/tg/Station 13

by **pubby** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:42 pm #393694

Hi friends. Can we have blood brother mode* (TRAITORBRO) enabled in the config? Whatever percent added can be taken off traitorchan. I recommend 5%.

And if it's set, please increase BROTHER_SCALING_COEFF to something like 20 Keeping it at 6 results in way too many antagonists.

[*] Blood brothers are small antag teams that must work together to complete their objectives. The mode includes regular traitors as well.

by **BeeSting12** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:53 pm #393698

Take it off of wizard or conversion modes because I don't like wizard and conversion happens too often.

by **Shaps-cloud** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:28 pm #393705

I know most people think of neat RP interactions and master plans but whenever I think of groups of solo antags I just think of roaming deathsquads ebow eswording everyone and constantly recalling the shuttle

by **Qbopper** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:54 pm #393717

Shaps-cloud wrote:I know most people think of neat RP interactions and master plans but whenever I think of groups of solo antags I just think of roaming deathsquads ebow eswording everyone and constantly recalling the shuttle

by **pubby** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:38 pm #393728

They are the weakest antag in existence. They don't get any special powers. They don't get any special items. They don't have protection or knowledge about the dozen of other traitors that spawn in the round. All they have is a single buddy; that's it. Do you really think that makes them more likely to take over the station than rev, cult, changeling, and even regular traitors?

Anyway, I don't really want to argue about if the game mode is good/worth keeping yet. Such opinions will become obvious if it's enabled. Anything else is speculation.

by **kevinz000** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:41 pm #393729

Bad mode, having a human buddy is one of the strongest things.

by **BeeSting12** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 pm #393744

kevinz000 wrote:Bad mode, having a human buddy is one of the strongest things.

I guess that makes revs or cult the strongest mode: dozens of human buddies plus cool loot!

by **Nabski** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:32 pm #393746

Trained from birth, only these two brothers know how to piggyback without using their hands. Some much shed training this skill, tears, sweat, blood.

by **EagleWiz** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:36 pm #393747

Shaps-cloud wrote:I know most people think of neat RP interactions and master plans but whenever I think of groups of solo antags I just think of roaming deathsquads ebow eswording everyone and constantly recalling the shuttle

They don't even have traitor gear though. And pretty much every single other antag in the game can have a team. Lings have ling teamchat, wizards can get apprentices, nuke ops are a 4 person team with extra deadly traitor gear, the conversion antags convert, the blob can make blobernauts, etc. I suspect most of the opposition to this has less to do with how op traitors who have no gear teaming up is and more people who take their greentext too seriously and get really salty when their teammates death denies it.

by **Ayy Lemoh** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:47 pm #393749

I set it to blood brothers once.

Pretty much everyone was antag. It wasn't fun. I despise the gamemode now.

My suggestion is we fix up IAA if we really want to add one of the unused gamemodes, to be honest.

by **EagleWiz** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:03 pm #393801

Ayy Lemoh wrote:I set it to blood brothers once.

Pretty much everyone was antag. It wasn't fun. I despise the gamemode now.

That seems like a thing that could be easily fixed by reducing the number of antags it spawns.

by **pubby** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:46 pm #393958

Yes that's why BROTHER_SCALING_COEFF in the config should be set to be something higher. It was mistakingly set to a low value when the mode was merged.

The equation is: number of brother teams =number of players / BROTHER_SCALING_COEFF (with a minimum of 1 team)

So a value like 20, 30, or even 40 seems ideal to generate less teams.

by **Cobby** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:54 pm #393980

> coefficient

> whole numbers make it lower

um?

by **ShadowDimentio** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:07 am #394030

Shaps-cloud wrote:I know most people think of neat RP interactions and master plans but whenever I think of groups of solo antags I just think of roaming deathsquads ebow eswording everyone and constantly recalling the shuttle

I frequently have ling PTSD episodes

(Especially because they're still happening)

by **Shadowflame909** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:59 am #394088

When you're learning toxins and atmos to i m p r o v e the station. Yes, this seems like a wonderful idea! TEN STARS.

by **EagleWiz** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:17 am #394089

We already have items designed so that traitors can work together (and one that only works if you are teamed up with another traitor/stole his TC), and its cheap enough you can buy that item, buy an ebow, and buy no-slips.
We have a devil who can give people minion player characters in exchange for their souls.
We have an antag who can get back up after it dies, can mute people by bumping into them, can grow an armblade, can get temporary stun immunity, and can chat with all 3-5 others like him.
Is anyone seriously trying to argue that this game mode is OP?
Obviously the scaling is all wrong, but this is a trivial fix to a mode that looks a lot more fun and balanced then several we have.
I suppose we would have to reduce some other modes frequency. I suggust traitor-chan. I understand how people might be worried that some people would team up in this mode and just run around murderboning, but it would have to be really damn awful to be worse then what happens when there are robust lings.

by **cedarbridge** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:43 pm #394754

So this is just traitors except there's more of them and they're in pairs. Swell.

by **Nilons** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:19 am #394911

cedarbridge wrote:So this is just traitors except there's more of them and they're in pairs. Swell.

Nope, its traitors but instead of TCs you get a babysitting job

by **cedarbridge** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:36 pm #395011

Nilons wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:So this is just traitors except there's more of them and they're in pairs. Swell.

Nope, its traitors but instead of TCs you get a babysitting job

Honestly, I always loved escort missions where the escort target just walks out an airlock.
Or escort missions in general, really.

by **Shadowflame909** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:37 am #395285

So, I see no one knows what this mode is about.
.It's traitors, think of regular traitors. Got it? Alright, now imagine that all the traitors suddenly lost all their telecrystals.
In exchange for that, they each instantly know who another traitor is. Also, both of those traitors who know who each other are, get the same objectives.
So you effectively have regular traitors, but every two traitors in exchange for TC,
Get the same objectives, and know who each other are. I hope this makes things less confusing.
EDIT: Also, there aren't more of them. The mode just wasn't set up correctly. It's the same amount you'd get for regular traitors!

by **cedarbridge** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:38 am #395286

Shadowflame909 wrote:So, I see no one knows what this mode is about.
.It's traitors, think of regular traitors. Got it? Alright, now imagine that all the traitors suddenly lost all their telecrystals.
In exchange for that, they each instantly know who another traitor is. Also, both of those traitors who know who each other are, get the same objectives.
So you effectively have regular traitors, but every two traitors in exchange for TC,
Get the same objectives, and know who each other are. I hope this makes things less confusing.

Its not confusing. Its just not interesting.

by **Shadowflame909** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:49 am #395288

What's not interesting about two traitors who have to rely on their jobs to complete their traitor objectives? Do you not want to see a cargo technician and a scientist work together? You know that every blood brothers round would be different. It relies on creativity.

by **cedarbridge** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:52 am #395297

I'm all for making antags depend on their department (and directly nerfing assistant antag in the process) but I don't see replacing the TC with a second antag as being the solution. DA was already a problem even if you removed the TC from the equation.

by **iamgoofball** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 am #395302

>when people get mad over teamwork being OP

by **Shadowflame909** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:10 am #395307

This isn't a solution to anything, It's just another game mode! It's not like anything's getting nerfed. It's adding something else. Also what is DA?

by **DemonFiren** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:16 am #395325

Shadowflame909 wrote:Also what is DA?

DeviantArt.
A mode where the player with the most cringy paintings wins.

by **BeeSting12** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:54 am #395350

Shadowflame909 wrote:This isn't a solution to anything, It's just another game mode! It's not like anything's getting nerfed. It's adding something else. Also what is DA?

Double agents. There was always a fuckton of traitors and each one had another traitor as a target.

ie

Edward Sloan kills Owen Kimples who kills Kor Phaeron who kills Edward Sloan

by **PKPenguin321** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:35 pm #395506

But that's completely different from what OP is proposing so why are we bringing it up

by **Shadowflame909** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:11 am #395637

Ok, so the problem once again becomes too many traitors? Or is it "oh fuck traitor with tc also has to kill other tators with a tc." Yeah, I think blood brothers is immune to all the faults of DA? Rebuttal 100: Blood Brothers is a really good mode, don't deny it.

by **EagleWiz** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:37 pm #395766

Shadowflame909 wrote:Ok, so the problem once again becomes too many traitors? Or is it "oh fuck traitor with tc also has to kill other tators with a tc." Yeah, I think blood brothers is immune to all the faults of DA? Rebuttal 100: Blood Brothers is a really good mode, don't deny it.

the problem becomes: teamwork? With another human being? And if they are bad at ss13 it might make some words in a video game turn red instead of green? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

by **Shadowflame909** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:55 am #396253

EagleWiz wrote:
Shadowflame909 wrote:Ok, so the problem once again becomes too many traitors? Or is it "oh fuck traitor with tc also has to kill other tators with a tc." Yeah, I think blood brothers is immune to all the faults of DA? Rebuttal 100: Blood Brothers is a really good mode, don't deny it.

the problem becomes: teamwork? With another human being? And if they are bad at ss13 it might make some words in a video game turn red instead of green? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

So what your saying is, blood brothers encourages all the things the coders have been wanting with there nerfs? Inter-departmental co-operation. A roleplaying experience by teaching someone else some new strategies via departmental team-ups, and the everlasting bonds of successfully doing a co-op mission with a partner? S C R A P I T.

by **Oldman Robustin** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:32 pm #401080

I also tried to develop traitor partners last year but traitor code was such spaghetti with so many snowflake checks and procs where you had to visit 4 files just to figure out what they did that I gave up because testing was extremely difficult.

I do think we need to experiment with this more and enabling these guys would be a start, I dunno why the creator gave them their own mode and not just make them a traitor subtype (probably because of aforementioned traitor code).

Also, did the tests for the infiltrator mode go badly or what? I haven't heard a peep about that after a couple initial tests.

by **Dr_bee** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:38 pm #401083

Oldman Robustin wrote:I also tried to develop traitor partners last year but traitor code was such spaghetti with so many snowflake checks and procs where you had to visit 4 files just to figure out what they did that I gave up because testing was extremely difficult.

I do think we need to experiment with this more and enabling these guys would be a start, I dunno why the creator gave them their own mode and not just make them a traitor subtype (probably because of aforementioned traitor code).

Also, did the tests for the infiltrator mode go badly or what? I haven't heard a peep about that after a couple initial tests.

The one test I was involved in was fun, but the shuttle bugged out and we couldnt exfiltrate.

It was a fun, stealthy version of operatives.

by **pubby** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:00 pm #401219

BROTHER_SCALING_COEFF still needs increasing regardless of whether or not the mode is enabled.

Is it not getting enabled?

by **oranges** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:20 am #401640

nobody gives a shit

by **PKPenguin321** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:48 am #401659

oranges wrote:nobody gives a shit

Rude and abrasive

by **Dax Dupont** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:32 am #401673

So the only issue people have with this mode is that there were too many antag which the other option fixes? I'd think at least trialing bloodbrothers with the right option set might be nice.

by **Karp** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:46 am #401681

PKPenguin321 wrote:
oranges wrote:nobody gives a shit

Rude and abrasive

he's right though

by **pubby** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:40 am #401935

I don't think changing a line of text is too much hassle, especially considering the amount of babying that went into both cults and gang. If the headmins aren't interested then I would appreciate a response from them.

oranges wrote:nobody gives a shit

I do not like you, or respect you, either.

by **Shadowflame909** » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:22 am #402091

Dax Dupont wrote:So the only issue people have with this mode is that there were too many antag which the other option fixes? I'd think at least trialing bloodbrothers with the right option set might be nice.

This, "too many antags" was literally a goofy mistake that's easily corrected. How come this mode isnt in rotation? Reeeee

by **oranges** » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:21 am #402137

pubby wrote:I don't think changing a line of text is too much hassle, especially considering the amount of babying that went into both cults and gang. If the headmins aren't interested then I would appreciate a response from them.

oranges wrote:nobody gives a shit

I do not like you, or respect you, either.

I don't think about you at all, just answering your question

by **Shadowflame909** » Sat May 05, 2018 5:15 pm #407300

Where is muh blood brothers.

by **Doctor Pork** » Sat May 05, 2018 7:20 pm #407341

Shadowflame909 wrote:Where is muh blood brothers.

Just ask to TC trade for it next time.

by **Shadowflame909** » Sun May 06, 2018 3:59 am #407460

I want it to be a full on mode, not a teecee trade. Mainly because, if I trade 20 tc to have "harold robinson" as my blood brother. All of my effort can go down the drain by the dual e-sword or sleeping carp chumbis. It'd really suck to have your non-antag item gimmick be destroyed by an antag with the weapons to instantly OHKO you. I'd prefer it if everyone were in one boat, or the other. Not in multiple different boats!

by **The Clowns Pocket** » Sun May 06, 2018 8:08 am #407505

I mean it sounds pretty sweet, I remember valentines mode (closest thing I have played to blood brothers) being pretty sweet when the other person isn't just fucking off to do their own thing.

If having "Another guy" unbalances the antag, take away their telecrystals. Although personally I like the idea of the two having a very small pool that they have to share. Maybe to the point where you can only really afford one item. No boxes. Just one thing.

by **Dax Dupont** » Sun May 06, 2018 8:57 am #407521

I don't think they get tc at all as far as I've seen

by **Doctor Pork** » Sun May 06, 2018 3:46 pm #407563

I'm gonna run what you're proposing and see how it goes.

by **Shadowflame909** » Sun May 06, 2018 6:05 pm #407593

Yeah, that's the gimmick of the mode. Blood Brothers is basically traitor but you remove there TC and give two pairs of traitors knowledge of each other and the same objectives. They work together to complete their objectives without TC. The only reason people feel goofy about it is because someone goof'd and made TOO MANY traitors, the only time this mode was enabled. Which was dumb. You have the regular amount of tater tots on normal traitor! You just, make two pairs of all the normal traitor's teammates, without TC and the same objective!

by **Rustledjimm** » Sun May 06, 2018 6:34 pm #407601

Could've sworn I added them to bagil with a small % to happen. Must've misspelled the line. I want to try out blood brothers for a while, the coefficient is 20 players per team of brothers.

by **Doctor Pork** » Mon May 07, 2018 4:02 am #407781

Ran it earlier today 3 teams on a 40 pop round. Went okay, one team worked together a bit (the ones with assassin objectives) but the other two immediately split up and went to do their own things. I noticed for a round having essentially 6 traitors that that only about 3 people got murdered which was definitely something I havent seen in awhile and the assassins were a lot more careful in trying to take out their target. Definitely saw a lot more stealth which was nice.

I think it could be a nice change of pace to enable it as a gamemode, even if some pairings don't work together there is definitely potential for some interesting scenarios given the push for creativity since no TC. I would suggest having it be like 1 pairing to every 15 players just because some teams might turn out to be duds, but 20 might be better too since it really depends who is a BB and how good they are at teamwork.

I'd say put them at the same percentage as like wiz. Although it might be cool to have a hybrid gametype like Traitorchan. If you had two regular traitors and 2 pair of blood brothers thats a full traitor round and only 40TC on station, but who knows. Either way I'd call BB a cool gamemode.

SPECIAL REQUEST: someone please change the icon in the admin hud for blood brothers to something other than the valentines day heart, frankly its silly