Test 5: 2 DEADLY 4 U

[Hornygranny]

The crit and dead health levels have been changed to 50 and 0, a reduction of the health pool by 50%.

[PKPenguin321]

interesting, but at the same time for what purpose

[Steelpoint]

Three hit crits with most guns?

Armour even more useless?

Neat.

[Puglord]

Hardcore SS13

[Luke Cox]

Finally, a test that makes goddamn sense. 50 might be a little low but I'm all for a deadlier station.

Edit: Strawpoll the sequel: https://strawpoll.me/7159236

[Saegrimr]

This test probably needs to run longer than a few hours unlike the comms one, even if it does seem to suck at first. There's a lot of aspects this affects.

[Zilenan91]

I can't imagine how disgusting holoparasites are

[onleavedontatme]

I can't imagine how disgusting holoparasites are

Twice as easy to kill though.

[Zilenan91]

Chaos parasites though. They just fly through and suddenly everyone dies instantly to all the fire

Buckshot will also annihilate entire rooms, dealing 95 at point blank

[Luke Cox]

Maybe we should start with a 25% health reduction and raise/lower it accordingly

[TechnoAlchemist]

I honestly can't wait to buy the revolver as a traitor

[1g88a]

Finally, a test that makes goddamn sense. 50 might be a little low but I'm all for a deadlier station.

Edit: Strawpoll the sequel: https://strawpoll.me/7159236

I'm up for a deadlier station but not like this, I'd rather have stuff like bullets embedding.

[PKPenguin321]

I honestly can't wait to buy the revolver as a traitor

dont waste your TCs, get an esword. they're balanced around 100 health by specifically requiring 4 hits to crit, now they'll do it in two (probably even against sec officers)
esword ebow will be stupid effective

[NikNakFlak]

Excuse me, running two tests at once messes up the variables. You can't know if the outcome you get is influenced by the other test going on at the same time. This is basic experimental procedure.
Bad test

[Zilenan91]

The No Common test got ended I thought

[1g88a]

The health test began literally the next round after the radio test ended afaik.

[PKPenguin321]

The No Common test got ended I thought

yep. get with the times niknak

[Archie700]

Stamina damage with this test is pretty fucked.

EDIT: Apparently stamina damage does not recover with this test unless you sleep it off. Is it a bug or a feature?

[lumipharon]

This is completely rediculous. Revolver tators are just 1 hit murdering the entire crew down, there is basically nothing you can do.

[Zilenan91]

Should I even try joining if every round devolves to endless revolver murderbone?

[Hornygranny]

I'm postponing this until the glaring bugs get resolved (and the second attempt will probably be more than 50% health)

[1g88a]

I'm postponing this until the glaring bugs get resolved (and the second attempt will probably be more than 50% health)

Thank you, it was horrifying having every stamina weapon being a perma stun. A sec officer with poor aim could cripple half the station before they figured out they had to sleep to recoup their stamina loss.

[Davidchan]

Test six: removing medical

Test seven: manual breathing

[Steelpoint]

A health value change is interesting but needs to be tempered.

Your honestly better off looking into buffing all weapon and item damage values instead of changing the health of people.

[Zilenan91]

Changing the health of people would probably be simpler than changing the values of every single item in the entire game

[Steelpoint]

Difference is weapon damage is based around the 200/100 health system, not a 100/50 health system.

Again, Revolvers are a one shot crit, only the HoS and maybe the Captain (based on RNG) can survive one shot at only 2 HP left. Eswords, Lasers Guns and 15 damaging weapons suddenly becomes godly effective.

Best way forward for this is either being more gentle and reducing to 75 ish HP, or rebalancing all items in the game.

[Incoming]

Everything in the game is based around a 200/100 health system. Those config options were added in late 2011, but I doubt anyone ever really balanced around them.

[ShadowDimentio]

Zil you did this to us

You suggested it and then immediately followed it up with THIS IS JUST A THEORY AND IS A BAD IDEA

But you did this to us

When can we stop running shitty changes and go back to good old SS13?

I'm postponing this until the glaring bugs get resolved (and the second attempt will probably be more than 50% health)

>People are complaining that this is already awful
>KEEP GOING, THE CODECUCK DEMANDS IT

[Ricotez]

The game is balanced around 200 health that goes from 100 to -100 and crit at 0.

For example, your limbs can only take 75 damage each, so that you can't go into crit from maximum damage to just 1 limb.

This is a very silly change, if you really want stuff to be more deadly make it harder to heal damage.

[CPTANT]

Buffing lethals like the laser, 10mm etc is a better option than flat out cutting health.

[Incomptinence]

Oh boy it's everything I ever wanted.

Thanks zile for helping me open the blood gates your asimophobia did one thing right!

[ThanatosRa]

What about bumping it up to 60. Or even 75. And doing the test when I can be home from work to test it.

[Hornygranny]

Once the issues related to the config changes are fixed I'm thinking 75.

[GeeElAge]

The game is balanced around 200 health that goes from 100 to -100 and crit at 0.

For example, your limbs can only take 75 damage each, so that you can't go into crit from maximum damage to just 1 limb.

This is a very silly change, if you really want stuff to be more deadly make it harder to heal damage.

Remember when we got a chemistry overhaul because the old one was just "one-click healing".

Yeah....

[Malkevin]

A health value change is interesting but needs to be tempered.

Your honestly better off looking into buffing all weapon and item damage values instead of changing the health of people.

Changing the health of people would probably be simpler than changing the values of every single item in the entire game

I was actually planning on implementing a config option to modify damage received in the Apply_Damage procs of human.dm


Basically it would do this:
dam = min(weapon.force * DAMAGE_MODIFIER, or DAMAGE_CAP)
armorcalcs(dam)

For those that can't into code:
It grabs the force value of the weapon item as the damage to apply (as it does now)
It multiplies that by the DAMAGE_MODIFIER definition.
It compares that value to the DAMAGE_CAP define then takes the smaller of the two (to prevent one hit kills)
Then it does the armor calcs, etc


Quick and dirty way of buffing weapon damage, but its a lot more convenient than going through all the force values and tweaking them by hand - which is overboard for running a quick test of things.

[Grazyn]

Reminder that weapons are balanced for 100 damage to crit

[Malkevin]

Weapons are balanced to be shit - 10 hits into someone's noggin with a fire extinguisher just crit them?
Five laser hits
20 hits with an industrial wrench?

And you wonder why combat revolves around stuns.

[Eaglendia]

Weapons are balanced to be shit - 10 hits into someone's noggin with a fire extinguisher just crit them?
Five laser hits
20 hits with an industrial wrench?

And you wonder why combat revolves around stuns.

The foremost issue to be addressed with a change like this is a buff across the board unbalances ranged weapons. I can easily picture a healthy environment in which most melee and throwing weapons deal 1.5x to 2x their normal damage (some things might definitely require fine adjustnent), but a blanket modifier like this one would have revolvers and shotgun lethals doing 120+ a shot.

Our medical system isn't robust enough to adequately represent the consequences of getting shot, so there isn't really a better way to add additional lethality to ballistics beyond more damage, stamina damage, or knockdown/KO. But you can see how balance issues might begin to arise when people aren't resilient to a single bullet. You could argue, of course, that a taser shot is already instant death, but the weapons and projectiles involved have different properties, and getting stunned has different gameplay consequences than outright dying to one round.

[CPTANT]

Weapons are balanced to be shit - 10 hits into someone's noggin with a fire extinguisher just crit them?
Five laser hits
20 hits with an industrial wrench?

And you wonder why combat revolves around stuns.

That has always been the problem, dedicated weapons meant to operate without restriction do complete shit and require 5 shots to disable someone and the taser 1 shot gg's them.

[Malkevin]

Weapons are balanced to be shit - 10 hits into someone's noggin with a fire extinguisher just crit them?
Five laser hits
20 hits with an industrial wrench?

And you wonder why combat revolves around stuns.

The foremost issue to be addressed with a change like this is a buff across the board unbalances ranged weapons. I can easily picture a healthy environment in which most melee and throwing weapons deal 1.5x to 2x their normal damage (some things might definitely require fine adjustnent), but a blanket modifier like this one would have revolvers and shotgun lethals doing 120+ a shot.

Our medical system isn't robust enough to adequately represent the consequences of getting shot, so there isn't really a better way to add additional lethality to ballistics beyond more damage, stamina damage, or knockdown/KO. But you can see how balance issues might begin to arise when people aren't resilient to a single bullet. You could argue, of course, that a taser shot is already instant death, but the weapons and projectiles involved have different properties, and getting stunned has different gameplay consequences than outright dying to one round.

As easily solved as putting an { if istype(item\projectile) use PROJECTILE_DAM_MOD else use MELEE_DAM_MOD } statement in

[Venticular]

I think we should do a test where we increase the deadliness of weapons, like Malkevin is suggesting, and decreasing the chance and effectiveness of stuns/disables, like in this thread, so that tasers/stun weapons are not one hit GG without any kind of anti-stun chemicals or implants.

Well, change this test from decreasing health to tweaking the combat system, which is also making it more deadly, so I suppose it could be called the same test.

[Zilenan91]

We could always remove the revolver if it limits lethality design too much.

[onleavedontatme]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16336

[ShadowDimentio]

We could always remove the revolver if it limits lethality design too much.

Or we could not run changed that throw all previous ideas of balance out the window and fucks the gameplay sideways

I'm not excited to see this tested

[Reece]

Maybe increase how fast you bleed out and have guns cause more bleeding?

[yackemflam]

For fucks sakes guys I've been recommending to increase the damage of all items since forever.
30 damage metal rods when?

[Zilenan91]

So is there any ETA on when the test will start again?

[Hornygranny]

tomorrow provided it works

[Luke Cox]

Could we try reducing health by 25% this time instead of 50%

[PKPenguin321]

next time the test rolls around there will be a weapon damage multiplier instead of a human health change