appearance ban appeal / general complaint

[cxmu]

For a single round, I set my name to Zoey Weeb because I saw Zoey Webb playing, and have seen Zoey Webb playing for probably +100 rounds and this is a well known static name.
Before we get started, I have no problem with Zoey Webb, I do not know Zoey Webb, beyond the fact that Zoey Webb is a commonly seen static name to the point I wondered if it was a default name like Skiddle.

Despite the fact that Zoey did not ahelp about the topic as far as I know, and all I did during the round was mine and lag to death in lava, Arianya found fault with this, couldn't cite the rule being broken, and generally acted like a power-tripping idiot, and felt the need to issue and appearance ban despite the self-evident satirical nature of a temporary name that wasn't being complained about. I could be mistaken, and maybe Zoey Webb did complain, but Arianya explicitly ignored my request to tell me if that was the case.

I mostly want to take this as an opportunity state my grief with the general admin quality across the board: everything to applying notes to me for IC OOC during the end of the (definitely not changling) round for saying some stupid meme like "mime is absorbing me in the ai chamber", banning me for killing a traitor, to even bwoinking me for 'OOC IC' after I was cloned and my character wAS!! saying NUNSENSE!111 from brain damage. A month later, I saw the guy who bwoinked me promoted to a headmin role; and I later ahelped about a bug that allowed you to obtain unlimited metal rods from lavaland, only to be told I should file a github issue because clearly the admins are incapable of taking bug reports themselves and I should be obligated to sign up for the cesspool of open source political correctness.

CitrusGender so far has been the only level-headed administrator worth any praise, and that was for banning me for only half a day after griefing some really shitty security members who left a grenade named Death next to my cell after brigging me for 10 minutes for throwing my PDA or something & and an honorable mention, orange gave me a trophy after I reported a bug that allowed you to quickly obtain unlimited materials from the holodeck.

The server is being quickly driven into the ground by this kind of senseless bullshit (along with insufferable lag spikes) and is more than likely the reason the Patreon has only 14 donors despite a server population of hundreds.


If I was at fault, ban me permanently.


-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: On an unrelated note, your name isn't really acceptable and is a violation of rule 1 since you're trying to mock another player with it. Obviously you're already dead this round but please change it for future rounds.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: You can click on my name to respond, if you weren't sure =)

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Uh you are completely wrong about the rules. Here is a helpful link for you: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: Unfortunately I did discuss this with other admins before hand, and my ruling is final. You're welcome to make an admin complaint if you disagree but the ruling will stand otherwise on Rule 1 violations. Please remember to change your name for future rounds

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Please copy and paste the exact rule I am breaking.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: I believe you have a link to it just there, I presume you can see which Rule is Rule 1?

PM to-Admins: Don't be a dick.

PM to-Admins: Surely I am in violation of neither one of those, if I were screaming profanities or doing anything other than being a parody of a static, yes, I would be in violation

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: Really going around as a mean-spirited "parody" of a static isn't kosher from a rules or gameplay point of view. As I've stated, my ruling is unfortunately final, but you're welcome to complain about it on the forums if you feel I'm grossly incorrect.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: What is mean spirited about _anything_ I have done or said? I was a miner, the only miner, and then I died because you guys can't figure out how to clear memory in BYOND.

PM to-Admins: Did Zoey complain, or is this just you acting out?

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: The way you've behaved both in deadchat and in ahelps gives me no real faith that you're acting to make a friendly joke with the other player, and more so that you dislike the "static name" you're mocking. Since you don't seem to appreciate why this is necessary, and I don't really have faith in you keeping to the rules, I'll be applying an appearance ban, which can be appealed on the forums.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: You're further escaclating a non-issue that is fundamentally about a parody name that is made completey in satire, and not hatred or harrassment on someone's static name, for a single round, who presumably has not complained about it.

You have been appearance banned by arianya.

The reason is: Used a name in order to mock another players static, was politely asked to avoid this as a Rule 1 violation and decided they did not agree with this. This ban is due to my lack of belief that you will comply with not misusing identity, but you are free to appeal it on the forums.

Appearance ban can be lifted only upon request.

To try to resolve this matter head to https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=7

PM to-Admins: So yeah, I will be making a complaint, not because I want to use the name Zoey Weeb, but because you're being a power tripping idiot.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Arianya: I appreciate your feedback and I hope you have a good round! =)

[Alexch2]

Please make ban appeals and admin complaints separately.

[Saegrimr]

This one is going places. The trashcan likely.
I don't know what other servers you've been on, but ahelps and appeals like this historically have been tantrum-filled trip out of here. Nobody's got time for that shit.

[cxmu]

Please make ban appeals and admin complaints separately.

Please don't suck the dick of bureaucracy in BYOND too hard.

This one is going places. The trashcan likely.

Sounds a lot like TGStation's general direction which is exactly why I can't bring myself to pull out my credit card and become the 15th Patreon supporter (and neither can anyone else apparently).

[Arianya]

Regardless of your feelings regarding /tg/station or this specific incident, please use the format located at https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44

We ask this of all players who make a ban appeal so it'd be unfair to not ask you to do the same =)

[FantasticFwoosh]

Quickly holding onto my Anon amendment: There are no parody policy threads i am aware of over IC names or a whitelist of names that cannot be parodied or are protected administrative static's disabling normal players from using or parody'ing them either, to clarify. The responders have valid complaints about re-organising your appeal formatting @cxmu to take this seriously if you want to be clear with your outlined complaint. If a headmin will enter this thread before a formal re-write can occur to mediate the outcome then there's no point ambiguating the solution Saegmir before then, and that is your opinion because a verdict will be delivered and this appeal solved in due time.

• Some more detail such as ban length would be beneficial

To summarise, I believe this ban is summary to rule 6 but explicitly can't be linked to rule 7 if it did not happen after numerous rounds after a initial deterrant with the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty and was dealt with behavioural basis under rule 1 as stated under the ban clause not actually pertaining to the appearance complaint of the character. I personally have had my own name changed with var-editing professionally by optimumtact in a appearance related complaint quickly and discreetly to avoid any problems with the knowledge that after a initial warning i would not have a leg to stand upon if i repeated the offence and was lead to believe that this is or would have been a common practice amongst admins.

That's all i wanted to say, thanks.

[Timbrewolf]

The me amendment!

"Admin PM from-Arianya: On an unrelated note, your name isn't really acceptable and is a violation of rule 1 since you're trying to mock another player with it. Obviously you're already dead this round but please change it for future rounds."

You received a very calmly worded request to change something you yourself admit was parodying another player.
You have no beef with that other player or urgent attachment to the name. You were not coincidentally "Zoey Weeb" from another server.

While every a sensible person would be like "haha you got my joke" and change it afterwards you sperged out of control and started a rules-lawyering argument with the admin over something you already knew was antagonistic towards another player for no raisins.

If the Rule #1 justification isn't satisfying enough there's the Rule 3 precedent

Excessively OOC names fall under rule 3. Make a minimum effort to have your name fit in a setting involving a wacky space station in the future. A firstname lastname minimum is required and no honorifics are allowed. Nicknames in the middle are ok. Admins may get involved if your name is dumb and can approve or disallow names at their discretion while ingame.

Being verbally abusive towards admins in PM's, using terms like "power-tripping idiot", has prettymuch always been a fast-track to at least a temporary ban if not a perma-pending-appeal. Maybe the patreon doesn't have a 15th donor because 14 people's money is enough to keep this place policed from players like you?

[Dax Dupont]

We've always disallowed people using other people's names, one letter difference just to be a chumbis about said person is a violation of the don't be a dick rule.

As for bugs, we're voulenteers and we have better things to constantly write issue reports especially when you consider the fact that some rounds generate 20+ ahelps that may or may not require investigating. It takes 3 minutes to sign up for GitHub. There's even a handy report issue button on the client that includes round.

Might I suggest hippie? Seems like a better fit for you.

[Qbmax32]

For the life of me I don’t understand why you can’t simply follow a polite request to change a name from an admin and then have the gall to make a poorly worded complaint/appeal/rant about how tg is dying and that the admin team sucks because you got banned for not following a simple request in an online game. I don’t know where you expected this to go other then the trash bin honestly.

[imblyings]

>always disallowed

But thats blatantly not true. Admins have perhaps stepped in when players grief or play with the intention of causing severe disrepute to the original player. Admins can change your name at their discretion but rule 0 applies, in the context of all admin actions especially enforcement ones, being for the betterment of the server.

There is nothing good that comes from babying players and their oc so hard admins have to crack down on light jokes made at a static characters expense. In fact this kind of admin enforcement can only fuck up this server and its not encouraging to see this overly sensitive and protective mindset in newer admins.

[imblyings]

Admin discretion to change names does not mean you enforce whatever fits your own particular admin fancy, especially if a player has done nothing to try and give the original user of the name a bad reputation. Its there so admins, in compliance with rule 0, can take easily justifiable action against players who try to toe the line with bad names. Zoey Weeb might not be a great name but nothing about it is horrifically OOC or line toeing.

This absolutely deserves an appeal.

[Qbmax32]

Does it deserve a normal appeal?

Yeah, I could see that. And I would probably support it too.

Does it deserve an appeal made almost exclusively to fling shit at the banning admin and to rant about how the server is dying?

No not really.

[imblyings]

Maybe youve been an admin for too long, but if I can see how a player had complete reason to think they were wronged by server administration, why cant I similarily empathize with them lashing out at it?

We ignore, understand and deal with so much emotional shit from players ingame who have all sorts of grievances and take that into consideration, and thats just IC stuff, so why cant we do the same here with OOC things?

[Timbrewolf]

Admin discretion to change names does not mean you enforce whatever fits your own particular admin fancy, especially if a player has done nothing to try and give the original user of the name a bad reputation. Its there so admins, in compliance with rule 0, can take easily justifiable action against players who try to toe the line with bad names. Zoey Weeb might not be a great name but nothing about it is horrifically OOC or line toeing.

This absolutely deserves an appeal.

Those are your opinions. According to the rules Arianya was within their right to do it. The player even admits it was to parody another player. As I said if they were just coincidentally Zoey Weeb from another server there would be an argument to be made that there's nothing wrong here but when they even say

"For a single round, I set my name to Zoey Weeb because I saw Zoey Webb playing"

[imblyings]

>Admins are fully accountable for any consequences should they invoke this rule. Admins are also allowed to intervene in rounds when it is in the best interest of the playerbase.

Your post doesnt meet the anon3 guideline as it is fallacious. Their actions did not benefit the server and therefore their decision to intervene was not backed by rule 0 or the naming rule. It is not entirely their fault, it is not possible to train new admins on every tiny bit of common sense and when training is lacking, personal opinions on rule enforcement derived from their own experience of tg will fill the void. However, their own opinions were wrong and will hopefully change from here on.

[Arianya]

Hi I'm ignoring this appeal until the OP follows the format but I figured I'd interrupt your hot argument on the merits of protecting OCs or whatever and drop this in here.

DEADCHAT: Zoey Weeb says, " There is a good chance Zoey Webb has a big fat ass in real life, but a very small chance that Zoey is actually a woman. "

The issues at hand was not just the closeness of the names, but the intent behind it. Originally this was just going to be a friendly bwoink and left without a note let alone an appearance ban but since I had no faith that they would follow the ruling I felt the need to apply this ban.

Also even ignoring everything else, we've had rulings in the past that using identical/minor difference names can be ruled against due to the understandable IC confusion it causes. It was a secondary concern so I didn't mention it in the ticket but it is absolutely a reason you shouldn't go around as Aria Boullet or Mekhi Andersun or what have you.

[Timbrewolf]

Your post doesnt meet the anon3 guideline as it is fallacious. Their actions did not benefit the server

More opinions. Objectively they have the right to ask anyone to change their names at their own discretion. It's directly in Rule 3 that I quoted.

It benefits the server by defusing hostility between players. Seeing someone running around as the parody version of yourself can create a situation between two people, if not make the player feel personally insulted or persecuted.

Mechanically it causes problems when Zoey Weeb gets into a fight, or is a traitor of some kind, and Zoey Webb ends up getting chased down and beaten because people didn't notice the slight difference in their names.

[Bluespace]

This is a fantastic thread.
"PM to-Admins: Did Zoey complain, or is this just you acting out?"
I LOVE IT.

[imblyings]

As i said in discord, players and characters get shit talked. Admins arent here to baby people unless a clear pattern of metagrudging can be established.

The only rulings weve had for similar names were for dumb gimmicks when many players took on the same name in order to grief. Do not quote precedents that dont apply. If people cant spot the difference in the two names, and if they werent griefing with the similar name, there is no justification for admin involvement.

Really the only justification for any of this would be admitting that tg wants to go the route of having overbearing admins who insist on ooc punishments when the players involved havent even begun to think about dealing with it IC themselves.

Stop being a waste of space, either refute rule 0 or fuck off back to stalking people from tg and asking for pics anon3.

[Timbrewolf]

You're calling me a liar, trying to insult me with that or telling other admins that they haven't been admins long enough to know how to really use the rules when I'm just trying to point out that there is a clear line in the rules that gives Arianya the power to do what they did in this situation, and explain some examples of why it's beneficial.

Please calm down.

[imblyings]

Dont take this as criticism however its still a bad use iof admin powers which dont set good precedents nor encourage healthy mindsets for tg. I've done bad bans before, had egg on my face, lifted the ban and apologized. Thats all this thread needs.

Lmao fuck off with the calm moral high ground anon3
> not make the player feel personally insulted or persecuted.
>you saying this with a straight face

You got kicked out of here for a good reason stop trying to win favor by being a yesman when you still cant refute rule 0 not applying.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Before some of these comments are mass deleted, the Anon3 clause has defined rules for contributions that upholding in turn strengthens the resolve for letting it remain as it is and maintain the right to comment through it, please though your eagerness to particpate i appreciate; this is not the NTRhut so please try not to over-extend these guidelines.

I am aware my own anon response is imperfect to this model but i accept whichever decision is took with it, and it does dispense information that could be deemed useful.

[BeeSting12]

Here's a relevant policy thread: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 57#p347470

Funnily enough, I remember the exact same situation happening a few months before that thread with another policy thread, but that's the most recent one.

Fine as a one off thing but wears thin quickly with overuse is the general consensus amongst the headmins in both threads IIRC.

He wouldn't have been deserving of a ban or even a note until he started acting like a cunt nugget in admin PMs.

[Timbrewolf]

Arianya's actions line up perfectly with that. The person was already dead and their round essentially over before they were asked to change it for future rounds.

[Lumbermancer]

Pryce Bax?

[Saegrimr]

I check back 5 hours later and this is still an improperly formatted fingerpoint debate, sounds like another fun policy thread in the making but this isn't a ban appeal.