Why were moodlets turned off?

[oranges]

Bottom post of the previous page:

No public discussion, no poll, nothing?

I enjoy this feature a lot and I think it adds a lot to the round. People who don't like can take the trait that minimises it's impact.

Please turn it back on or at least attempt to be transparent with changes you're making

[captain sawrge]

Area beauty was the buff the janitors needed, please don't remove it.

Flavor/fluff oriented jobs do not need "buffs" or balancing.

[Qustinnus]

Area beauty was the buff the janitors needed, please don't remove it.

That was my intention, I hoped to do it to more service jobs because servicing is essentialy what is supposed to keep mood/morale up.

[Qustinnus]

Area beauty was the buff the janitors needed, please don't remove it.

Flavor/fluff oriented jobs do not need "buffs" or balancing.

It's a buff in the sense of, it's a more interesting job with some actual mechanics besides getting different grief tools. Do you have any actual reasoning as to why those jobs should not have new interaction with the game or is it just purely "they shouldnt have new gameplay"

[onleavedontatme]

things

You mentioned area beauty, that might be it. People on basil dealing with 90 person rounds are going to be dealing with a signicantly larger mess than people in low-medium sybil rounds.

Area beauty was an experiment, and I wanted to expand on it while lessening the effect of things being dirty. But people dislike it too much and I'm sick of it being used as an argument against all of mood so I'll probably just remove it. Because half of the problems with mood could just be fixed if people came up to me and asked without being assholes about it.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... &start=200

There are two hundred posts of feedback in that thread and you responded to much of mine by calling me a liar or sabateour or bringing up lavaland or whatever.

I cant fault people for wanting a break from the game but complaining I am killing moodlets with the freeze, getting an exception to work on it during the freeze, then vanishing without saying anything only to come back after a month of no changes to say nobody was willing to work with you because it was finally turned off is aggravating.

stuff

Burning it down would have been reverting it.

>more feedback given in good faith

Fuck off with that. Not liking a feature does not mean I am posting in bad faith

[onleavedontatme]

In a game that may or may not have any of some 50 job slots filled by a population of 5-90 players not every job needs a critical gameplay function.

[captain sawrge]

The game has been designed for around a decade without any consideration for moodlets or the mechanics surrounding them. Suddenly trying to incorporate aspects of the game that have historically never had any gameplay significance (cleanliness being the most glaring example) strikes me as trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I don't personally think it's going to be a very engaging or interesting feature unless several of the mechanics that influence it can also be rebalanced around moods. Otherwise what you get is something half-baked and stuck in a limbo where it would not be balanced if it had meaningful impact and would end up mostly frustrating, or it is rarely more than a minor annoyance.

As it stands now sometimes I just get too hungry and my character suddenly gets really upset and sees static and it breaks my immersion and makes me frustrated with the system.

[captain sawrge]

Area beauty was the buff the janitors needed, please don't remove it.

Flavor/fluff oriented jobs do not need "buffs" or balancing.

It's a buff in the sense of, it's a more interesting job with some actual mechanics besides getting different grief tools. Do you have any actual reasoning as to why those jobs should not have new interaction with the game or is it just purely "they shouldnt have new gameplay"

See above post: the underlying mechanics concerned with the job have historically never been designed with any major gameplay implications in mind and now without reworking these mechanics with such considerations they are suddenly significantly more important to the round flow.

Not every job needs to have an important role because the nature of the game means jobs will not always be done. It's naive to think making jobs more important will make people want to do them; without any sort of properly engaging gameplay or mechanics in a job's gameplay people won't care and what happens is you end up with people continuing to abandon boring jobs, but now this action has a greater impact on the round and things start to fall apart far sooner.

[onleavedontatme]

Also I wonder if having a permanent mood event that slowly equalizes its value to the room you are in would make it less jarring than swinging from elated to suicidal to back again as you pass through the hallway.

Still not sure its a good idea at all though, I personally enjoy it when everything looks like garbage, its the sign of a fun ss13 round to me.

[ohnopigeons]

Flavor/fluff oriented jobs do not need "buffs" or balancing.

The buff is turning them from being a a flavor/fluff job into a hard gameplay job with the addition of area beauty. Case in point: people suddenly care about janitors and their cleaning abilities. Although personally I think enough cleaning abilities exist in the game already and players simply need time to learn to pick up and throw away trash or at least shove it in a locker.

The game has been designed for around a decade without any consideration for moodlets or the mechanics surrounding them. Suddenly trying to incorporate aspects of the game that have historically never had any gameplay significance (cleanliness being the most glaring example) strikes me as trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I don't personally think it's going to be a very engaging or interesting feature unless several of the mechanics that influence it can also be rebalanced around moods. Otherwise what you get is something half-baked and stuck in a limbo where it would not be balanced if it had meaningful impact and would end up mostly frustrating, or it is rarely more than a minor annoyance.

As it stands now sometimes I just get too hungry and my character suddenly gets really upset and sees static and it breaks my immersion and makes me frustrated with the system.

History is history sure but that doesn't mean you never change it. I think this change is a good one. In contrast with every other role, janitors always lacked the gameplay significance and area beauty is a feature that was long overdue.

I agree that the static needs to be thrown out, and changed with something else like screen dimming instead. Apathy could also use a buff from a 0.8 multiplier to a 0.5 multiplier for people who just plain don't like the system and don't want to be part of the feature feedback.

[iamgoofball]

As it stands now sometimes I just get too hungry and my character suddenly gets really upset and sees static and it breaks my immersion and makes me frustrated with the system.

Then go eat. Come on. We put vending machines everywhere already.

[Qustinnus]

things

You mentioned area beauty, that might be it. People on basil dealing with 90 person rounds are going to be dealing with a signicantly larger mess than people in low-medium sybil rounds.

Area beauty was an experiment, and I wanted to expand on it while lessening the effect of things being dirty. But people dislike it too much and I'm sick of it being used as an argument against all of mood so I'll probably just remove it. Because half of the problems with mood could just be fixed if people came up to me and asked without being assholes about it.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... &start=200

There are two hundred posts of feedback in that thread and you responded to much of mine by calling me a liar or sabateour or bringing up lavaland or whatever.

I cant fault people for wanting a break from the game but complaining I am killing moodlets with the freeze, getting an exception to work on it during the freeze, then vanishing without saying anything only to come back after a month of no changes to say nobody was willing to work with you because it was finally turned off is aggravating.

I did not say noone was willing to work with me, the feedback thread was usually fine. I'm talking about the daily pingstorm I had, which is the reason I vanished, besides the fact that I'm a student so I have times where I just can't code/play like this entire month. Sorry if I came across as hostile, but I think you and oranges were usually the ones argueing, and I don't think Lavaland was even brought up in the thread. We had a few exchanges in the thread but I don't think any of them were too hostile.

Also when did I say you tried killing moodlets with the freeze..? I remember talking to you about mood and how I had to wait to release new fixes, but I never claimed you were sabotaging mood by making a freeze. (Which would be a super convoluted way of trying to sabotage them anyways). Honestly the freeze might've bored me a bit but it didn't anger me or anything so if you got the idea I thought it was a sabotage attempt, that's definitely not what I saw it as.

Anyways, regarding the feedback thread, I actively check it and I was working on a branch to change the static effects around last week and I'm still working on it.

[Saegrimr]

There's a completely non-mechanic effect of dirty rooms anyway.
Greyshirts tend to act like complete monkeys when every inch of the hallway is covered in blood as it is, and hunger slowdown is already an issue people try to active avoid.

n contrast with every other role, janitors always lacked the gameplay significance

Librarian/Clown/Mime/Assistant/That weirdo scientist that sits on the Experimentor/Arguably botany since chef can make infinite cheese wheels to combat hunger slowdown

[Qustinnus]

Also I wonder if having a permanent mood event that slowly equalizes its value to the room you are in would make it less jarring than swinging from elated to suicidal to back again as you pass through the hallway.

Still not sure its a good idea at all though, I personally enjoy it when everything looks like garbage, its the sign of a fun ss13 round to me.

That's a good idea. I'll look into whether I should or shouldn't remove area beauty because you and sawrge brought up some good points, if I don't I'll use this idea though because it's really good.

[Mickyan]

Fuck off with that. Not liking a feature does not mean I am posting in bad faith

I did not mean to call you or anyone else out in particular. I just see a lot of "It sucks, remove it" comments from people that don't offer any solution or feedback and don't add anything to the discussion

You brought up some valid points and even if I don't entirely agree with some of them, we need more of that

[ohnopigeons]

There's a completely non-mechanic effect of dirty rooms anyway.
Greyshirts tend to act like complete monkeys when every inch of the hallway is covered in blood as it is, and hunger slowdown is already an issue people try to active avoid.

n contrast with every other role, janitors always lacked the gameplay significance

Librarian/Clown/Mime/Assistant/That weirdo scientist that sits on the Experimentor/Arguably botany since chef can make infinite cheese wheels to combat hunger slowdown

Librarian was turned into Curator and given whips.
Clowns heal from bananas and banana products and are giving significant, although not complete, leeway in griefing.
Mimes have invisible walls and heal from nothing/flavored foods and drinks.
Assistants are numerous so they hide in numbers and have a complete lack of responsibility so that they may do whatever they please. They are given maintenance access to screw around in.
All players may choose to sit idly and do nothing.
Botany can make death nettles and healweed, and now bees and vines and whatever overpowered end game products

Janitors just clean the station, and get griefed and yelled at for making floors wet. Some impact on gameplay from cleanliness is perfectly fine and logical.

[Qustinnus]

There's a completely non-mechanic effect of dirty rooms anyway.
Greyshirts tend to act like complete monkeys when every inch of the hallway is covered in blood as it is, and hunger slowdown is already an issue people try to active avoid.

n contrast with every other role, janitors always lacked the gameplay significance

Librarian/Clown/Mime/Assistant/That weirdo scientist that sits on the Experimentor/Arguably botany since chef can make infinite cheese wheels to combat hunger slowdown

Librarian was turned into Curator and given whips.
Clowns heal from bananas and banana products and are giving significant, although not complete, leeway in griefing.
Mimes have invisible walls and heal from nothing/flavored foods and drinks.
Assistants are numerous so they hide in numbers and have a complete lack of responsibility so that they may do whatever they please. They are given maintenance access to screw around in.
All players may choose to sit idly and do nothing.
Botany can make death nettles and healweed, and now bees and vines and whatever overpowered end game products

Janitors just clean the station, and get griefed and yelled at for making floors wet. Some impact on gameplay from cleanliness is perfectly fine and logical.

tbf janitor is essentialy assistant with extra greytide tools like bear traps.

[ohnopigeons]

The lack of responsibility makes all the difference. Janitor items are not secure so the closet can be easily raided for tools like bear traps and flywatters by anyone else, but especially assistants.

[ohnopigeons]

If people actually do like their stations dirty and bloody, traits like "Trash Lover or Trashkin" and "Blood Goth" should be respectively added that give a positive bonus to their moods.

[onleavedontatme]

And that is, of course, ignoring the elephant in the room that is the fact thata lot of people hate being told how their character is feeling and reacts to things. Its like if your DM said "You are so overcome by the majesty of the moment that you collapse to the ground and cry", dictating what you do instead of what situation you're in. Taking away player agency, however justified that might be in making people act less like violent robots, is always, always going to seriously piss off a large chunk of the playerbase in a roleplaying character-driven game.

I think this is a really important point that hasn't been addressed enough (probably because it can't be addressed). If I'm covered in blood as the HoS because I just killed three revs I feel like a hero and will tell the warden to fuck off when he tells me to go wash my edgy "trophy", if I'm covered in blood because I just killed someone as the traitor I'll feel paranoid until I make it to a shower. If the floor is covered in blood because I'm the Chaplain being silly that makes me happy, if its because the clown is dragging a monkey corpse I'll find it aggravating, and if I'm an officer seeing blood all over the hall because people have been getting killed I'll find it stressful. The system can't possibly accurately interpret the context of how the player, or their character, is supposed to be feeling in response to so many different situations in so many different contexts.

[onleavedontatme]

things

You mentioned area beauty, that might be it. People on basil dealing with 90 person rounds are going to be dealing with a signicantly larger mess than people in low-medium sybil rounds.

Area beauty was an experiment, and I wanted to expand on it while lessening the effect of things being dirty. But people dislike it too much and I'm sick of it being used as an argument against all of mood so I'll probably just remove it. Because half of the problems with mood could just be fixed if people came up to me and asked without being assholes about it.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... &start=200

There are two hundred posts of feedback in that thread and you responded to much of mine by calling me a liar or sabateour or bringing up lavaland or whatever.

I cant fault people for wanting a break from the game but complaining I am killing moodlets with the freeze, getting an exception to work on it during the freeze, then vanishing without saying anything only to come back after a month of no changes to say nobody was willing to work with you because it was finally turned off is aggravating.

I did not say noone was willing to work with me, the feedback thread was usually fine. I'm talking about the daily pingstorm I had, which is the reason I vanished, besides the fact that I'm a student so I have times where I just can't code/play like this entire month. Sorry if I came across as hostile, but I think you and oranges were usually the ones argueing, and I don't think Lavaland was even brought up in the thread. We had a few exchanges in the thread but I don't think any of them were too hostile.

Also when did I say you tried killing moodlets with the freeze..? I remember talking to you about mood and how I had to wait to release new fixes, but I never claimed you were sabotaging mood by making a freeze. (Which would be a super convoluted way of trying to sabotage them anyways). Honestly the freeze might've bored me a bit but it didn't anger me or anything so if you got the idea I thought it was a sabotage attempt, that's definitely not what I saw it as.

Anyways, regarding the feedback thread, I actively check it and I was working on a branch to change the static effects around last week and I'm still working on it.

I don't want to go through old conversations across who knows how many discord and IRC channels and 200 posts in that thread so if you think I misremembered or misattributed then I apologize for getting mad, was already not in a great mood before I woke up and saw people yelling about this being turned off.

[Qustinnus]

And that is, of course, ignoring the elephant in the room that is the fact thata lot of people hate being told how their character is feeling and reacts to things. Its like if your DM said "You are so overcome by the majesty of the moment that you collapse to the ground and cry", dictating what you do instead of what situation you're in. Taking away player agency, however justified that might be in making people act less like violent robots, is always, always going to seriously piss off a large chunk of the playerbase in a roleplaying character-driven game.

I think this is a really important point that hasn't been addressed enough (probably because it can't be addressed). If I'm covered in blood as the HoS because I just killed three revs I feel like a hero and will tell the warden to fuck off when he tells me to go wash my edgy "trophy", if I'm covered in blood because I just killed someone as the traitor I'll feel paranoid until I make it to a shower. If the floor is covered in blood because I'm the Chaplain being silly that makes me happy, if its because the clown is dragging a monkey corpse I'll find it aggravating, and if I'm an officer seeing blood all over the hall because people have been getting killed I'll find it stressful. The system can't possibly accurately interpret the context of how the player, or their character, is supposed to be feeling in response to so many different situations in so many different contexts.

I wanted to avoid giving my opinion too much but I've already pitfalled a bit so whatever :^). But honestly this is a thing thats different for each player, I think on HRP this would be a strong argument but on TG I never feel anything as my character. the roleplay isn't there for me so the game telling me how I feel is completely fine to me. Just the same as that someone using a flash on me suddenly makes me want to revolt, even if I think my character would never revolt, the game still makes me revolt when I get flashed.

I think it's really up to where you want to go with the server and its gameplay, but there's a lack of design direction which makes it ambigious to people like me what we can and can't add. TG right now is such a mix of cultures (all claiming to be true TG culture) and gameplay goals that half the time I don't even know what way is the right way.

anyways I'm tangenting but essentialy this problem is neither a big or non existent problem depending on what way you want the codebase to go in.

[ohnopigeons]

I think this is a really important point that hasn't been addressed enough (probably because it can't be addressed). If I'm covered in blood as the HoS because I just killed three revs I feel like a hero and will tell the warden to fuck off when he tells me to go wash my edgy "trophy", if I'm covered in blood because I just killed someone as the traitor I'll feel paranoid until I make it to a shower. If the floor is covered in blood because I'm the Chaplain being silly that makes me happy, if its because the clown is dragging a monkey corpse I'll find it aggravating, and if I'm an officer seeing blood all over the hall because people have been getting killed I'll find it stressful. The system can't possibly accurately interpret the context of how the player, or their character, is supposed to be feeling in response to so many different situations in so many different contexts.

Add innate job traits to security and medical that gives tolerance to the sight of blood. Add "Blood Goth" trait for cases like the Chaplain. Clown case is the default case. Add a stress mechanic that activates your flight-or-fight response (manually activated) that temporarily reduces all other moods except for a flat mood increase for two minutes, followed by a return to normal mood mechanics except for a mood malus for another two minutes (stress recovery). Include a chronic stress mechanic that accumulates negative mood if players don't wait long enough between activating fight-or-flight.

That's how you can cover a lot of contexts. If anyone can think of anymore edge cases I'd appreciate it so that I can factor them in.

If anyone couldn't tell I'm working on the stress/fight-or-flight mechanic right now.

[Mickyan]

Perhaps it would help if it was called morale rather than mood, you could be happy or sad but your character will still realize how dire the current situation is and it'll eventually take its toll on his sanity

I think this is a really important point that hasn't been addressed enough (probably because it can't be addressed). If I'm covered in blood as the HoS because I just killed three revs I feel like a hero and will tell the warden to fuck off when he tells me to go wash my edgy "trophy", if I'm covered in blood because I just killed someone as the traitor I'll feel paranoid until I make it to a shower. If the floor is covered in blood because I'm the Chaplain being silly that makes me happy, if its because the clown is dragging a monkey corpse I'll find it aggravating, and if I'm an officer seeing blood all over the hall because people have been getting killed I'll find it stressful. The system can't possibly accurately interpret the context of how the player, or their character, is supposed to be feeling in response to so many different situations in so many different contexts.

Can't account for all situations of course but some of these can be solved with traits that change what does and doesn't affect your character negatively. Some of these could be job dependent, so for example a security officer or a miner who's expected to have gone through training is guaranteed to have an adrenaline rush whenever he's hurt and not mind the sight of/being covered in blood. Chaplains are freaks so they probably wouldn't care either.

As for things like seeing the clown dragging a corpse around... if encouraging roleplay is the goal, it's not unreasonable to think a regular human being would find that at least a little bit disturbing

[Qustinnus]

Perhaps it would help if it was called morale rather than mood, you could be happy or sad but your character will still realize how dire the current situation is and it'll eventually take its toll on his sanity

That's essentially what it is now, your mood is short term and changing the word mood to morale would be a 5 second change but nothing would change mechanically

[onleavedontatme]

Other random thoughts:

Add some sort of opt out trait for this since its so divisive. People who opt out will obviously be at a mechanical advantage over people suffering from bad moodlets, but they won't be able to reap the benefits of increased speed bars etc from good moodlets either. This idea is obviously deranged but the issue seems very divisive to the point a system everyone enjoys seems unlikely in the short term.

Make the neutral face happier looking, or make it trend towards "slightly happy" instead of neutral. Just as a player psychology thing, the base state shouldn't look like failure.

[Qustinnus]

Other random thoughts:

Add some sort of opt out trait for this since its so divisive. People who opt out will obviously be at a mechanical advantage over people suffering from bad moodlets, but they won't be able to reap the benefits of increased speed bars etc from good moodlets either. This idea is obviously deranged but the issue seems very divisive to the point a system everyone enjoys seems unlikely in the short term.

Make the neutral face happier looking, or make it trend towards "slightly happy" instead of neutral. Just as a player psychology thing, the base state shouldn't look like failure.

the median is a failure!!

no jk sure that sounds fine but I'd have to find some sprites to work with that because i'm a bad artist myself. I can make an opt out trait but then I might make the buffs for mood a bit better.

[Nilons]

because it tries to make ss13 more like rimworld which is not fun

[Wyzack]

I think Kor/Dorsi's point is the best one. It sucks being told how your character feels in a roleplaying game. This to me is more bothersome than the static overlay.

[Mickyan]

Other random thoughts:

Add some sort of opt out trait for this since its so divisive. People who opt out will obviously be at a mechanical advantage over people suffering from bad moodlets, but they won't be able to reap the benefits of increased speed bars etc from good moodlets either. This idea is obviously deranged but the issue seems very divisive to the point a system everyone enjoys seems unlikely in the short term.

Make the neutral face happier looking, or make it trend towards "slightly happy" instead of neutral. Just as a player psychology thing, the base state shouldn't look like failure.

This seems reasonable provided the benefits of keeping it are balanced with its downsides

no jk sure that sounds fine but I'd have to find some sprites to work with that because i'm a bad artist myself. I can make an opt out trait but then I might make the buffs for mood a bit better.

How about this


Simple recolor of the neutral face, doesn't stand out as much as it did since it falls in line with the rest of the hud in a neutral state. Getting good/bad mood stands out more as a result, sometimes I would hardly notice because the neutral yellow color was so close to the others

[ohnopigeons]

Add some sort of opt out trait for this since its so divisive. People who opt out will obviously be at a mechanical advantage over people suffering from bad moodlets, but they won't be able to reap the benefits of increased speed bars etc from good moodlets either. This idea is obviously deranged but the issue seems very divisive to the point a system everyone enjoys seems unlikely in the short term.

This is what I thought the Apathetic trait was intended for. Just needed a tweak.

[cedarbridge]

Area beauty was the buff the janitors needed, please don't remove it.

Flavor/fluff oriented jobs do not need "buffs" or balancing.

Too late for that after the botany changes.

[PKPenguin321]

There is a strange trend with our players here where they're apparently incapable of simply ignoring things that bother them

[onleavedontatme]

There is a strange trend with our players here where they're apparently incapable of simply ignoring things that bother them

>Why don't you just ignore the thing that by design slows you down and gives you screenwide visual effects if you ignore it

This is the worst post in any moodlet discussion thus far congratulations

[The Clowns Pocket]

wow, a removal that's actually good

that's a tg station first!

[Luke Cox]

A. Eat some donk pockets and run by the dorm showers you fucking casuals

B. Am I missing something or do we still not know who disabled them?

[PKPenguin321]

There is a strange trend with our players here where they're apparently incapable of simply ignoring things that bother them

>Why don't you just ignore the thing that by design slows you down and gives you screenwide visual effects if you ignore it

This is the worst post in any moodlet discussion thus far congratulations

This is clearly not what I'm talking about. Half of your complaints have been about "the guy in the corner of the screen not looking happy," not the actual status effects.

[Nilons]

There is a strange trend with our players here where they're apparently incapable of simply ignoring things that bother them

>Why don't you just ignore the thing that by design slows you down and gives you screenwide visual effects if you ignore it

This is the worst post in any moodlet discussion thus far congratulations

This is clearly not what I'm talking about. Half of your complaints have been about "the guy in the corner of the screen not looking happy," not the actual status effects.

Ignoring the guy in the corner of the screen not being happy causes status effects though so it is entirely relevant

[Wyzack]

It wasn't clear at all also

[Lumbermancer]

Moodlets were good and should return probably even stronger in effect.

[Saegrimr]

What lumber said but only with the 3x3 mop and foam launcher. DO IT

[Qbopper]

Area beauty was the buff the janitors needed, please don't remove it.

Flavor/fluff oriented jobs do not need "buffs" or balancing.

janitor is not a fluff job

i wrote that as a half joke but seriously, the cleanliness of the station directly correlates to how fast other people will ruin things - if the station is covered in blood and glass and half the lights are broken the shuttle will be called and people will start beating eachother up over nothing

anyways the system worked fairly well on sybil, if it worked so poorly on bagil maybe the values need to be tweaked so you don't want to kill yourself because you saw blood in the halls? I dunno

[BeeSting12]

earlier kor was saying he doesnt like being told how his character feels and i agree with him. i mean come on is the HoS really gonna feel too bad about slicing and dicing a cultist that attacked him?

[LifeReign]

Your mood should be affected by your job. People expected to deal with surgery/combat/butchering shouldn't care as much about blood, while people who are expected to deal with maintaining the station should care a little more about dirty/damaged stations.

[The Clowns Pocket]

I am really impressed!

Normally, coders remove things for being too fun! But on this special occasion, they removed something really lame and useless!

We shoulden't be scoulding them! We should be congratulating them!

Thank you, glorious coders! Thank you for turning this off! I love you!

[PKPenguin321]

There is a strange trend with our players here where they're apparently incapable of simply ignoring things that bother them

>Why don't you just ignore the thing that by design slows you down and gives you screenwide visual effects if you ignore it

This is the worst post in any moodlet discussion thus far congratulations

This is clearly not what I'm talking about. Half of your complaints have been about "the guy in the corner of the screen not looking happy," not the actual status effects.

Ignoring the guy in the corner of the screen not being happy causes status effects though so it is entirely relevant

Literally i ignore it every time and once i see a bit of static i then eat a food. It has not once ever been an issue to the point where I'd say it negatively impacted my game. You can safely ignore the face until a status effect (harmless static) appears and nothing bad will come of it. It's no worse than having to eat due to hunger now and then. Kor was literally complaining that, even when not suffering from any status effects, that his guy looked too sad and it somehow bugged him enough to enjoy the game less. I think this is his own problem, and not a problem with moodlets.

[onleavedontatme]

It is a screen alert that by design is meant to be noticed and responded to. If something is rapidly flashing from blue to green to yellow to red on my screen and I'm not actually supposed to give it the attention it is trying very hard to grab, then that is a UI problem.

"Actually the system is good because its consequences are meaningless and if you realize the alerts don't matter the alert wont bother you" is such a bizarre way to praise moodlets.

[Qbopper]

earlier kor was saying he doesnt like being told how his character feels and i agree with him. i mean come on is the HoS really gonna feel too bad about slicing and dicing a cultist that attacked him?

it seems reasonable for a human being to be upset that they had to kill someone even if it was in self defense idk

[onleavedontatme]

We're not IRL humans though, we're pseudo immortal spessmen living in a setting where hitting someone in the head with a toolbox because they randomly pushed you over is customary

[Shadowflame909]

The problem with moodlets is that it tries to apply vague and undescriptive negatives and positives to EVERYONE. When in the many different situations on ss13, that feeling may not apply. So you're being punished for doing something unreasonable. Like feeling bad that your going hungry when your running away from an ash drake who's 3 seconds away from smiting your ass with his body.

[BeeSting12]

spessmen do not have feelings.

[Mickyan]

Worth nothing there's no actual negative moodlet for toolboxing someone and I don't think the plan was to actually have one

Maybe we can agree to stick to negative moodlets that would objectively aggravate anyone. Such as missing a leg, starving or embarrassingly slipping on a banana peel. The other more subjective moodlets can be relegated to negative and positive traits that can better shape your spessman's character, such as hemophobia causing you to be disturbed by blood or a psychopath trait that actually gives you a mood boost.

If you want to live as a space hobo you can still do that by taking the appropriate traits.

Like feeling bad that your going hungry when your running away from an ash drake who's 3 seconds away from smiting your ass with his body.

How is this an argument against moodlets when you'd be in the exact same situation with regular hunger slowdown

If anything the great thing about sanity slowdown is that it can (potentially, there's still plenty of positive moodlets missing that should be present but aren't in yet) be counteracted in more ways than just eating like with hunger slowdown. Be it drinking yourself stupid, injecting yourself with chems or just taking some time to do some positive activities.