Repeated ghosting for failing antag rolls at roundstart

[mrpain]

I recently observed part of an ongoing problem: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2124 -tl;dr repeated ghosting at round start because MUH ANTAG.

The admins who were on at the time really couldnt do anything other than slap a note on the offending person's account. There is no "policy" that allows this sort of action to be punished. And it wasnt like they were taking up a valuable slot, like say, CE, it was just an assistant.

But it's getting to the point with certain people it's pretty much meta gaming if they do or do not go braindead after five or so minutes, because you literally KNOW that they are or are not an antag.

What do you guys think? Should we set up a specific blanket policy that covers this?

My opinion? No. We should not. We should not FORCE players to play in rounds that they cannot or do not want to play in- HOWEVER, I do think that in specific cases such as this one, when it's basically "OH BOY THERE HE IS, THERE HE GOES AGAIN....YEP ANNNND BRAINDEAD", admins should be encouraged to rule 0 some sort of antag ban on them for a specific amount of time, given the current roundstart "antag slots/chances" I think it should be a minimum of a week.

What do you all think?

[oranges]

In my opinion, people who roundstart ghost should be punished with some kind of timer cooldown.

Usually people who ghost legit are going somewhere so the cooldown doesn't affect them too much.

People who repeatedly ghost upon not getting antag will be punished.

[paprika]

Ghosting should really not be allowed for 10 minutes. They can just suicide, sure, but suicide has a big red message.

[lumipharon]

Sometimes if I'm playing before I go to bed or something, I'll go into one last round as an assistant to try get muh antag, and go to bed and stop wasting my life if I don't, not going to lie.

What IS bad however, is when I play sec, almost every round, atleast one sec officer (when we have any), and often as many as three, go brain dead within 5 minutes. It's even worse when they d it outside of the brig, where they get looted.
It seems (atleast to me) to happen with sec officers more then any other job, I don't know why, since sec can't be antags, but eh.

[dezzmont]

Sec can't be antags because trust is part of the role. I wouldn't mind it if detectives or wardens could be traitors because they are less the face of sec, but eh.

However if you roll traitor you will not be assigned to sec allegedy. It checks traitor status first, and if you are set to security high you will not be weighted as such if you roll tratior, so it shouldn't affect anything.

[Tsaricide]

Antag bans are needed for certain people who ghost multiple times in a row (lumi), admins have done it before with people like Dante.

[Wyzack]

I think something should be done. Still notice Misted Bait pulling this shit most rounds that he is in. When he does stay to play a nonantag round he is a greytiding little shithead

[lumipharon]

Sec can't be antags because trust is part of the role. I wouldn't mind it if detectives or wardens could be traitors because they are less the face of sec, but eh.

However if you roll traitor you will not be assigned to sec allegedy. It checks traitor status first, and if you are set to security high you will not be weighted as such if you roll tratior, so it shouldn't affect anything.

That's why I'm saying it makes no sense. I see loads of sec officer round start afk, even though if they did get antag, they wouldn't be a sec officer, so why would they roll sec officer at all? I guess they can be blob, but eh.

[Antonkr]

I did antag ban Misted and will be watching him from here on.

If you see any repeated precedents for this shit, make a ban request , and Ill deal with it. Although not disagreeing that written policy might be needed.

[Wyzack]

Antonkr based as fuck, thanks for dealing with that

[PKPenguin321]

I agree we should have a policy, but a very, very lenient policy. There are a lot of legitimate moments where a person has to disconnect shortly after the round starts and a very strict policy about this would lead to a lot of confusion and pointless bans.

[kosmos]

I don't know if it needs a policy/rule, a hardcoded way could be most efficient. Ghosting at round-start should trigger a 3 hour antag-ban. People ghosting to leave somewhere irl wouldn't be affected, but people not willing to play both sides of the game would be.

But if it's a rule of ghosting within 15 minutes of roundstart, people will wait 15 minutes and then ghost. Or suicide. And if applied to suicide, people would just throw themselves out of an airlock.

Woudl this work if it's applied to ghosting/suiciding/dying within 15 or so minutes of roundstart?

[Steelpoint]

I was under the assumption that if you select a protected role to play as (Sec or Cap) then you do not get a chance at playing a antag. Your job is selected before your antag status, so if you get a Sec role you lose out on getting a shot at antag.

(If that's still the case) That's one of the biggest things behind Sec population being lower than average is because if you play as Sec you surrender all chances of being able to play as a antagonist.

[Aurx]

Wait, since when was "You'll get antagbanned if you're clearly just here to fish for antag" NOT policy?

[omnitricks]

Some people have fun playing antag. If they aren't taking anything important e.g. heads, engineering for yellow gloves (maybe at least set up the sing before ghosting), science for toys they shouldn't be forced to play if they aren't having fun.

Playing a normal crewmember for the umpteenth time forced to play nice with other asshats, put up with shitsec and abusive heads or intolerable silicons just to get the rare free as a bird antag shouldn't be forced on people if they don't want to. Especially when policy protects said shitsec, abusive heads, asshats, silicons, etc. from any repercussion/satisfaction.

[lumipharon]

I was under the assumption that if you select a protected role to play as (Sec or Cap) then you do not get a chance at playing a antag. Your job is selected before your antag status, so if you get a Sec role you lose out on getting a shot at antag.

(If that's still the case) That's one of the biggest things behind Sec population being lower than average is because if you play as Sec you surrender all chances of being able to play as a antagonist.

Steel this got changed quite a while ago. I guess you missed the week of hilarious bugs, like malf assistants an ling HoS'.

[Steelpoint]

I know there was a brief time where the opposite was true, until it was reverted due to the insane bugs that are present hence we are back on the current system of if you chose Sec you don't get a antag roll.

[cedarbridge]

Some people have fun playing antag. If they aren't taking anything important e.g. heads, engineering for yellow gloves (maybe at least set up the sing before ghosting), science for toys they shouldn't be forced to play if they aren't having fun.

Playing a normal crewmember for the umpteenth time forced to play nice with other asshats, put up with shitsec and abusive heads or intolerable silicons just to get the rare free as a bird antag shouldn't be forced on people if they don't want to. Especially when policy protects said shitsec, abusive heads, asshats, silicons, etc. from any repercussion/satisfaction.

If the only way you can have fun playing SS13 is by taking people out of the round that aren't antags, you're not as essential to the server as you'd like to imagine. That's really what it comes down to. Players like antag roles because it lets them do whatever they want without restrictions and then ghost when they don't get their blank check license2griff. And that's exactly why people have a problem with it.

[RG4]

I tend to ghost if I keep getting repeat jobs over and over barring head jobs. IE
Engineer,Engineer,Engineer,Engineer,Engineer,Engineer, over and over or Lawyer,Lawyer,Lawyer,Medic,Medic,etc.

[iyaerP]

I really like the 3 hour timerlock.

Because there are a LOT of players who are really bad and don't contribute to their jobs, and are only rolling on the slots for the chance at murderboning. The best example would be Rob Ust with chemist before the pacid buff got reverted, where he was literally worthless as an actual chemist and only used the job for the space lube pacid spray bottles. There are plenty of other people who do similar things in other jobs. It is really frustrating to play miner and bring back a load of minerals, only to find that all of science is braindead because they didn't win the roll to let them go be Cuban Pete.

[omnitricks]

Some people have fun playing antag. If they aren't taking anything important e.g. heads, engineering for yellow gloves (maybe at least set up the sing before ghosting), science for toys they shouldn't be forced to play if they aren't having fun.

Playing a normal crewmember for the umpteenth time forced to play nice with other asshats, put up with shitsec and abusive heads or intolerable silicons just to get the rare free as a bird antag shouldn't be forced on people if they don't want to. Especially when policy protects said shitsec, abusive heads, asshats, silicons, etc. from any repercussion/satisfaction.

If the only way you can have fun playing SS13 is by taking people out of the round that aren't antags, you're not as essential to the server as you'd like to imagine. That's really what it comes down to. Players like antag roles because it lets them do whatever they want without restrictions and then ghost when they don't get their blank check license2griff. And that's exactly why people have a problem with it.

Yes because being arrested for the most stupid reasons (sometimes not being even in space law) and being abused by security for consecutive rounds with the admins not doing anything because its either not perma or an "IC issue" is fun. And then trying to get revenge on them by whatever means of revenge you can think of barring death still gets you banned because you are messing with security players for doing their "jobs". Security at that point is pretty much as essential as people only wanting to plan antags with the only difference being given protection for OOC considerations because "need our shitcurity players no matter what."

And then there are the retard heads randomly fucking you over with you still not being able to do anything for either the same reasons or "they can do whatever they want in their department.

Also the admins do not have a general consensus for escalation so yeah, there's that too if you end up killing the dick that has been harassing/attacking you the whole shift to make sure he cannot continue.

[mrpain]

I'm curious to see what headmins think of this.

[Vekter]

I was under the impression this was always a rule?

[cedarbridge]

Some people have fun playing antag. If they aren't taking anything important e.g. heads, engineering for yellow gloves (maybe at least set up the sing before ghosting), science for toys they shouldn't be forced to play if they aren't having fun.

Playing a normal crewmember for the umpteenth time forced to play nice with other asshats, put up with shitsec and abusive heads or intolerable silicons just to get the rare free as a bird antag shouldn't be forced on people if they don't want to. Especially when policy protects said shitsec, abusive heads, asshats, silicons, etc. from any repercussion/satisfaction.

If the only way you can have fun playing SS13 is by taking people out of the round that aren't antags, you're not as essential to the server as you'd like to imagine. That's really what it comes down to. Players like antag roles because it lets them do whatever they want without restrictions and then ghost when they don't get their blank check license2griff. And that's exactly why people have a problem with it.

Yes because being arrested for the most stupid reasons (sometimes not being even in space law) and being abused by security for consecutive rounds with the admins not doing anything because its either not perma or an "IC issue" is fun. And then trying to get revenge on them by whatever means of revenge you can think of barring death still gets you banned because you are messing with security players for doing their "jobs". Security at that point is pretty much as essential as people only wanting to plan antags with the only difference being given protection for OOC considerations because "need our shitcurity players no matter what."

And then there are the retard heads randomly fucking you over with you still not being able to do anything for either the same reasons or "they can do whatever they want in their department.

Also the admins do not have a general consensus for escalation so yeah, there's that too if you end up killing the dick that has been harassing/attacking you the whole shift to make sure he cannot continue.

Even with antag status, sec is still going to brig your ass for whatever they see fit. The CMO is still going to tell you to stop drugging the chef's food. The HoP is still not going to give you extra access And the only thing that changes in any of those listed cases is that you get to murder people when they make you sad. That's really it. If you want to run around and do whatever you want, make a sandbox. You're not entitled to a license to griff just because sec brigged you or the RD told you to stop looting the armory or whatever. If you're repeatedly getting brigged for shit round after round, it might be a good time to step back and consider why that really is. When one person is a jerk, they're an asshole. When the whole world is jerks, you're probably the asshole.

And what kind of warped mentality produces the idea that you're entitled to get "revenge" on a sec officer for brigging you for doing something you shouldn't be? If they're legit brigging you fnr, that's a problem the admins should be looking at. If you actually did something brig-worthy, stop blaming anyone but yourself.

[miggles]

Wait, since when was "You'll get antagbanned if you're clearly just here to fish for antag" NOT policy?

I was under the impression this was always a rule?

its not a rule

[Malkevin]

It's been an unwritten rule since Dante established presidense

[Alex Crimson]

It should be a rule. Its annoying when these players take up job slots only to go braindead within a few minutes/seconds. Their IDs get stolen, they deny other players the chance to play the job they took, they leave departments understaffed. Its shitty.

you know what else we need, but is off-topic? We need to remove the "spawn as random/Assistant is job preference is unavailable" options and have it take you back to the main screen instead. Or make those two options the non-default, and "return to main screen" the normal option. Getting a random job then going braindead is shitty too.

[youngbuckliontiger]

I really like the 3 hour timerlock.

Because there are a LOT of players who are really bad and don't contribute to their jobs, and are only rolling on the slots for the chance at murderboning. The best example would be Rob Ust with chemist before the pacid buff got reverted, where he was literally worthless as an actual chemist and only used the job for the space lube pacid spray bottles.

I never ghosted/brainded though when if im not antag when i use to play as chemist. I actually did my job by giving out unstable mutagen to botanist and sulf acid to roboticist sometimes when im not antag. The only thing that made me a bad chemist was that i did not know how to make the cyro mix. An example of a chemist who always suicide at round start is fortune ray. But not because he didn't roll antag but because he got that job even though he didnt want it.

I think that forcing people to do a certain job is not good because they are not gonna wanna do it and also if we do make it so it's only get assistant if you don't get certain job then the station would most likely be filled with assistants running around and annoying people. To be honest i'd rather have people suicide at round start for getting a job they didn't like than be an assistant and pretty much greytiding.