults around here

[oranges]

When it comes to rule-related things, policies, etc. I think those should be determined by the entire admin team, not just headmins. The way I'd do it would be to start a thread in the Town Hall forum and a bit later an admin-only vote in the Auditorium or somewhere public. All admins who have an opinion on the proposal can then vote, majority wins.

I don't think ti was ever intended that the Headmins just make policy without consulting anyone. They should have consulted players and admins and then tried to build consensus to a majority opinion. Them having the ability to make the final decision was just to prevent deadlock in the process.

[LiamLime]

I think it'd be better if they weren't required in that process at all, outside of deadlocks. Gives them time to do the job of administrating the admin team - something that requires attention and is, in my opinion, done fairly poorly today.

[imblyings]

Seriously consider making the headmin term one that is 4 months, not 6. 6 months of actively chasing up FNR requests, appeals, and complaints and any other drama that pops up is not good for the soul. Consider staggered headmin terms where headmins can volunteer to do a 6 month instead of 4 month if they feel like it/they're in the middle of doing something/they've been good so far. Even consider lining up replacement headmins as backups to fill up any gaps.

[peoplearestrange]

God forbid someone treats everyone like adults around here

Kinda assuming that people here are adults. The 18+ thing is more of a joke than anything.

EDIT: actually I don't wanna say that stuff. But what I do want to ask is, how would people thinking about notes being published (obviously with permission/current headmin approval/oranges bums up) of each potential headadmin candidate?

Ok Ok I get what you're going to say "But my shit from 5 years ago shouldnt matter" and yeah maybe it shouldn't but thats up to the voters to decide, or we could only publish stuff from 2015-16? Or maybe it could limited to bans. At least making people accountable to a possible previous history of anything.

[bandit]

But what I do want to ask is, how would people thinking about notes being published (obviously with permission/current headmin approval/oranges bums up) of each potential headadmin candidate?

I can feel the secondhand drama already. Bad idea.

[peoplearestrange]

Hmmm fair point!

[duncathan]

How many admins have received a note in the past year?

[Drynwyn]

I'm formally shilling for peoplearestrange now.

I've played vidya with PAS before, and all I can say is this: The best headmin is not the one who promises the most sweeping reforms or has the grandest vision. The best headmin is the one with a clear plan to carry out the day-to-day duties well, and without going in to complete crash-and-burn-I-hate-this-place mode. I think that's PAS.

i mean uh

PAS 2K16, MEMES MEMES MEMES

[DemonFiren]

If only we had two votes, I'd give them to two people.

[oranges]

Seriously consider making the headmin term one that is 4 months, not 6. 6 months of actively chasing up FNR requests, appeals, and complaints and any other drama that pops up is not good for the soul. Consider staggered headmin terms where headmins can volunteer to do a 6 month instead of 4 month if they feel like it/they're in the middle of doing something/they've been good so far. Even consider lining up replacement headmins as backups to fill up any gaps.

In terms of electoral policy like that I'm not sure my mandate stretches that far, that would be something the headmins have to drive and approve as far as I can tell.

[LiamLime]

The only fair way to vote in this (given the limitations of ingame polls) is to give everyone as many possible votes as there are candidates, a vote meaning "I am fine with this person representing me." Someone whose whole opinion is "I don't want this person to represent me" can vote for everyone but that one person, and someone who only wants one person, can still vote for that one. If the winner fails to receive a 50% approval rating, a runoff round can then happen between the top two people. If someone ticks every person, their vote is equivalent to not voting at all, meaning it doesn't ruin the results in any way.

Technically preferential voting would be better, but the ingame polls system doesn't support that. It however does support multiple choice questions, and using those is much better than doing first past the post.

[Drynwyn]

The only fair way to vote in this (given the limitations of ingame polls) is to give everyone as many possible votes as there are candidates, a vote meaning "I am fine with this person representing me." Someone whose whole opinion is "I don't want this person to represent me" can vote for everyone but that one person, and someone who only wants one person, can still vote for that one. If the winner fails to receive a 50% approval rating, a runoff round can then happen between the top two people. If someone ticks every person, their vote is equivalent to not voting at all, meaning it doesn't ruin the results in any way.

Technically preferential voting would be better, but the ingame polls system doesn't support that. It however does support multiple choice questions, and using those is much better than doing first past the post.

Liam speaks sense.

[PKPenguin321]

question, if somebody's running for player-elected headmin and wins but also wins one of the other two headmin votes, what happens

[oranges]

The player elected headmin vote is held last, so any candidates selected by other methods are eliminated

[MrStonedOne]

Well, it would be admin vote, player vote, and the host vote is just kinda done separately. (like last time)

On that note, the headmins have unanimously decided to allow me to pick for the host vote (I gave them the option of giving the vote to the players or admins as a second vote, to me to pick, or they could unanimously agree on somebody to pick who wasn't a current headmin).

[Malkevin]

I'm trusting that the players are actually intelligent human beings who can vote for a candidate they actually think is good.

God forbid someone treats everyone like adults around here

>Tony Abbott

[Malkevin]

one decided by a player vote, one by an adminbus vote and the awkward third wheel candidate that this time will be picked by the current headmins and MSO

Who counts as the current headmins?

[oranges]

Australians don't count as actual adults

Also MSO just said he would pick the third headmin, since the current headmins turfed that vote back to him

[peoplearestrange]

So elections are a good month an a half away? Seems a little early for this, but I guess it gives a good amount of time for people to forget about voting answer questions and drop out if they wish.

How are we doing the admin vote this year?

[tedward1337]

Probably the same every year. Poll in the admin general forum, vote goes up for maybe 3-4 days. Results, then run off if necessary.

[oranges]

So elections are a good month an a half away? Seems a little early for this, but I guess it gives a good amount of time for people to forget about voting answer questions and drop out if they wish.

How are we doing the admin vote this year?

The dates are not fixed, I just gave myself plenty of lead time in case the admins dragged their feet

[Jordie0608]

Who counts as the current headmins?

Myself, HornyGranny, Lollerderby

[duncathan]

The only fair way to vote in this (given the limitations of ingame polls) is to give everyone as many possible votes as there are candidates, a vote meaning "I am fine with this person representing me." Someone whose whole opinion is "I don't want this person to represent me" can vote for everyone but that one person, and someone who only wants one person, can still vote for that one. If the winner fails to receive a 50% approval rating, a runoff round can then happen between the top two people. If someone ticks every person, their vote is equivalent to not voting at all, meaning it doesn't ruin the results in any way.

Technically preferential voting would be better, but the ingame polls system doesn't support that. It however does support multiple choice questions, and using those is much better than doing first past the post.

Work is being done to allow instant runoff voting in ingame polls. With luck, it it'll be finished before the elections.

[peoplearestrange]

Do we have a date yet?

I mean for the elections

[oranges]

as soon as the admins decide to elect their headmin we can get started

[NikNakFlak]

I think as a mediator for elections, it's pretty shitty of oranges to throw around his personal opinions in headmin election threads especially since it's pretty much the same thing he deleted my posts for and make his "NikNakFlak" Amendment. Remove oranges from election mediator 2016

[oranges]

Actually niknak, if you had actually read the amendment with your name on it

NikNakFlak amendment- Do not post a question pertaining to a specific player in a thread that doesn't relate to them, your post will be deleted, genericize your question and ask that instead, this isn't an opportunity to passively aggressively argue with someone using a headmin candidate as a club and if they're not running as a headmin then their conduct or stances don't matter.

You would quite clearly see that the conduct or stance of the headmin candidate in question is perfectly fine to discuss in their thread. Where you tripped up was taking that fight with goof to literally every single other headmin candidates thread.

[peoplearestrange]

as soon as the admins decide to elect their headmin we can get started

Right... OK Im not sure anyone is really taking the reigns on that in admin world.

Should we just use the forum polls like we normally do?
Should I just make a thread and be proactive about it?
HELP ME oranges I AM CONFUSED BY THESE COMPLICATED CONCEPTS!

[Shaps-cloud]

Just look at the thread we had last time in the admin forums

[Jordie0608]

as soon as the admins decide to elect their headmin we can get started

Maybe when that STV vote system of yours comes along we can actually start.

[oranges]

The admin vote is underway, so the player vote will be occurring within two weeks time all going well.

Maybe when that STV vote system of yours comes along we can actually start.

There was no guarantee that it would be ready for this election, although we may still squeeze it in. But I explicitly did not tie the two together.

[NikNakFlak]

mhmmm so much strategic voting

[Ikarrus]

Shaps ceded to HG in a runoff vote.

I officially cede the admin election to HG to keep things moving, I'll try my luck in the player election

Looks like HG is our admin-elected headmin.

[MrStonedOne]

To clarify, we had 1 vote, it was hg and shaps as front runners with a bunch of other votes spread out.

So we had a run off vote, it tied right down the middle, hg and shaps.

So shaps cededed the admin election to HG and intends to attempt their chances in the player vote.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Congrats HG

[ShadowDimentio]

SHAPS YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS