[MRP] Dynamic ruleset

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carshalash
 
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[MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby carshalash » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:18 am #586565

Nobody wanted this system to be implemented in the first place onto manuel outside of one of the headmins thinking it would be funny.

Can things please just go back to normal now.



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wesoda25
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby wesoda25 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:25 am #586571

Such brazen hyperbole
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby dragomagol » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:07 am #586576

Dynamic is good for keeping things going but it has been very... eager to push out antagonists alongside the midrounds, which is usually how you get those "pirates followed by dragon followed by ninja" rounds. They're two different systems working at the same time.
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby cybersaber101 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:56 am #586584

dragomagol wrote:Dynamic is good for keeping things going but it has been very... eager to push out antagonists alongside the midrounds, which is usually how you get those "pirates followed by dragon followed by ninja" rounds. They're two different systems working at the same time.


I second that this could be adjusted.
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby spookuni » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:30 am #586588

While I do agree that dynamic could use further tweaking towards a preference for more start of round full-antagonists and more backloading on its midrounds, even as it is now I prefer dynamic to secret in almost all circumstances, and have been arguing for more / full dynamic since before I became an admin.

Personally I can't wait for 100% dynamic all the time,

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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby NoxVS » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:41 am #586589

I still don’t think wizard is compatible with any other mode. Turns out summon ghosts sort of puts an end to a significant amount of things you can do as an antagonist.

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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby RaveRadbury » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:02 am #586593

If dynamic is going to be the future of things it needs more tweaks. Please tweak dynamic more. 40 minute rounds are so not cash money.
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby nianjiilical » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 am #586596

NoxVS wrote:I still don’t think wizard is compatible with any other mode. Turns out summon ghosts sort of puts an end to a significant amount of things you can do as an antagonist.


killing the wizard should disable summon ghosts

or just disable it on dynamic i guess
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby RaveRadbury » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 am #586598

nianjiilical wrote:just disable it on dynamic i guess

The idea is to go full dynamic and get rid of secret, so we either need to bounce the spell entirely or make it end when the wizard dies I guess? That shouldn't be too hard.
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NoxVS
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby NoxVS » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:56 am #586600

Pretty much the entire wizard kit fucks over any semblance of normal. Even if a wizard dies they can leave behind gamebreaking stuff like the ghost metacomms orb, or a staff that makes half the crew suddenly syndicate cyborgs or xenos

At what point do we just acknowledge how wizard is a shitty mode that’s fun for a single player and finally remove it instead of just slowly cutting out portions of it. Remove it from dynamic, go full dynamic, nothing of value is lost.

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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby Misdoubtful » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:58 am #586601

carshalash wrote:Nobody wanted this system to be implemented in the first place onto manuel outside of one of the headmins thinking it would be funny.

Can things please just go back to normal now.


This is kind of a very brash generalization of things, isn't it? If no one else wanted it, it really wouldn't have happened to begin with.

I'm still pretty stout on how I feel about what needs adjusting since the last time this came around: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=27507&p=576041&hilit=dynamic#p575736

Dynamics current threat generation curve is pretty terrible and it doesn't take much for it to lean towards an extreme. Those extremes mean plenty of mid-rounds since the cost of main rounders isn't particularly super high, but the costs and numbers are being tweaked and fleshed out. These extremes doesn't happen all the time though either, its just currently a lot more likely than it maybe should be.

Dynamic is improving, slowly.
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby Jaredfogle » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:01 am #586616

NoxVS wrote:At what point do we just acknowledge how wizard is a shitty mode that’s fun for a single player and finally remove it instead of just slowly cutting out portions of it. Remove it from dynamic, go full dynamic, nothing of value is lost.


probably every single maintainer has been saying this for years, we can't kill it because of the config though. make a policy discussion thread or whwatever
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby NikoTheGuyDude » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:01 pm #586650

Jaredfogle wrote:
NoxVS wrote:At what point do we just acknowledge how wizard is a shitty mode that’s fun for a single player and finally remove it instead of just slowly cutting out portions of it. Remove it from dynamic, go full dynamic, nothing of value is lost.


probably every single maintainer has been saying this for years, we can't kill it because of the config though. make a policy discussion thread or whwatever


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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby Jolly66 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:11 pm #586687

The one crippling issue with dynamic that many have already pointed out is wizard, mostly if they choose to make ghosts visible. Obviously this ruins a lot of antags (jaunting hereticts, stealth traitors, so on and so forth). The other issue is the short rounds - I mean, okay. Some enjoy a short, less then an hour round. Other enjoy an hour to hour and a half round (assuming its med~high pop time). We're MRP, shouldn't it be expect that our rounds are a little longer then the other servers? Obviously dynamic will need some sort of rework, be it through policy or code to make it a little more bearable on Manuel. Some of the insanely high threat rounds have been entertaining to watch and sometimes be apart of. Also please no 100% dynamic please God no.
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby EOBGames » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:48 pm #586814

Honestly, dynamic on Manuel has been a breath of fresh air to me. I was starting to find myself fed up with the stagnating rounds beforehand (Which was a fair part of me stopping playing very often, for the guy who will inevitably look at scrubby to say that my recent playtime is low), and it's helped with that issue quite a bit.

Not gonna disagree that it needs tweaks, but to throw it out entirely would be a mistake, imo. (Also 100% dynamic good, once the kinks are sorted out we should really aim for it)
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby mrmelbert » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:11 pm #586841

I'm mostly okay with dynamic on Manuel but i'll throw in the complaints I do have here.

The good:

- Wizard can't buy summon events.
- It has created cool rounds. Both rounds I have played in and observed have been more interesting and... dynamic.

The bad:

- 2 changelings is 40 threat, while 8 traitors is 20 threat. Ninjas (which spawn in a second midround antag), Spiders (which is a guaranteed shuttle call if they're not found fast enough), and Space Dragons (which are a meme) are all 10 threat. The threat scaling is awful holy shit.
- Midrounds can start spawning at 15 minutes. Why. Ninja spawn in at the 17 minute mark, rushes to a command console and now you have Ninja + Swarmers/Pirates 20 minutes into the round. Not even mentioning the pocket maxcap they have or the other amount of disruption they can cause.
- Malf AI midround ruleset is like 35 threat when it can ALSO roll as a normal traitor for 10 threat. Whyyyyyy.
- Random spawned midrounds can still happen. You can get dynamic blob spawn and random event blob spawn within 5 minutes of each other... and other atrocities.
- Admins can't stop dynamic ruleset executions if they think it's gonna be bullshit. (Unless i'm dumb.)

The ugly:

- People end up get BTFO'd for meta-ing the gamemodes more. I find this hilarious.
- Any semblance of roleplay and reason goes out of the round the moment the captain reads out "Uncharted Space", "Black Orbit", or god forbid "Impending Doom" (Though I will admit I don't try to help the crew remain calm in those situations myself).

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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby cacogen » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:13 pm #586919

People should be able to make config PRs it always seems to be misinformed
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby NikoTheGuyDude » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:11 pm #587013

The more I play, the more I think the values, really, REALLY need to be tweaked. Its not uncommon to have hell rounds with like 1 spiders, 1 blob, 8 traitors, and a ninja. And this is on like, contested space.

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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby Jaredfogle » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:26 pm #587015

Someone told me a while ago and I've started to agree that dynamic should be adjusted to where, instead of dumping all that it can into round start antags, instead starts with a few amount, and puts more points into midround traitor conversions and such.

I got clearance to get numbers from Lepi and just, haven't bothered yet.
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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby Samuel Hayden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:07 pm #587233

Another thing that I think would help dynamic out, besides working on the values of each antag, is how those "purchases" the gamemode does are applied.

Instead of "buying x antags at the 15 min mark", these purchases should be spread out. The feeling that I have on dynamic is that either everything is chaos from the start, or it's 15 - 20 minutes of pure nothing, then EVERYTHING comes at once.

Maybe this doesn't have to be applied to every antag, but it'd be nice to have a change to the gamemode that says "We can't buy blob, dragon and ninja at once. Space these purchases out 5-10 minutes".

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Re: [MRP] Dynamic ruleset

Postby NecromancerAnne » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:07 pm #587463

RaveRadbury wrote:If dynamic is going to be the future of things it needs more tweaks. Please tweak dynamic more. 40 minute rounds are so not cash money.


I'm of the opinion we need short rounds sometimes. Not 'the round is over minutes into it by all antags self destructing and concluding everything already' which is a thing I usually see on LRP, but something with higher pace allowed by the inclusion of more destructive antagonists.


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