So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:41 pm #243920

Bottom post of the previous page:

The biggest issue if they were brought back is the fact that you also need to buff traitor AI enough for it to be it's own game mode again, or risk every traitor and DA round being dominated.

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:43 pm #243945

D&B wrote:The biggest issue if they were brought back is the fact that you also need to buff traitor AI enough for it to be it's own game mode again, or risk every traitor and DA round being dominated.

Hacked AI laws would become insanely OP if you were an asshole or super funny if you were just fucking around.

"Arrest the clown at all costs. Put them in a cell for 20 seconds each time you catch them and when they're released give them a 5 minute head start."

Alternatively: "Arrest X. They are not human. Drag them into space." if youre an asshole.

Post by **Armhulen** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:12 pm #243952

So...

secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:13 pm #243953

I meant dominated by the malf AI.

Borg machine + stuns GG ez

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:49 pm #243970

Armhulen wrote:So...

secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:00 pm #243971

D&B wrote:I meant dominated by the malf AI.

Borg machine + stuns GG ez

Other antags have stuns of their own and nobody is claiming they dominate. Hell roles like changeling have common options to actively negate legit stuns and binds used against them. And non-antag crew has plenty of other stuns vs borgs (hint: It rhymes with Ion Rifles) Of all the stun items in the game that have been nerfed or reduced over the last few years, the anti-borg equipment hasn't been touched.

ShadowDimentio · Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:02 pm

D&B wrote:I meant dominated by the malf AI.

Borg machine + stuns GG ez

They weren't that good even in the ye olden days.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:11 pm #243973

Perhaps the problem was not that security borgs were good, but rather that certain people were just really shit? I mean the whinging against security hasn't gone away. How many poorly baked cakes do you have to make before you stop changing the oven and realise that the baker might be the issue.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:19 pm #243999

D&B wrote:I meant dominated by the malf AI.

Borg machine + stuns GG ez

AIs that bought a borg machine didn't automatically win when malf was a gamemode, I'm not sure why they'd automatically win now

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:45 pm

ShadowDimentio wrote:
D&B wrote:I meant dominated by the malf AI.

Borg machine + stuns GG ez
They weren't that good even in the ye olden days.

Yeah the real meta is n2o + Borg machine + borgs to defend it

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:51 pm #244007

I guess I am probably overestimating it, but the lack of conflict between secborgs and crew (as in crew is not used to fight them) combined with the readily availability of stuns would make the AI stronger in a game mode where it is not the only thing destroying and killing shit.

A secborg could very easily snatch people away under the guise of "traitor set on arrest" while the ai builds a Borg army.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:22 pm #244043

CosmicScientist wrote:
Reece wrote:Perhaps the problem was not that security borgs were good, but rather that certain people were just really shit? I mean the whinging against security hasn't gone away. How many poorly baked cakes do you have to make before you stop changing the oven and realise that the baker might be the issue.
That's an odd analogy. Metaphor? I always get confused what those are supposed to be called.

I've been baking cakes recently because I'm a fat ass. And it's a metaphor I think

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:15 pm #244056

D&B wrote:I guess I am probably overestimating it, but the lack of conflict between secborgs and crew (as in crew is not used to fight them) combined with the readily availability of stuns would make the AI stronger in a game mode where it is not the only thing destroying and killing shit.

A secborg could very easily snatch people away under the guise of "traitor set on arrest" while the ai builds a Borg army.

not really. there was a point where malf was ded but secborgs were not yet kill. in actuality in traitor modes the AI fares worse, because if the AI doomsdays or plasmafloods all the traitors will come out to help kill it, which they can do with about 6 tc of gear in 30 seconds ggnore (borgs also don't matter)

malf was easier than traitorAI with secborgs

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 am #244473

all credit to pkp

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:13 am #244483

dionysus24779 wrote:hurrr hurr da heee i'm gonna necro a cancer thread

off yourself please

the rest of you too

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:11 am #244530

classic pax, always offering an inspiring and well thought out bit of wisdom everywhere they go.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:13 pm #244538

Pax is generally right.

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:41 pm #244628

pax is unequivocally in the right

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:05 pm #244640

This summer

One thread

Will endure even death itself

Starring: Pro secborg shitters

Anti secborg shitters

Random shitposters

Prepare your anus for

THREAD FROM THE DEAD

Rated R, starts friday

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:16 pm #244642

Can I see it in IMAX?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:17 pm #244643

IMAX 3d ONLY

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:40 pm #258008

I talked to Cheridan today he said that secborgs and shadowlings were fixed UPDATE TOMORROW

cedarbridge · Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:23 pm

A3STH3T1CS wrote:I talked to Cheridan today he said that secborgs and shadowlings were fixed UPDATE TOMORROW

And then no update happened.

As a side note, I'm still upset that a broad stroke was cut to remove a fairly important tool for AIs. I'd rather that borgs that were more interested in valids than laws were just banned from sillycones instead but eh.

However, I've been watching a probable future change that's almost ready that might make the role a bit better again.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:34 pm #258998

A3STH3T1CS wrote:I talked to Cheridan today he said that secborgs and shadowlings were fixed UPDATE TOMORROW

Soon(tm)

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:22 pm #259034

cedarbridge wrote:I'm still upset that a broad stroke was cut to remove a fairly important tool for AIs.

coderbus is a hivemind of people from goon that think they own tgstation

goofball is the only real savior

only goofball can bring back sec borgs

Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:36 pm

A3STH3T1CS wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:I'm still upset that a broad stroke was cut to remove a fairly important tool for AIs.
coderbus is a hivemind of people from goon that think they own tgstation

goofball is the only real savior

only goofball can bring back sec borgs

No, secborgs are a config option, anybody could readd them. It's more that anybody who's been around long enough to seriously consider running for headmin has also been around to see how awful secborgs were.

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:50 pm #259051

PKPenguin321 wrote:No, secborgs are a config option, anybody could readd them. It's more that anybody who's been around long enough to seriously consider running for headmin has also been around to see how awful secborgs were.

I never thought about it like that. Something to think about for me.

cedarbridge · Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:16 am

PKPenguin321 wrote:
A3STH3T1CS wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:I'm still upset that a broad stroke was cut to remove a fairly important tool for AIs.
coderbus is a hivemind of people from goon that think they own tgstation

goofball is the only real savior

only goofball can bring back sec borgs
No, secborgs are a config option, anybody could readd them. It's more that anybody who's been around long enough to seriously consider running for headmin has also been around to see how awful secborg players were.

ftfy
Even back in 2014 I remember lecturing secborgs as an engieborg about not following their laws. There's just some disconnect between players and the role and players who cannot fathom "I follow my laws" is the directive rather than "I'm an advanced human" should not be playing AI/borgs at all. I mean, its a disconnect that can be solved really easily with applying harsher sillycones bans, and stricter application of policy wouldn't end up kneecapping AIs. As is right now, an AI without malf modules has borgs that are essentially worthless against threats with so much as a pair of sunglasses.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:25 am #259065

fucking idiot

stop posting in this thread

cedarbridge · Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:32 am

IcePacks wrote:fucking idiot

stop posting in this thread

Fight me Pax.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:37 am #259071

IcePacks wrote:fucking idiot

stop posting in this thread

why are you talking to yourself

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:13 am #259092

because i have personality issues KILL THE FUCKING THREAD

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:50 am #259203

So, secborgs re-enabled anyheadmin soon?

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:01 am #259206

Armhulen wrote:So, secborgs re-enabled anyheadmin soon?

From this thread.
I say no,
DemonFiren says test re-add,
Beesting says no,
Shadowdimentio is irrevelant he left the race, (but said yes)
Oxford wants a rework,
Ausops says he'd support reasonable attempts to make similar types,
PKP says no,
Joan (who won host pick) says no secborg but maybe similar intentioned better balanced borg modules,
Alipheese says no,
Goof says no,
Thunder says no,
Mimic says no,
TehPear wants coders to make a better one and without that no.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:31 am #259216

outlook not good

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:14 am #259223

part of the problem was that sec-borgs were called secborgs, the name alone made people who picked the module think that they were just robotic security officers first and silicons second.

I think peacekeeper borgs were a good first step but some coders seem to be dead set on keeping them a shitty meme module despite that being absolutely HORRIBLE game design. You dont want to punish people for taking a module whos point is to enforce law 1. plus it would be funny to have the little egg dorks be more of a thorn in the side of the crew who want to beat each other.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:45 pm #261048

they weren't added to enforce law, they were added to be a shitty meme module that annoyed the people who wanted the secborg back, that's why they're so ineffective

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:53 pm #261051

Are there people who genuinely don't that? It's an egg that can hug you and can only screech autistically when someone gets hurt.

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:10 am #261063

Reece wrote:Are there people who genuinely don't that? It's an egg that can hug you and can only screech autistically when someone gets hurt.

standard borgs have stuns and cuffs. PK literally has no place anymore

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:58 am #261075

Reece wrote:Are there people who genuinely don't that? It's an egg that can hug you and can only screech autistically when someone gets hurt.

Likely the people who didn't expect a thing they liked to turn into a mockery of its original form with a straight face.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:59 am #261170

cedarbridge wrote:
Reece wrote:Are there people who genuinely don't that? It's an egg that can hug you and can only screech autistically when someone gets hurt.
Likely the people who didn't expect a thing they liked to turn into a mockery of its original form with a straight face.

Is it wrong to expect good game design? seriously, who the hell programmed PKborgs in the first place? because I swear they would be considered meme PR tier if they were suggested today.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:10 am #261171

I thought the Peacekeepers were meant as a wedge to eventually in the future slowly reintroduce aspects of the Security Cyborg back into the game.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:12 am #261172

peacekeeper borgs was the end result of some people having their cake then eating it too

Post by **oranges** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:22 am #261174

Dr_bee wrote:Is it wrong to expect good game design? .

Yes lol

dionysus24779 · Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:08 pm

beerobot wrote:they weren't added to enforce law, they were added to be a shitty meme module that annoyed the people who wanted the secborg back, that's why they're so ineffective

As far as I remember it was the exact opposite and meant to mock the players who couldn't deal with Secborgs.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:26 pm #261393

you should see a doctor about getting your memory checked

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:47 am #261535

that boy got the same join date as you

i think he might be telling the truth

Post by **oranges** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:50 am #261536

What does the forum join date have to do with the reasons why we maintainers merged the peacekeeper borg?

who would be more likely to know that information Aesthetics?

engage your brain before posting please

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:18 am

A3STH3T1CS wrote:that boy got the same join date as you

i think he might be telling the truth

Diony was pretty much infamous for posting a new salty tale about them playing borg and losing to something regular (or not getting renamed to their preferred borg name) in "rage, tears, and regret" back in the day and as far as I know played way less frequently (or at least stopped posting as much) right around when secborgs went

Wouldn't take their opinions with much weight

dionysus24779 · Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:19 am

beerobot wrote:you should see a doctor about getting your memory checked

I actually remember it pretty well as I was in favor of adding the Peacekeeper for that very reason I stated, to give the whiners the "secborg" they wanted so badly.

PKPenguin321 wrote: pathetic ad hominem

Well that's entirely wrong, me being "infamous" can only be attributed to people like you blowing what I post in the threat designated to rant about bad rounds way out of proportion to be like a minor meme, because often I can't even post there without others getting an autistic screeching episode and dismissing whatever I actually say.

How often I play these days or post on this forum and why that is doesn't even factor into this discussion at all and it surely wasn't because the Secborg was removed who was always my nr. 2 choice after the engineering module anyways.

By the way borg names auto-set to what players select since quite some time now and my complains about not getting "muh name" make up a miniscule part of my posts, which I even proved once by sitting down and counting the times I complained about it vs. when I didn't.

And not to sound like a hypocrite, but PK you are known for your blind foaming hatred of borgs... so... just saying.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:08 am #261563

I don't know what to say other than I merged the pr and I think I would understand my own reasons for doing so, even if you believed it was for different reasons than the ones I have put forth.