Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

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Malkraz
 
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Malkraz » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:38 am #448488

I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds. Heroes don't always receive thanks.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Boris » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 am #448498

IC issue, antags can do what they want.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Karp » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 am #448501

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Ispiria wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:This is already bannable


Citation badly needed

cant find the ban anymore since it's really really old but it happened before
thought kor did the ban but i cant find it in his bans either so honestly i have no idea where the citation is, but i dont actually care enough about this to keep digging


ironically kor was the first player i really saw do suicide wizard on tg roundstart repeatedly

but punishing for this is the dumbest thing an admin can do

It literally doesn't harm anyone except the person who suicides
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby PKPenguin321 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:32 am #448518

yeah i think it's dumb to ban for too, just wanted to point out precedent although admittedly i didn't do a very good job of that
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:09 pm #448582

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Ispiria wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:This is already bannable


Citation badly needed

cant find the ban anymore since it's really really old but it happened before
thought kor did the ban but i cant find it in his bans either so honestly i have no idea where the citation is, but i dont actually care enough about this to keep digging

I can't really see kor banning anyone for this considering the fact I've watched him named himself "suicide" and then suicide as a wizard.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:10 pm #448583

Malkraz wrote:I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds. Heroes don't always receive thanks.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Cobby » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:31 pm #448646

NoxVS wrote:.


It’s an open source codebase if you don’t like the mode the duty is on you to

1) fix it to where you will play it
2) not play it/ optin to the role

Also being stealthy is not actively avoiding the conflict (although I’m sure there’s some people who just don’t do anything), and surely you realize traitor/changeling typically come in multiple AND the round doesn’t end when they’re all trash.

Trying to claim it’s my job to make sure you find the opt-in role enjoyable is dumb both as an admin as well as a player. Ending the round immediately is just shitty to the point where rule 1 should be enforced.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Cobby » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:33 pm #448648

Boris wrote:IC issue, antags can do what they want.


Ending the round immediately to troll players is about as ooc as it can get
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Suicidalpickles » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:39 pm #448662

i think ive suicided like six times or so by now as wiz, so I'd be due for six wizard bans if it were bannable

usually i do it when im like feeling stumped on a gimmick or something instead of just boredly murderboning through with fireball spam like any other wizard, just because i manage to roll it so many times you can only do so much

can also agree on summon magic/guns/events being utterly shit with their round delay

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Doritos » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:46 pm #448664

if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.
lol

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Nilons » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:46 pm #448681

Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.

okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby leibniz » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:10 pm #448686

Nilons wrote:
Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.

okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard


It's not really fair to people who are trying to roll wizard and actually do something with it.

Anyway, I think it'd be really hard for admins to produce a precedent for suiciding being disallowed but it could be established now.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Cobby » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:31 pm #448692

Suicidalpickles wrote:i think ive suicided like six times or so by now as wiz, so I'd be due for six wizard bans if it were bannable

usually i do it when im like feeling stumped on a gimmick or something instead of just boredly murderboning through with fireball spam like any other wizard, just because i manage to roll it so many times you can only do so much

can also agree on summon magic/guns/events being utterly shit with their round delay


Ahelp to get replaced and/or set your preferences off.

We don't retroactively enforce rules that we add so you're due for 0 bans.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Cobby » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:35 pm #448696

leibniz wrote:
Nilons wrote:
Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.

okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard


It's not really fair to people who are trying to roll wizard and actually do something with it.

Anyway, I think it'd be really hard for admins to produce a precedent for suiciding being disallowed but it could be established now.


Yeah I agree.

I think suiciding is fine if it didn't instantly end the round and that wasn't people's explicit intent to do so. If a rule would be generated, it should explicitly cover individuals who suicide with the intent to end the round for others.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Nilons » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:44 pm #448703

leibniz wrote:
Nilons wrote:
Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.

okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard


It's not really fair to people who are trying to roll wizard and actually do something with it.


fair actually
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:47 pm #448705

what if i want to roll wizard to suicide with the ban hammer
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Gamarr » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:50 pm #448707

Cobby wrote:Ahelp to get replaced and/or set your preferences off.


This, except it should take crewman from the station in replacement rather than ghosts. The crew playing were trying their roll for something and should have a priority over ghosts who are observing and tend to get the freebies as it is. This is especially needed for such rare things as wizard, which I personally haven't been in months upon months.

Nilons wrote:okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard


This is like reading WGW. Stop entertaining such stupidity to the detriment of everybody else.

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby NikNakFlak » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:02 pm #448780

Suiciding as wizard should secretively ban people from the role
that or headmins should randomly turn on mulligan and watch people get salty from suiciding but the round continuing
both would be pretty funny but unlikely to happen
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby sentient_loaf » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:33 am #448837

Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:13 am #448848

sentient_loaf wrote:Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.

You chose the wrong metaphor. Blob players who suicide are heros. Hell an admin gave me a blob token for it.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:16 am #448851

Blob is a separate issue since they have a tendency of spawning very late into the round, usually when the crew is trying to evacuate, and as such the crew are less able to deal with the Blob.

Claiming you suicide as a Wizard because you don't want to play the role, or can't think of something to do with it, seems like a very poor excuse. In the past people just turn off their Wiz pref, or more likely they tell the admins they don't wanna play the role and the admins then offer it to a ghosted player (of which there are usually a few lurking around).
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Malkraz » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:50 am #448866

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:55 am #448867

Malkraz wrote:Image

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby CreationPro » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:44 am #448875

Very good, wholesome meme, good job!
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Grazyn » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:31 am #448877

sentient_loaf wrote:Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.

Banning should be a punishment for doing something that negatively affects other players. Committing suicide at roundstart as wizard doesn't have a negative effect on anyone, because the round either restarts before you have time to do anything (so no "baww he ruined my project by ending the round") or admins mulligan it and then it just goes on as a regular round.

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Arianya » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:19 am #448883

Grazyn wrote:
sentient_loaf wrote:Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.

Banning should be a punishment for doing something that negatively affects other players. Committing suicide at roundstart as wizard doesn't have a negative effect on anyone, because the round either restarts before you have time to do anything (so no "baww he ruined my project by ending the round") or admins mulligan it and then it just goes on as a regular round.


For reference, we can't mulligan the round unless we know beforehand the wizard is going to do that, since the round ends almost immediately on their death (give or take 5 seconds or so).
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Grazyn » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:26 am #448884

Mulligan only makes traitors/changelings, right? So that's even better if it doesn't get mulliganed, the round restarts and it's a fresh start with fresh odds for whatever other interesting mode

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby WarbossLincoln » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:57 pm #448925

Can admins mess with player settings? If so instead of banning them when you see someone suicide as a wizard just turn their wizard preference off without telling them.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby SpaceManiac » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:49 pm #449037

WarbossLincoln wrote:Can admins mess with player settings? If so instead of banning them when you see someone suicide as a wizard just turn their wizard preference off without telling them.


This is a terrible idea. Changing someone's settings without telling them is inherently confusing and unexpected and basically a cardinal sin of UX.

Banning wizards for not murderboning would be pretty in-character though. Last time I rolled wizard and didn't murderbone the admins just spawned another wizard who did.

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:22 pm #449049

SpaceManiac wrote:Banning wizards for not murderboning would be pretty in-character though.

It's either antags can do whatever they want besides obvious bad stuff or antags must follow a strict set of guidelines that is basically the reverse version of HRP guidelines. Forced murderboning sounds just as lame as forced roleplay. Also, Friendly wizards may be boring but that is no fucking excuse to decide:

no you're playing antag wrong you fucking dumbass you're supposed to recall the shuttle 100 times while gibbing everyone are you fucking aut- dude, are you even listenin- yep you're banned

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Cobby » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:45 pm #449076

Grazyn wrote:Mulligan only makes traitors/changelings, right? So that's even better if it doesn't get mulliganed, the round restarts and it's a fresh start with fresh odds for whatever other interesting mode


Or you could just not suicide and we could actually play an interesting mode that isn't traitor/ling without having to hope RNG gives us a non-traitor/ling round in the future.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby SpaceManiac » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:40 am #449157

Ayy Lemoh wrote:
SpaceManiac wrote:Banning wizards for not murderboning would be pretty in-character though.

It's either antags can do whatever they want besides obvious bad stuff or antags must follow a strict set of guidelines that is basically the reverse version of HRP guidelines. Forced murderboning sounds just as lame as forced roleplay. Also, Friendly wizards may be boring but that is no fucking excuse to decide:

no you're playing antag wrong you fucking dumbass you're supposed to recall the shuttle 100 times while gibbing everyone are you fucking aut- dude, are you even listenin- yep you're banned


Honestly Wizard is so specced for death and destruction you basically have to murderbone if you don't want to be memed on for being "too stealthy"

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby subject217 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:37 am #449174

WarbossLincoln wrote:Can admins mess with player settings? If so instead of banning them when you see someone suicide as a wizard just turn their wizard preference off without telling them.

This would be adminbuse. Either make a rule about it or piss off. The idea of passive aggressively going behind a player's back because they did something you don't like but won't actually stand up to them is incredibly stupid.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Grazyn » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:59 am #449176

Isn't that what they do already with hidden notes?

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Arianya » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:06 am #449188

Wheres my NPC emote for

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Grazyn » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:12 am #449190

You're right, secret notes are much worse. You can still notice your preference is turned off and turn it back on, hidden notes you don't even know they're there and even if you know, you can't remove them

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby leibniz » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:13 am #449191

Anyway, the best way to communicate this would be a red prompt text they get when they spawn in telling them to ahelp if they dont want to be a wizard.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Grazyn » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:19 am #449192

leibniz wrote:Anyway, the best way to communicate this would be a red prompt text they get when they spawn in telling them to ahelp if they dont want to be a wizard.

I think they commit suicide specifically to avoid having to observe a wizard round, which can easily turn into friendly wizard aka extended or boring mulligan round

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby leibniz » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:54 am #449196

Grazyn wrote:
leibniz wrote:Anyway, the best way to communicate this would be a red prompt text they get when they spawn in telling them to ahelp if they dont want to be a wizard.

I think they commit suicide specifically to avoid having to observe a wizard round, which can easily turn into friendly wizard aka extended or boring mulligan round


Before, fine.
If it becomes disallowed, then they should opt out of the wizard roll.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby NikNakFlak » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:02 pm #449314

I think when wizards do interesting things it's fun
like artificer wizards
4 apprentice wizards
4 mindswap apprentice wizards
a murderbone wizard with a good loadout of spells like fireball repulse ei-nath who puts up a hearty fight before dying 20-30 minutes in (almost like a rev round in length)
rod meme wizards
a wizard who takes blink 5 times and spams it until they eventually get dunked

all funny and interesting to me honestly
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby subject217 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:15 am #449371

5x magic missile is quite simply the most fun you can have as a wizard. Bonus points if you convince admins to play the song

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Secret notes are only used for things that legitimately need to be secret, and it's just some words on your notes page. Completely different from modifying someone's ingame experience passive-aggressively because you don't like them.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby SaveVatznick » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:42 am #449390

Antags can do whatever they want, right?

Well, the most antagonistic thing that one of the most powerful antags we have can do is steal the role from other people and piss it away for no reason.

I think it's fine and I don't see why we should make some stupid rule telling people how to enjoy their game experience just because "suicide wizard"is a fad right now. Give it a month and people won't do it anymore.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby BeeSting12 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:48 am #449392

SaveVatznick wrote:Antags can do whatever they want, right?

Well, the most antagonistic thing that one of the most powerful antags we have can do is steal the role from other people and piss it away for no reason.

I think it's fine and I don't see why we should make some stupid rule telling people how to enjoy their game experience just because "suicide wizard"is a fad right now. Give it a month and people won't do it anymore.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Cobby » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:30 am #449410

Antags can't do whatever they want and this usually is restricted to OOC offenses like 4th wall breaking, metacomming, being creepy enough to weird people out OOCly, etc.

Suiciding with the intent to screw people OOCly, to me at least, is equivalent to those offenses even though the explicit action is IC.

I don't understand the fad argument, it shouldn't be okay at all. Waiting until the meme dies won't make it any more enjoyable for people if you do it once in a blue moon.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Karp » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:12 am #449422

BeeSting12 wrote:
SaveVatznick wrote:Antags can do whatever they want, right?

Well, the most antagonistic thing that one of the most powerful antags we have can do is steal the role from other people and piss it away for no reason.

I think it's fine and I don't see why we should make some stupid rule telling people how to enjoy their game experience just because "suicide wizard"is a fad right now. Give it a month and people won't do it anymore.
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby SaveVatznick » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:34 am #449428

Cobby wrote:Antags can't do whatever they want and this usually is restricted to OOC offenses like 4th wall breaking, metacomming, being creepy enough to weird people out OOCly, etc.

Suiciding with the intent to screw people OOCly, to me at least, is equivalent to those offenses even though the explicit action is IC.

I don't understand the fad argument, it shouldn't be okay at all. Waiting until the meme dies won't make it any more enjoyable for people if you do it once in a blue moon.


Ok, so maybe it's just people deciding to roleplay being a suicidal wizard that doesn't want to kill anyone. It just seems kinda dumb to have to make a rule about it when people are gonna stop anyways and it's funny for as long as it lasts. Once people get tired of it everyone will stop because it won't be entertaining anymore and it'll die down. If it happens once in a blue moon it'll be funny again, just like a fail rev round when a miner gets on the shuttle. The point of the game is to have fun.

The game corrects itself and I really don't think it'll be helpful to make a rule & bwoink people / antag ban them / turn off their preferences / other dumb shit. It'll just make admins look bad when them staying quiet will let the issue resolve all the same.

Do we need to have another cooked up poll about whether people think Suicide Wiz is bannable?
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby NoxVS » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:37 am #449439

Cobby wrote:Antags can't do whatever they want and this usually is restricted to OOC offenses like 4th wall breaking, metacomming, being creepy enough to weird people out OOCly, etc.

Suiciding with the intent to screw people OOCly, to me at least, is equivalent to those offenses even though the explicit action is IC.

So would I be incorrect in saying you believe antags who essentially end the round for people and force them to wait for the next one should be bannable? Since that's what the problem is here, suicide wizards force the round to end and is generally unfun. Right?

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Grazyn » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:54 am #449443

Why is forcing the round to end at roundstart unfun if you're not an antag, honest question

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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby Malkraz » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:27 am #449452

Being forced to alt-tab and wait while an aspie murderbones the entire station for 40 minutes is worse. Are you losers honestly complaining you had to "wait" 2 minutes for a better gamemode
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Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard

Postby leibniz » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 am #449461

Malkraz wrote: ..


Mode popularity has been polled among the players. The gamemode chances are set to respect the results of that. People who just instantly end rounds they don't like are just shitting on others who prefer a variety of gamemodes.
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