"Sentient" Monkeys
- Cheridan
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:04 am
- Byond Username: Cheridan
"Sentient" Monkeys
Can we please please stop using this term to describe animals which are player-controlled. I know "MY IMMERSION" has become a meme but I seriously get dragged out of character every time I hear someone use this term.
sen·tient
ˈsen(t)SH(ē)ənt/
adjective
able to perceive or feel things.
Nearly all animals are sentient. It makes no sense to use this term to describe a monkey that happens to be walking around, as a monkey that is not walking around is still sentient by definition.
If a monkey is walking around, he's subject to mutilation from the seemingly anti-"sentient" crew. If a borg gets a law to exterminate non-humans, they're generally going to ignore the uncontrolled apes in the genetics pens. Currently this doesn't make sense from a roleplaying perspective, it's simply a result of people knowing that if a monkey is running around, then they are controlled by a player and therefore could be a threat, as opposed to the other uncontrolled ones.
So what's the solution? A simple fluff change: All roundstart monkeys and other animals are lobotomized and/or sedated by NT before the shift starts, due to safety concerns.
This explains why they have no reaction to their surroundings, and why borgs often show no regard to them -- they're no threat due to their lowered mental state.
This also gives justification for the crew's suspicion of player-controlled monkeys. They have not been lobotomized, meaning that they are not part of the initial NT ape shipment and therefore suspicious.
There's a third fluff advantage. One of our fluff Syndicate member groups is the ARC -- Animal Rights Coalition, who opposes NT because of their abuse of animals. Currently, there's, uh... not that much mistreatment of animals, to be honest (though Xenobio can kind of turn into a horrifying factory farm). Mandatory lobotomization of station animals gives the ARC a more valid case against NT.
sen·tient
ˈsen(t)SH(ē)ənt/
adjective
able to perceive or feel things.
Nearly all animals are sentient. It makes no sense to use this term to describe a monkey that happens to be walking around, as a monkey that is not walking around is still sentient by definition.
If a monkey is walking around, he's subject to mutilation from the seemingly anti-"sentient" crew. If a borg gets a law to exterminate non-humans, they're generally going to ignore the uncontrolled apes in the genetics pens. Currently this doesn't make sense from a roleplaying perspective, it's simply a result of people knowing that if a monkey is running around, then they are controlled by a player and therefore could be a threat, as opposed to the other uncontrolled ones.
So what's the solution? A simple fluff change: All roundstart monkeys and other animals are lobotomized and/or sedated by NT before the shift starts, due to safety concerns.
This explains why they have no reaction to their surroundings, and why borgs often show no regard to them -- they're no threat due to their lowered mental state.
This also gives justification for the crew's suspicion of player-controlled monkeys. They have not been lobotomized, meaning that they are not part of the initial NT ape shipment and therefore suspicious.
There's a third fluff advantage. One of our fluff Syndicate member groups is the ARC -- Animal Rights Coalition, who opposes NT because of their abuse of animals. Currently, there's, uh... not that much mistreatment of animals, to be honest (though Xenobio can kind of turn into a horrifying factory farm). Mandatory lobotomization of station animals gives the ARC a more valid case against NT.
- Ergovisavi
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:03 pm
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
We could just use "sapient" instead.
- Cheridan
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:04 am
- Byond Username: Cheridan
Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
...That's just a synonym!! It's the exact same thing. It still doesn't make any sense because it doesn't explain any of the behaviors I mentioned.
Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
So monkey cubes make lobodimized monkies? That doesnt make much sense to me.
- MMMiracles
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
You question the logic behind the state the monkeys from the cubes and not the logic behind monkey cubes in general?deathhoof wrote:So monkey cubes make lobodimized monkies? That doesnt make much sense to me.
Spoiler:
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
How about we call player controlled monkeys, "Intelligent."
I bet you're also the kind of person that dies whenever someone says 'dark side' of the moon, rather than, 'far side' of the moon.
I bet you're also the kind of person that dies whenever someone says 'dark side' of the moon, rather than, 'far side' of the moon.
Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
They're only synonyms in the same way that stupid, moron, and idiot are synonyms.Cheridan wrote:...That's just a synonym!! It's the exact same thing. It still doesn't make any sense because it doesn't explain any of the behaviors I mentioned.
To the layman they mean the same thing, to the scientist they mean different levels of a scale. (FYI: for the above example its a persons intellect compared to the average intellect of an average human of a certain age. e.g. a moron is someone who is as intelligent as a normal average seven year old)
- Cheridan
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:04 am
- Byond Username: Cheridan
Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
You're missing the point. WHY are they magically more intelligent than these other monkeys on the station? Picking another word out of http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sentient?s=t doesn't solve anything. It's not the word that's the problem, it's the implication that "Yes, sometimes, rarely, monkeys actually act like monkeys and move around. But most of they just stand and move one tile's worth of space every 3.5 seconds. Also, if they're moving, you should kill them, even though they're just monkeys!"Silavite wrote:How about we call player controlled monkeys, "Intelligent."
I bet you're also the kind of person that dies whenever someone says 'dark side' of the moon, rather than, 'far side' of the moon.
It's not about terminology. It's about ludonarrative dissonance.
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
All monkeys we start with are lobotomized, as are the ones they dehydrate and cram into cubes.
They aren't "monkeys" at all, in fact. They are
They aren't "monkeys" at all, in fact. They are
Spoiler:
- paprika
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Real monkeys wouldn't let you pull them around and shit like the genetics or virology monkeys (monkey cubes) do, they would be screaming and jumping around and throwing their shit at you unless they were doped up. I believe the assumption is that monkey cube monkeys aren't real monkeys, or they're braindead, because when you turn them into humans in generics they act braindead, except this doesn't happen when you turn a regular human into a monkey.
So I really don't see any problem with people saying SENTIENT MONKEY or whatever, I would freak out too if the previously passive monkeys for experiments started scrambling into vents and shit. I would shit my pants, monkeys are scary.
So I really don't see any problem with people saying SENTIENT MONKEY or whatever, I would freak out too if the previously passive monkeys for experiments started scrambling into vents and shit. I would shit my pants, monkeys are scary.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.
- Redblaze3000
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
I want this to happen. It would be funny as fuck. Like poly but ten times more annoying.Violaceus wrote:Best way would be making nonplayer monkeys behave "like" monkeys...
Like running from people, breaking random shit, throwing barman's beers all around, making a nest and stealing shiny shit/food through vents...
- Jacquerel
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
I too would love monkeys with animal behaviours, but they would then be far too raucous to easily use as test animals, so that's clearly not going to happen.
(Unless genetics and virology are then equipped with a button that floods sleep toxin in the animal pen)
(Unless genetics and virology are then equipped with a button that floods sleep toxin in the animal pen)
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
this is a really specific and silly thing to get upset about
monkies are obviously in a constant state of braindeadness
they're not lobotomized, they're just lacking an active soul, just like normal braindeadness
which explains why, when a player enters a monkey body, they can behave normally
monkies are obviously in a constant state of braindeadness
they're not lobotomized, they're just lacking an active soul, just like normal braindeadness
which explains why, when a player enters a monkey body, they can behave normally
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts
dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.
Connor wrote:miggles is correct though
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
It'd be nice if catatonic crew members behaved like monkeys, slowly wandering around and drooling occasionally.
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
its in no way the same thingCheridan wrote:...That's just a synonym!! It's the exact same thing. It still doesn't make any sense because it doesn't explain any of the behaviors I mentioned.
as long as its catatonics only and not braindeads I would love to see a catatonic crew member slowly throw themselves out the escape airlockCheimon wrote:It'd be nice if catatonic crew members behaved like monkeys, slowly wandering around and drooling occasionally.
- Jacquerel
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Sapient isn't a synonym of Sentient.
Sentient means, as you said, "able to feel".
Sapient means "Intelligent", "Possessing of Wisdom", or "Human". Those things (or at least, the first and last) are literally what people are using the term "Sentient Monkeys" to express.
This is all irrelevant though because no fluff explanation as to why a sapient monkey is unusual will really work, because there's no way a lobotomised monkey should spontaneously be able to stop being so, and yet they still will.
If you must explain it away to yourself, imagine they're usually sedated.
Sentient means, as you said, "able to feel".
Sapient means "Intelligent", "Possessing of Wisdom", or "Human". Those things (or at least, the first and last) are literally what people are using the term "Sentient Monkeys" to express.
This is all irrelevant though because no fluff explanation as to why a sapient monkey is unusual will really work, because there's no way a lobotomised monkey should spontaneously be able to stop being so, and yet they still will.
If you must explain it away to yourself, imagine they're usually sedated.
- Wyzack
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
I like how once every few months we get a guy who goes around and necros a bunch of old threads
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
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Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
We have that thing to generate npc crewmen, that do random crew shit, why not the same for monkeys and other simple animals?
It would be neat.
It would be neat.
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
it is great to come back to a converstation after a while get a fresh perspectiveWyzack wrote:I like how once every few months we get a guy who goes around and necros a bunch of old threads
- Jacquerel
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Man I wish I'd noticed thatWyzack wrote:I like how once every few months we get a guy who goes around and necros a bunch of old threads
- Steelpoint
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- ThanatosRa
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Just say they mutants or "higher reasoning" or something.
my forum gimmick is that no one knows who i am
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- Wyzack
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Not hating, I agree that there is nothing wrong with bringing up old topics to discuss them more, I just find it interesting
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
certified good poster
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
certified good poster
- Steelpoint
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Just treat Sentient Monkeys how they were treated in System Shock 2.
Amusing, confusing and concerning. Until they rise up with their mental powers and start throwing giant Ice and Fire balls at you.
Then shoot them.
Amusing, confusing and concerning. Until they rise up with their mental powers and start throwing giant Ice and Fire balls at you.
Then shoot them.
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
monkeys with fireball would be pretty cool.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
We need a monkey SNPC
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There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
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- Cheridan
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:04 am
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
lol nice necro
The problem is that's not the terminology that people use in game to reference them which is the whole point
and then sometimes they're animated by human souls (why?) and then when people see this they generally murder them (why?)
good job on your coherent SCIENCE FICTION setting, worldbuilder!!
Yes, sedation is a reasonable explanation for both the inactivity of monkeys and the player response to player-controlled monkeys: "Hey, that monkey isn't sedated. Better catch him and send him back to genetics!" This is a good solution.Jacquerel wrote: If you must explain it away to yourself, imagine they're usually sedated.
The problem is that's not the terminology that people use in game to reference them which is the whole point
So your fluff for monkeys is that they're inactive because they don't have souls (why?)miggles wrote:this is a really specific and silly thing to get upset about
monkies are obviously in a constant state of braindeadness
they're not lobotomized, they're just lacking an active soul, just like normal braindeadness
which explains why, when a player enters a monkey body, they can behave normally
and then sometimes they're animated by human souls (why?) and then when people see this they generally murder them (why?)
good job on your coherent SCIENCE FICTION setting, worldbuilder!!
- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Everyone knows souls are made of nanobots IDIOT.
Welcome to the CYBER FUTURE.
Welcome to the CYBER FUTURE.
- ThanatosRa
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
I was really hoping this thread would just fade into obscurity(which I know I'm not helping by posting), but in for a penny, in for a pound I suppose.
my forum gimmick is that no one knows who i am
gender is irrelevant NO UR IRRELEVANT
u a bish
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- FantasticFwoosh
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
It should probably be put on a basis on whether they can speak clearly or not
- No speech (not a humanoid sapient, just a intelligent animal)
- Speech (Non-human, no better than a lizard)
Monkey attachable voice synthesizers and monkey (rolling pun-pun traitor) round-start roles when?
- No speech (not a humanoid sapient, just a intelligent animal)
- Speech (Non-human, no better than a lizard)
Monkey attachable voice synthesizers and monkey (rolling pun-pun traitor) round-start roles when?
Spoiler:
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Monkeys should be able to use a spell that summons a wad of shit to their hand to toss at people randomly.
- Falamazeer
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
You necro'd a necro'd thread.
Necro-ception.
Necro-ception.
Ham Sammich, beating a dead horse since 2010.
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- Bawhoppennn
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
oh yea I was going to reply to this
cheridan doesn't know what sentient means clearly
cheridan doesn't know what sentient means clearly
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
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[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
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[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
just wanna interject here he got his account super hardcore deleted, damn sondeathhoof wrote:So monkey cubes make lobodimized monkies? That doesnt make much sense to me.
- Cheridan
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
too bad baw, i'm head of lore now and everyone has to refer to non-player monkeys as "sedated" or "lobotomized" or else they're non-canon
non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream
non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream
- Aloraydrel
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Sorry but the three head lore masters do not approve of thisCheridan wrote:too bad baw, i'm head of lore now and everyone has to refer to non-player monkeys as "sedated" or "lobotomized" or else they're non-canon
non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream
- Shaps-cloud
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Sorry you're still only a lore assistant, you have to work your way upCheridan wrote:too bad baw, i'm head of lore now and everyone has to refer to non-player monkeys as "sedated" or "lobotomized" or else they're non-canon
non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream
- Cheridan
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
it'd really suck if some not canon people came into this thread and started naysaying me. well thankfully they don't exist in this multiverse so nobody has done that yet
- Shaps-cloud
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
You're in your own lore sandbox to prevent you from messing up the real time lines sorry
- Ricotez
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
On a meta level it works, because NPC monkeys run on a very simple AI and aren't sentient to any stretch of the definition until a player gets control of one.
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.
Spoiler:
- Cheridan
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
Oh, I guess there isn't a problem then, since we're a meta server and not an RP server. As long as things work on a meta level we're good!
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Re: "Sentient" Monkeys
>thinking you guys even have any idea about lore
lmao yea right
lmao yea right
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
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